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This is why we "debunk" chemtrails.

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posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 03:02 PM
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Looking at this picture, you can see a persistent contrail and a new one being formed. They might be a different altitudes, and probably are, but it's very difficult to tell by just a picture. What is impossible to tell, is what kinds of chemicals are in the persistent contrail. Even if you were looking at this live and in person, you could not tell the altitude or the chemical makeup.

Nobody is saying that chemtrails could not exist. Nobody is saying you have to trust anyone, least of all the government. What is being said, time, after time, after time, is that nobody, not even Chuck Norris, can tell if what you are seeing is a contrail or a chemtrail. Since everyone knows that contrails can persist for hours, and they look just like the contrails that have existed since flight started, we must assume they are contrail until proven otherwise.

If anyone tells you they can spot a chemtrail just by "looking at it" I would be very concerned about their mental stability.




posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 03:16 PM
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You dont need any excuses to debunk things. Only reason you need is an intrest in truth. Disinfo "agents" such as chemtrail spammers always are seeing "paid shills" and other nonsense because they think it boosts their ego.
edit on 16/4/2013 by PsykoOps because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by PsykoOps
 


Just want to make it clear that there are other reasons to do this than "it's my job and I get paid from the gubbament to do this." Seeing kids being afraid of clouds is just sad.



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 03:22 PM
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Just look at Gnarly Carly on Facebook, that psycho is reason enough.



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 03:32 PM
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Seeing kids afraid of clouds is one thing. Seeing grown ups afraid of clouds is quite another


star/flag



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 03:34 PM
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Yes, let's not question anything, ever....unless we have absolute proof, which comes from a government or other "official" source. Because we're not floating in the air, with testing equipment, we must just accept weird stripes in the sky as ice crystals and not go any further.

Despite any testing proof from what floats down from these things onto the ground, vegetation, housing or people....despite the Government Accounting Office's own records showing massive amount of military chaff being purchased and used every single fricking year, and despite the Department of Naval Research's own studies which show that military chaff, upon degredation, is harmful to humans and animals, we must just accept that these are normal chemtrails and go about our happy, carefree lives. Don't listen to the weather casters which have to explain that radar returns on doppler aren't rain, but massive amounts of chaff.

I am so DONE with this argument. I've provided proof, government documents, etc., and it is NEVER enough. So be it.

My apologies for flaming your post. This is an old argument, with two different camps who will never see a truce. I just get so bloody sick of posters intimating that anybody who is suspicious is mentally ill. I could just as easily say that your disinterest in environmental pollution is a sign of mental illness, via obstinate denial and refusal to admit that there is crap in our air and soil which is totally unnatural and can harm us.



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by FissionSurplus
 


Sorry you see it that way. I see it as anyone who will tell you they can tell a chemtrail from a contrail is quite obviously nuts. But someone who is willing to find proof that what makes up that line in the sky is more than just ice crystals is worthy of respect and attention.

Sadly, patents, and research papers on proposed ideas are not proof of anything but ideas. So many chemtrailers fall for that trap and are so ingrained in believing that they bypass logic.

There might be chemtrails up there, but to far, nobody has taken a sample that proves it, not produced a plane that sprays it. So until then, I will have to call a spade a spade.



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by FissionSurplus
Yes, let's not question anything, ever....unless we have absolute proof, which comes from a government or other "official" source. Because we're not floating in the air, with testing equipment, we must just accept weird stripes in the sky as ice crystals and not go any further.


Knowing that there are aircraft that can "float in the air with testing equipment", it begs the question of why nobody has done it?



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by FissionSurplus
Yes, let's not question anything, ever....unless we have absolute proof, which comes from a government or other "official" source.


Why do you think that only source is government? Scientist independently dont matter? Schools of science dont matter?


we must just accept weird stripes in the sky as ice crystals and not go any further.


That's completely subjective. I see nothing weird in contrails. They're awesome.



