A question for those who believe in the rapture

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posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 06:31 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


The tract is not written by Pastor Reckart.




posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by truejew
 


Do you have anything not written by Reckart? He's a fraud who sells doctorate degrees for 1,300 dollars.



posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I think the real problem is that the tract, not written by Pastor Reckart, reveals the truth.



posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I think the real problem is that the tract, not written by Pastor Reckart, reveals the truth.


Do you have a link to this tract? Reckart is in no way credible on the matter. He sells unaccredited doctorate degrees to people for 1,300 dollars.



posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 06:52 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Let's stay on topic.



posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 07:01 AM
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However, if you really prefer another link...

Rapture & Trinity



posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 07:01 AM
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Double post
edit on 23-4-2013 by truejew because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Let's stay on topic.


Why is it you demand on-topic posts when you get pinned into a corner for something you've stated, yet any other time you willfully try and steer virtually every thread to the Trinity VS Oneness doctrine debate?
edit on 23-4-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 09:12 AM
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Those who cherry pick scripture to support their beliefs can also tend to cherry pick arguments.



posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 11:16 AM
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It is actually you two who have been going off topic.



posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Dear jmdewey60,



If all that was left were bad people, it would not be a tribulation, but a fair judgment. It has to be for one reason, in my estimation, to teach such a thing, and that would be to promote the ideology of Dispensationalism. Christians are conveniently removed from the world, according to this grand scheme, which leaves the Jews who rejected Jesus, but apparently see Jesus up in the sky when the rapture happens. From that point, on, then this theory resets history back, as if Jesus never existed or there was a such thing as Christianity, and the ancient Israel of the Old Testament has a do-over but without having to accept a loving and kind Jesus, but a new version of a Messiah who is completely different and is a bloody killer who goes to war and enslaves the world to force tribute from the 'nations' to be given to him to enrich the Jewish kingdom in Palestine.


I have asked the same thing in a slightly different manner. The answer I have been given (and I know this is taught in some Christian Colleges) is that after the tribulation, the 144,000 male, virgin decedents of the Israelites will be converted to Christianity and evangelize the world. The belief is that after the current Christians are raptured, there is a new group of converts.


What makes you think the 144000 is all male? They are not if the story of the 144000 are a true description of what is happening on earth right now but I wonder if 144000 is not a to little number. And if the 144000 are not describing what is happening now days then from my point of view why should I care what it says. I am only interested in it since it might be a piece of a bigger puzzle i haven't figured out yet. And they are spiritual virgins not literal virgins. They will be of god church not mans and will not bow to religion of man.

A lot of people call themselves Christians but are not. I know atheists that are true Christians by their actions.



posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Dear jmdewey60,



If all that was left were bad people, it would not be a tribulation, but a fair judgment. It has to be for one reason, in my estimation, to teach such a thing, and that would be to promote the ideology of Dispensationalism. Christians are conveniently removed from the world, according to this grand scheme, which leaves the Jews who rejected Jesus, but apparently see Jesus up in the sky when the rapture happens. From that point, on, then this theory resets history back, as if Jesus never existed or there was a such thing as Christianity, and the ancient Israel of the Old Testament has a do-over but without having to accept a loving and kind Jesus, but a new version of a Messiah who is completely different and is a bloody killer who goes to war and enslaves the world to force tribute from the 'nations' to be given to him to enrich the Jewish kingdom in Palestine.


I have asked the same thing in a slightly different manner. The answer I have been given (and I know this is taught in some Christian Colleges) is that after the tribulation, the 144,000 male, virgin decedents of the Israelites will be converted to Christianity and evangelize the world. The belief is that after the current Christians are raptured, there is a new group of converts.


What makes you think the 144000 is all male? They are not if the story of the 144000 are a true description of what is happening on earth right now but I wonder if 144000 is not a to little number. And if the 144000 are not describing what is happening now days then from my point of view why should I care what it says. I am only interested in it since it might be a piece of a bigger puzzle i haven't figured out yet. And they are spiritual virgins not literal virgins. They will be of god church not mans and will not bow to religion of man.

