Concept of God in Islam

Originally posted by maes2
reply to post by MrSpiderMonkey

 

sorry man but Bahai is not a religion. it is one of two sects made by colonialists in Islam. Bahaism and Wahabism are two sects of Islam and they are made by Colonialists (eg. kingdom of England). Wahabism (radical salafism) is a radical, dangerous ideology that is made for colonialist purposes among Sunnie muslims in order to have influence on arab countries of the middle east. the situation in Syria is an example of what wahabism and radical salafism is doing in favor of colonialists and they are doing a Jihad against other muslims and christians for the sake of Israel ! just think why Egypt revoluted without war but Syria is a blood bath of muslims !
and Bahaism may look like a peaceful ideology but it is a soft power for colonialists to do their purposes among Shia muslims and mostly Iran.
what you mentioned about Bahai's belief regarding God, is just a copy of true Islam's viewpoint about God.
Islam is a victim, exactly like other monotheistic religions.
people, do not get me wrong, I can prove my words one by one. but yes we all have one God.

I agree with all your views and good to see that there are others who can really see what is happening. Thanks for the post brother.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by logical7

 

Furthermore, He is the only one deserving of any worship and the ultimate purpose of all creation is to submit to Him.

Muslims believe that He created humankind with a simple purpose – to worship Him.

you may have to read the whole article to respond better.

Nah, I've read enough. I am now going to take over the world and have everyone submit to me. I will make everyone worship me. Tell me, does that make me a self-centered, self-serving megalomaniac?

I think it does.

Sk0rpie answered you, i had a similar reply and i'l say this,

try creating a tiny moth and then try telling that moth whats good for it and whats not and that it should listen to you(not go too close to the burning candle) for its own good,
and the moth shows the middle finger to you and calls you "self-centred, self-serving megalomaniac!!"

How does that feel?

The moth ultimately burns its wings and realises that it would have been better to obey Jiggerj!

Originally posted by Metallicus
reply to post by logical7

 

It is amazing how close the precepts of Islam and Judaism really are when you compare them. Your post helps us all understand how much Jews and Muslims really do have in common.

Shalom

Salam,
i am guessing that you are Jewish, i had a long time wish to interact with a Jew and discuss.
Yes we have the same God, hmm.. that does not sound correct, i rather say everyone has that One God and Jewish and Muslims have similar idea of Him.
I don't know if you are aware that prophet Muhammad pbuh is mentioned in the Torah and thats the reason Jewish tribes and learned rabbis settled near Yatrib(Medina) before the coming of prophet as they expected the coming of a new prophet.

reply to post by logical7

God is all there is.
There is nothing but God.
This moment of 'presence' is the 'presence of the lord'.
Nothing appears to exist outside this moment of 'presence' - yet man believes there is more.
The search outside of presence is what makes life hard - man seeks to secure his own existence because he does not realize that this is eternal.

God is presence. There is only presence - it is one.
The happening that happens in presence as presence is just happening as one - no one is doing it because in reality there is no one - there is only God and God is doing it all.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Nah, I've read enough. I am now going to take over the world and have everyone submit to me. I will make everyone worship me. Tell me, does that make me a self-centered, self-serving megalomaniac?
I think it does.

God did not "take over the world". He created it along with everything else in the first place.

IF YOU CAN... go ahead, create your own universe from nothing using your own powers... and create your own life forms and establish your power over them.Then I guess you will have every right to be worshiped by your creation.

Are you really that religiously orientated that you can totally miss the point of my statement? It's not about having the right to be worshiped, it's about having that sole purpose in mind when creating living things. That is what the writings imply. Islam's God: I am going to create things to worship me. That's sick.

reply to post by logical7

try creating a tiny moth and then try telling that moth whats good for it and whats not and that it should listen to you(not go too close to the burning candle) for its own good, and the moth shows the middle finger to you and calls you "self-centred, self-serving megalomaniac!!" How does that feel? The moth ultimately burns its wings and realises that it would have been better to obey Jiggerj!

No thanks. Apparently your god does this. I'd create creatures that would find things out for themselves. Why would I want to create puppets on a string for me to mess with? But, that's beside the point.