Despite any testing proof from what floats down from these things onto the ground, vegetation, housing or people....despite the Government Accounting Office's own records showing massive amount of military chaff being purchased and used every single fricking year, and despite the Department of Naval Research's own studies which show that military chaff, upon degredation, is harmful to humans and animals, we must just accept that these are normal chemtrails and go about our happy, carefree lives. Don't listen to the weather casters which have to explain that radar returns on doppler aren't rain, but massive amounts of chaff.


How is military chaff at all related to the topic? Try to stay on topic please and not confuse the issue.



I am so DONE with this argument. I've provided proof, government documents, etc., and it is NEVER enough. So be it.


If you were done why post? If you were really done you wouldn't have replied by murkying the issue with offtopic post.



My apologies for flaming your post. This is an old argument, with two different camps who will never see a truce. I just get so bloody sick of posters intimating that anybody who is suspicious is mentally ill. I could just as easily say that your disinterest in environmental pollution is a sign of mental illness, via obstinate denial and refusal to admit that there is crap in our air and soil which is totally unnatural and can harm us.


No need to apologise imho. This may be an old issue but as such is one of the most persistent. Noone is denying the fact that our world is being poisoned by industries and all kinds of pollution. What is in question is this theory that is somehow sprayed on people. Not a bad theory but once you realise that there is 0 evidence for it and is backed up by complete misunderstanding of scientific facts then it comes a topic for "truth seekers" such as OP.



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by FissionSurplus
 





Despite any testing proof from what floats down from these things onto the ground, vegetation, housing or people....despite the Government Accounting Office's own records showing massive amount of military chaff being purchased and used every single fricking year, and despite the Department of Naval Research's own studies which show that military chaff, upon degredation, is harmful to humans and animals, we must just accept that these are normal chemtrails and go about our happy, carefree lives. Don't listen to the weather casters which have to explain that radar returns on doppler aren't rain, but massive amounts of chaff.


I take it you haven't seen this...


The FAA has placed more stringent restrictions on DOD use of any type of chaff that operates within the bands used by air traffic control radar and navigational systems. In taking the more conservative approach to air traffic control and flight safety, FAA has limited or placed restrictions on the locations, altitudes, and/or time periods within which specific types of chaff can be employed.



The effective employment of chaff and flares in combat requires training and frequent use by aircrews to master the capabilities of these devices and to ensure safe and efficient handling by ground crews. Training is conducted through simulated battle conditions within Department of Defense (DOD) weapons ranges and electronic combat ranges and other airspace areas, such as MOAs, MTRs, that have been assessed and approved for chaff or flare use. Chaff and flares are also used in field exercises such as Red Flag at Nellis Air Force Range.



The materials in chaff are generally nontoxic except in quantities significantly larger than those any human or animal could reasonably be exposed to from chaff use. Safety risks were found to be extremely low and isolated to specific circumstances that can be avoided or managed. The primary issue is the potential for interference with air traffic control radar, which is managed by requiring units to obtain a frequency clearance from the USAF Frequency Management Center and Headquarters Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) prior to using chaff that could interfere with air traffic control radar. Air quality issues included questions about the potential for chaff to break down into respirable particle sizes and the possibility that hazardous air pollutants may be generated from pyrotechnic impulse cartridges used with some chaff models. 'Ibe results of chaff particulate tests and a screening health risk assessment concluded that these are not significant concerns.


www.globalsecurity.org...

So essentially the FAA regulates where and what type of chaff is used. Seems that it isn't a health concern either.

So I stay on topic...

Chaff has nothing to do with so called chemtrails..Sorry..
edit on 16-4-2013 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by PsykoOps
 


Just want to make it clear that there are other reasons to do this than "it's my job and I get paid from the gubbament to do this." Seeing kids being afraid of clouds is just sad.


I must admit, I am on the fence when it comes to this subject. However, I have never, not once, met a kid who is frightened of clouds.

You and a few others always use this as the reason you are de-bunking chemtrails, but I seriously cannot see this as a genuine reason.