A lot of people call themselves Christians but are not. I know atheists that are true Christians by their actions.


Hi Little!

The 144,000 virgins, according to Revelations 14, are males who had never been "defiled with women", unless they are lesbians!


14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.



posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


Dear DelayedChristmas,



Throughout studying the history of church, I have noticed that all parties, whether they are for or against a certain dogma, will vehemently defend their position, whether it is right, wrong, or both, to the detriment of spiritual maturity. No one ever opens up the possibility of being wrong...


I have been talking to two Christians who have very firm beliefs on a pre-tribulation rapture. As I said in my OP, I don't have an strong opinion and don't think it matters. To a large extent, I am asking at what point in time, and if they are correct it would never happen; but, pre-tribulation believers might accept that they were wrong.


Would you care to ask those two about how they came to their conclusion?



posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by LittleByLittle
 


Dear LittleByLittle,



What makes you think the 144000 is all male? They are not if the story of the 144000 are a true description of what is happening on earth right now but I wonder if 144000 is not a to little number. And if the 144000 are not describing what is happening now days then from my point of view why should I care what it says. I am only interested in it since it might be a piece of a bigger puzzle i haven't figured out yet. And they are spiritual virgins not literal virgins. They will be of god church not mans and will not bow to religion of man.


The answer to your question is because that is what it says, all male and not having been with a woman. In either case, I was promoting it as the truth, I was giving an answer that had been given to me in response to jmdewey60.



posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


Dear DelayedChristmas,

I have asked them and one of them graduated from a very famous Christian University. I don't seek to promote their views or anyone else's. I am really trying to see how a pre-tribulationist would answer the question in my OP, which really is "How would they know if they were wrong".



posted on Apr, 23 2013 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


Male Virgins? 144000. Not sure there are enough Catholic alterboy/priests to Bishop to Cardinal to Popified that could fullfill this proclaimation; are you sure you are not including the de-sexed de-nuded NUNNERY constituant? Even if the Jesuits were included you will not make that number.

edit on 23-4-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2013 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 

If the rapture occurred tomorrow, how would you know? Calling yourself a Christian does not guarantee that you are. Believing Jesus was real or the savior does not get you in by itself. It says that he will turn many away that call him by name and tell them that he never knew them because they did not care for others, did not feed the poor and did not visit those in prison. Heck, even the demons know his name and who he is; but, they don't get salvation.
I think you are asking how someone who believes in a pre-trib rapture would "know" that they were going to be in it.
This is why the "cult" word comes up in my posts when discussing these things.
It is a cult because it is a whole belief system that the participants accept whole. They don't just believe that there is a rapture, they believe in the rapture, where accepting this system guarantees that they are included in the rapture by basically joining the cult, that if you believe in it and that you meet the requirement for it, of being saved by believing that you are, then they will be in the rapture.
According to this system, people who only think they will be saved because they live a righteous life, and do not believe in the rapture, will not be raptured.
edit on 24-4-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2013 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by truejew
It is actually you two who have been going off topic.


Where??



posted on Apr, 24 2013 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing
reply to post by windword
 


Male Virgins? 144000. Not sure there are enough Catholic alterboy/priests to Bishop to Cardinal to Popified that could fullfill this proclaimation; are you sure you are not including the de-sexed de-nuded NUNNERY constituant? Even if the Jesuits were included you will not make that number.

What are you talking about? The 144,000 virgins are Jews, not Catholics.



posted on Apr, 24 2013 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


Dear DelayedChristmas,

I have asked them and one of them graduated from a very famous Christian University. I don't seek to promote their views or anyone else's. I am really trying to see how a pre-tribulationist would answer the question in my OP, which really is "How would they know if they were wrong".


How would pre-tribbers know it they are wrong?

It sounds like a trick question. Wouldn't the start of the great tribulation indicate that?





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