The writings I focused on clearly state that this god created us to worship him - THAT was his purpose. And THAT is horse-puckey at its finest.

reply to post by jiggerj

The writings I focused on clearly state that this god created us to worship him - THAT was his purpose.

yes, but if you think worship means singing his praises all day or just praying 5 times a day then its a very shallow idea of worship.
The idea of Worship in Islam is being the best possible person. Realising our potentials and working to make them real. Being a good son/daughter, a good sibling, a good spouse, a good father/mother and expecting the reward for it from Allah not from the people we interacted. They may or may not acknowledge our goodness or show gratitude but it does not matter as it was done as a worship to Allah.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by jiggerj

 

The writings I focused on clearly state that this god created us to worship him - THAT was his purpose.

yes, but if you think worship means singing his praises all day or just praying 5 times a day then its a very shallow idea of worship.
The idea of Worship in Islam is being the best possible person. Realising our potentials and working to make them real. Being a good son/daughter, a good sibling, a good spouse, a good father/mother and expecting the reward for it from Allah not from the people we interacted. They may or may not acknowledge our goodness or show gratitude but it does not matter as it was done as a worship to Allah.

edit on 20-4-2013 by logical7 because: (no reason given)

Your definition of worship is the same definition for being a good member of society and a responsible member of the human race. So, we worship society and the human race? No, that is not worship. It's being a part of the solution to the woes of the world, and not being a part of the problem. Worship is getting on your knees before someone or thing who requires you to get on your knees.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by BlueMule

 

To say 'God is One' is to say the same thing. It doesn't mean that your God is the only real God and that all others are phonies. It means that all the Gods of all the religions that have ever been and ever will be are merely masks of God. Costumes of God. Symbolic, poetic forms. Including yours.

There is only one real God.

That's not what 'God is One' means. It means that unity with God can be achieved no matter how one conceives of God, no matter which religion one practices.

As soon as God is given a costume/symbol/form, its limiting Him and that is not how it should be done.

For your culture, that's fine.

But God likes to take different forms and names in different cultures, and all the different forms in world religion and myth point to the same formlessness. It's not we who give symbolic forms. It is Her that takes them. Otherwise, She wouldn't be infinite. She would be limited.

Even using the masculine pronoun is a limit because of language.

Then it should be easy for Muslims to switch to the feminine pronoun, right?

reply to post by jiggerj

Worship is getting on your knees before someone or thing who requires you to get on your knees.

whoever or whatever is most important for you is your god, a person? Self? Money?
All actions to please/get that god is worship.

So Jiggerj whom/what you worship?

reply to post by BlueMule

But God likes to take different forms and names in different cultures, and all the different forms in world religion and myth point to the same formlessness.

God likes?? Now thats just assumption. Isnt it?
Its not worth debating. So answer me this, do you agree that people may invent gods according to their limited understandings and desires?

Then it should be easy for Muslims to
switch to the feminine pronoun, right?

sure, Qur'an actually uses a royal pronoun 'WE'. it can be used for male and female right?(although i don't know arabic pronouns enough to say anything with authority and Allah knows best)

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by BlueMule

 

But God likes to take different forms and names in different cultures, and all the different forms in world religion and myth point to the same formlessness.

God likes?? Now thats just assumpting. Isnt it?

Whether God likes it or not that's what She does. The comparative fields are the proof.

God puts on and takes off costumes as religions come and go. As a result, all religions share a heritage. That's what 'God is One' means.

So answer me this, do you agree that people may invent gods according to their limited understandings and desires?

No. As Rumi said, God gives each person their own way of approaching God and conceiving of God. God gives each person a way. People don't have the free-will or the power to invent gods or symbolic forms. We are just guesthouses.

Oh, people might think that they are the causal agent. People might think they are the source of all inspiration and inventiveness. But they aren't.

sure, Qur'an actually uses a royal pronoun 'WE'. it can be used for male and female right?(although i don't know arabic pronouns enough to say anything with authority and Allah knows best)

Well, when you convince Muslims en masse to start using the feminine pronoun when they refer to Allah, then I will believe that they aren't trapped by bias. That's fair, isn't it?

reply to post by BlueMule

Whether God likes it or not that's what She does.

thats too certain of you.

The comparative fields are the proof.

comparative field is a field of study not a proof of nature of God.

God puts on and takes off costumes as religions come and go. As a result, all religions share a heritage. That's what 'God is One' means.

religions may have similarities but that does not change the fact that humans have the power to make a stone as god and believe it and start a cult but that does not make the stone a form of God.

People don't have
the free-will or the power to invent
gods or symbolic forms. We are just guesthouses.

i have seen the contrary. A grandfather dies, family makes his image/statue and few generations later he is being worshipped as family god!
You are confusing the difference in understanding of people about God and false gods created by people.

Allah says, "I am to my servant as he/she thinks i am"

Oh, people might think that they are
the causal agent. People might think
they are the source of all inspiration
and inventiveness. But they aren't.

really? So if i start a cult and make mickey mouse as god then it was God who wanted to be worshipped in form of a cartoon?

