major explosion reported at fertilizer plant near Waco, TX

If coincidences are just coincidences, why do they feel so contrived?

I tried to post this once, and it didnt work, so im going to give everyone the best TLDR version of my post that I can.

1) I have experience with this because I live in an area of Texas situated between a massive oil refinery, two fertilizer plants, and a carbon black refining facility, all of which are possible devastating explosions waiting to happen.

2) as an IT contractor for these plants, I am well versed in their safety measures and possible risks of the job I do.

and now - the big part

3) Something like this happening is not completely out there for Texas. it's actually quite common, if not on this scale. It likely comes down to someone not doing their job and creating a safety issue. These plants are run in such a fashion that even one person not doing their job could cause the entire plant to just melt down, or explode in this case.

Dont look for a conspiracy in this one, it's such a common occurence, and this type of plant could have easily exploded in the manner it did without any outside assistance.

Imagine of this does turn out to be a terriost attack, it will be on the news 24/7 for weeks like 9/11...

Originally posted by Rabbit806
Dont look for a conspiracy in this one, it's such a common occurence, and this type of plant could have easily exploded in the manner it did without any outside assistance.

I pretty much agree with you, however, the fact that the media will use it to amplify other events is in itself a conspiracy. No news is bad news. This might lead some to draw further conclusions, because we all know the news is scripted to a large extent. No matter the cause, even if it is some lazy funt not doing his job, it will serve a purpose.

Originally posted by Rabbit806


Dont look for a conspiracy in this one, it's such a common occurence, and this type of plant could have easily exploded in the manner it did without any outside assistance.

You are well versed in your areas of expertise but how much of an expert are you on this particular plants security measures? Not saying you are wrong but to say ''don't look for a conspiracy here'' is a little bit premature.
Unless you believe there was a fire which was put out and then started again. Are FD's that bad? do they commonly make that mistake?

and now the looting has started. So sad :-(

Sky News

Originally posted by cosmicpixie
On Nation radio news here in the UK, 10 m ago they said investigators there were treating it as a "crime scene".......

I've seen that on BBC and Sky too, but it was also said that this is usual, and they have to rule out it being a deliberate act before asserting that it was an accident. I would say that's especially important now given the timing and that the perpetrators of the Boston incident have not been captured.

Originally posted by dashdespatch
it is possible that the fire was started on purpose to lure in the emergency services then once once they were on the scene the terrorists detonated the bomb to maximise casualties

You could be right there....

over the last couple months there's been those incidents involving 'Firemen' being called out on purpose to an incident only to get fired upon... maybe there's some group/s over there organizing these incidents!!

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha
and now the looting has started. So sad :-(

Sky News

I am getting tired of reading that anhydrous ammonia is widely used as a fertilizer.

Anhydrous ammonia is a gas at room temperature. It is also corrosive.

Here are the health effects:

Symptoms include burning of the eyes, nose, and throat after breathing even small amounts. With higher doses, coughing or choking may occur. Exposure to high levels of anhydrous ammonia can cause death from a swollen throat or from chemical burns to the lungs.

ndhealth.gov
It blinds you and can kill you very easily.
Is there anyone out there that thinks that a farmer applies this product to his fields???

This is the problem with the media, they apparently do think that a farmer would apply this to a field as fertilizer, they tell us that it is widely used as fertilizer.

Ammonia is a component of agricultural fertilizer. Anhydrous ammonia is not an agricultural fertilizer.

Ester of wood rosin is a component of some soft drinks.... ester of wood rosin is not a soft drink.

Originally posted by Taggart
Unless you believe there was a fire which was put out and then started again. Are FD's that bad? do they commonly make that mistake?

Fires restarting in hot spots are very common. It can be difficult to completely put out a fire, particularly when there's a variety of chemicals (with different flash points and different burn properties) involved.

In addition, the plant did not have a "do this in case of fire" plan filed, according to sources. They had a plan for gas leaks but not for fires. The first responders were going into a dangerous situation with little information on their side.

I'm nearly certain this isn't an "attack".

Having said that, does anyone else feel like this is a kick in the groin considering the recent events in Boston?

Originally posted by cosmicpixie
On Nation radio news here in the UK, 10 m ago they said investigators there were treating it as a "crime scene".......

Because it is a 'crime scene' because it is an ongoing investigation. Only when the investigation is finished, then the 'crime scene' label is removed.

Originally posted by glitched
2 Byrd - Super Mod

Thanks for the info.. I was heading more toward the SOP's / regulations / legislation regarding such a facility in such a situation... to quote you - 'they had no plan/s in dealing with such a fire' and 'Town Hall plans were out of date' i don't mean to be a smart arse but can you source that or is that a personal opinion? Self insured or otherwise would require some form of emergency evac prep/ plan to be in place.. given the of magnitude likelihood and possibility of something/anything triggering such a disaster...

Slate magazine is one of many sources, though I read it first in the Dallas Morning News. Having worked with a municipal government to do data retrieval on these fire plans (about 30 years ago), the report from Dallas Morning News says in part:

The plant, according to WFAA, was fined $2,300 by the EPA in 2006 for failing to have a risk management assessment that met federal standards (that risk assessment is a different report from the one quoted above, according to both sources). West Fertilizer Co. submitted plans to the agency later that year that included, among other things, daily inspections, a barrier to prevent vehicles from colliding with their ammonia tanks, and a water spray system in case of a leak. The plant hadn't been fined since then, according to reports.

It makes me think that they rushed a plan into place -- something that looked good and would take the EPA off their backs.

They'd had problems with the EPA before this, though. Wikipedia article cites:

Adair received an air quality permit as a fertilizer mixing and storage facilty from the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality in December 2006, issued after Adair was investigated for failure to secure a permit, when a neighbor complained about an ammonia smell coming from the plant.

Originally posted by dashdespatch
it is possible that the fire was started on purpose to lure in the emergency services then once once they were on the scene the terrorists detonated the bomb to maximise casualties

It is being reported that five, possibly six, firefighters have been killed along with two EMS workers.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Taggart
Unless you believe there was a fire which was put out and then started again. Are FD's that bad? do they commonly make that mistake?

Fires restarting in hot spots are very common. It can be difficult to completely put out a fire, particularly when there's a variety of chemicals (with different flash points and different burn properties) involved.

In addition, the plant did not have a "do this in case of fire" plan filed, according to sources. They had a plan for gas leaks but not for fires. The first responders were going into a dangerous situation with little information on their side.

Thanks for the reply.

If you are correct about having no fire plan it does beg the question why considering the chemicals and amount involved. I understand that a simple mechanical failure or fire in the wrong place could easy get out of hand quick and maybe that is all it is that would be a simple horrible tragedy.

All round bad deal.

EDIT - Thanks more the info above

suspicious package on a dock in Tampa Bay, I just read on the skynews updates section.

Also a suspicious substance has been found at a US Naval base!!

Look gang I realize this is a CT site, and everyone tends to lean that way, however, I would like to point out that West TX is a tiny little Czech farming community that has deep roots in Texas. It only has 2800 people and most people know it for the kolaches you pick up driving up and down I-35 or Westfest. Land all around it is mostly used for farming. Waco is the biggest town south of it, and the next town north is Abbott (which is another very small farming community, and just north of that Hillsbouro TX. Which is another farming community, with an outlet mall, and a stop off for lunch type of place while traveling. Then the i-35 split and you go either west on up to Ft Worth, or east and that takes you to Dallas.

The firefighters that West has are all volunteer, so when the call came out about the fire, and then the chemical smell, surrounding areas raced to help. As we know, they were dealing with a very combustible material. They started to evac people out, due to the nature of this fire. Thankfully, they did, I am pretty sure that helped to save lives.

I really think that this was a series of very unfortunate events that led to a massive disaster. And all of Central Texas could use some kind thoughts that anyone could spare. If you would like, I bet you could donate to the American Red Cross and earmark the funds for West TX. I know they would greatly appriciate it.

I am really impressed the way that Waco (where I live) and the entire Central Texas communites have jumped into action to help.

Now about the Branch Davidians.. I have to be honest, some in Waco get a wee bit jumpy around the anniversary, but we don't freak out.

I have lived in Waco since 1995 and each and every time we would ask about where and such, nobody would know exactly where it was located. I did find out around 2002'ish due to watching a documentary called "Rulers of the World" (I think that is the name) and realized I passed the exit many times on i-35. No I have never been, I don't want to go, but many have said the memorial has an very odd feel to it. As in very spooky and unnerving.

I do live down the street from the orginal church that the branch davidians broke off from. (easy research online) and only when David Koresh came into play, then things got really weird and turned horrificly tragic.

I would like to also point out, that yes, I do realize this is a CT site, and that talking about this in the abstract is very easy to do.. but these are real peoples lives we are discussing, which their lives will never be the same again. A small community will rebuild, but will forever carry the scars of last nights explosion.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
suspicious package on a dock in Tampa Bay, I just read on the skynews updates section.

Also a suspicious substance has been found at a US Naval base!!

edit on 18-4-2013 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist because: (no reason given)

I haven't heard anything about any naval base stuff, but as far as what's at the Port of Tampa, one of our local stations has this to say about it:

Shortly after 9 a.m., deputies say a specially-trained K-9 alerted to an item on the Terminal 3 dock near a Royal Caribbean cruise ship. A second K-9 was brought in and also alerted to the same item, according to deputies.

"At this time, we just know that it was a cargo pallet that was to be loaded onto the Royal Caribbean cruise ship that was supposed to leave today around 4:30 in the afternoon,” said Cristal Bermudez-Nunez, Hillsborough Sheriff's Office, “but we're unsure as to what else was in that pallet. That's something that we're still trying to confirm at this time."

www.baynews9.com...

And over 4 hours later, they're still evaluating the item, which to me, sounds more like trying to figure out what kind of trace material/residue the dogs hit on, because if it was a package of some kind, you'd think it'd be detonated by now. In other words, this is probably not a big deal. I could be wrong and it could be that they're removing items from the pallet meticulously & haven't come across the 'hot' object the dogs hit on, but still, it feels more like trace contamination like we see with people in airports setting off the sniffers because of some home chemical they touched before leaving the house or something.

I feel really bad for all the people in West that lost their lives, homes, pets, jobs. It's got to be like the end of the world for a small town like that

Originally posted by Staroth
If coincidences are just coincidences, why do they feel so contrived?

Because you've been coming to this website for too long.