Well, when you convince Muslims en
masse to start using the feminine
pronoun when they refer to Allah,
then I will believe that they aren't
trapped by bias. That's fair, isn't it?

no its not fair, if all use feminine pronoun the the bias will just shift towards the other side.
It doesn't matter, muslims know better, they don't imagine an anthropomorphic God.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Worship is getting on your knees before someone or thing who requires you to get on your knees.

whoever or whatever is most important for you is your god, a person? Self? Money?
All actions to please/get that god is worship.

So Jiggerj what do you worship?

Substantiated, verifiable, repeatable truth.

reply to post by jiggerj

Substantiated, verifiable, repeatable truth.

thats good! we can work with it.

do you agree on the truth that you did not create yourself?

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Substantiated, verifiable, repeatable truth.

thats good! we can work with it.

do you agree on the truth that you did not create yourself?

Agree, but let's not go there. I will say, my mother and father created me. You will ask, who created them. And we will go all the way back to the formation of the first living cell, upon which nobody knows how it formed. One thing's for certain though, it wasn't a biblical god.

reply to post by jiggerj

Agree, but let's not go there. I will say, my mother and father created me. You will ask, who created them. And we will go all the way back to the formation of the first living cell, upon which nobody knows how it formed. One thing's for certain though, it wasn't a biblical god.

certain? No Jiggerj, you are drifting from your accepted god, 'Truth'

do you know law of entropy?
Disorder will increase if things are left to themselves. Do you agree?

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Agree, but let's not go there. I will say, my mother and father created me. You will ask, who created them. And we will go all the way back to the formation of the first living cell, upon which nobody knows how it formed. One thing's for certain though, it wasn't a biblical god.

certain? No Jiggerj, you are drifting from your accepted god, 'Truth'

do you know law of entropy?
Disorder will increase if things are left to themselves. Do you agree?

Honestly, at some point you are going to jump from rational thought to 'TA-DA a biblical God did it' with no logical connection whatsoever. So, let's just stop. Have a good day.

Originally posted by logical7

Whether God likes it or not that's what She does.

thats too certain of you.

Are you certain?

comparative field is a field of study not a proof of nature of God.

Are you certain?

religions may have similarities but that does not change the fact that humans have the power to make a stone as god and believe it and start a cult but that does not make the stone a form of God.

Are you certain?

i have seen the contrary. A grandfather dies, family makes his image/statue and few generations later he is being worshipped as family god!
You are confusing the difference in understanding of people about God and false gods created by people.

Are you certain?

Allah says, "I am to my servant as he/she thinks i am"

Are you certain?

So if i start a cult and make mickey mouse as god then it was God who wanted to be worshipped in form of a cartoon?

Possibly. Although, I think your concept of worship might be a bit narrow.

If you were inspired to start a "cult" of Mickey Mouse, then due to the inspiration your "cult" would bear the same skeletal structure as any other mythology or religion. Therefore it would be amenable to analysis by the comparative fields, and analysis would reveal the formless hand of God behind the culturally and temporally bound poetic forms.

no its not fair, if all use feminine pronoun the the bias will just shift towards the other side.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

It doesn't matter, muslims know better, they don't imagine an anthropomorphic God.

Prove it. Begin a movement that proves to the world that Muslims know better. Have them switch to the feminine pronoun. If they can do that without social upheaval, then they will prove they are not trapped in pairs of opposites- stuck in metaphors.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by jiggerj

 

The writings I focused on clearly state that this god created us to worship him - THAT was his purpose.

yes, but if you think worship means singing his praises all day or just praying 5 times a day then its a very shallow idea of worship.
The idea of Worship in Islam is being the best possible person. Realising our potentials and working to make them real. Being a good son/daughter, a good sibling, a good spouse, a good father/mother and expecting the reward for it from Allah not from the people we interacted. They may or may not acknowledge our goodness or show gratitude but it does not matter as it was done as a worship to Allah.

edit on 20-4-2013 by logical7 because: (no reason given)

Your definition of worship is the same definition for being a good member of society and a responsible member of the human race. So, we worship society and the human race? No, that is not worship. It's being a part of the solution to the woes of the world, and not being a part of the problem. Worship is getting on your knees before someone or thing who requires you to get on your knees.

I think the translate into english from ibadati to worship that make the meaning become more shallow. Worship can sounds like a fans idolized their idol. Ibadat in wide range mean do as we should or in easy way like work as it should.
Is it like when you make a printer, and what you want is the printer to print. To print for a printer is a worship to you as its creator. Like that doesnt mean you are egomaniac.