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by FissionSurplus
Yes, let's not question anything, ever....unless we have absolute proof, which comes from a government or other "official" source. Because we're not floating in the air, with testing equipment, we must just accept weird stripes in the sky as ice crystals and not go any further.

Despite any testing proof from what floats down from these things onto the ground, vegetation, housing or people....despite the Government Accounting Office's own records showing massive amount of military chaff being purchased and used every single fricking year, and despite the Department of Naval Research's own studies which show that military chaff, upon degredation, is harmful to humans and animals, we must just accept that these are normal chemtrails and go about our happy, carefree lives. Don't listen to the weather casters which have to explain that radar returns on doppler aren't rain, but massive amounts of chaff.

I am so DONE with this argument. I've provided proof, government documents, etc., and it is NEVER enough. So be it.

My apologies for flaming your post. This is an old argument, with two different camps who will never see a truce. I just get so bloody sick of posters intimating that anybody who is suspicious is mentally ill. I could just as easily say that your disinterest in environmental pollution is a sign of mental illness, via obstinate denial and refusal to admit that there is crap in our air and soil which is totally unnatural and can harm us.


It's one thing to be suspicious, it's another think entirely to state as fact the various ideas I've seen posted here. Just because someone COULD be doing something doesn't mean they ARE doing something. Just because A = C doesn't mean A = B.

It's a huge leap from military chaff degrading into potentially harmful substances, to a coordinated multinational effort to rain down liquid death from above. You chemtrailers can't even agree on WHAT or WHY this is supposedly being done. You all have varying theories that do NOT fit together. If you can't get this straight amongst yourselves, how do you expect anyone to give the idea any credibility?

A few facts, and if you disagree they are facts feel free to prove otherwise:

FACT: You cannot tell, but looking into the sky, what altitude, or composition the trails are (mentioned by the OP)

FACT: There is zero data collected from these trails to support the idea they are anything other than jet exhaust interacting with the atmosphere.

FACT: It's impossible to accurately distribute anything from the altitudes these chemtrails are supposed to be at. There's a reason that when dropping plant killers all over the east the sprayers were very low to the ground, because that's the only way to accurately deposit a material in a given area. I can't even count the times I've heard people say they saw a chemtrail overhead and a few hours later became sick. That's just completely ridiculous and impossible, and makes those making such statements look ignorant and disconnected from reality.

You SHOULD question, and should be suspicious. But please keep yourself anchored firmly to the Earth and look at everything with a critical eye, instead of accepting right away anything that supports your idea, and discounting anything that doesn't support it.

It would help if chemtrail supporters would clean their own house. Come down hard on the people posting complete nonsense, as it hurts YOUR argument, even if you do have a valid one. Guilt be association as it were, the same reason that I'll refute ridiculous ideas even though many people would call me a conspiracy theorist, because it makes ME look bad when someone is talking nonsense, and degrades my arguments.



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by Cobaltic1978
 





I have never, not once, met a kid who is frightened of clouds.


How many adults do you know are afraid of clouds?

So far in the real world outside of ATS, I have yet to meet someone scared of the white lines in the sky..but there are many here...



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 04:13 PM
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If anything, I'd guess the chemtrail supporters are the paid government and/or corporate shills.

Chemtrails are a pretty convenient cover story for industrial waste, poor quality food and drink, and drugs doing damage to the population. There are real, proven, concrete dangers to people, and chemtrailers seem to ignore those in favor of their chemtrail idea. It really defies logic, and if someone is the type of person to believe every subject is infiltrated with paid shills, I'd look towards the people pushing chemtrail theory as the shills, not the debunkers.



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by Cobaltic1978

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by PsykoOps
 


Just want to make it clear that there are other reasons to do this than "it's my job and I get paid from the gubbament to do this." Seeing kids being afraid of clouds is just sad.


I must admit, I am on the fence when it comes to this subject. However, I have never, not once, met a kid who is frightened of clouds.

You and a few others always use this as the reason you are de-bunking chemtrails, but I seriously cannot see this as a genuine reason.




Easy,

Many claims are made from photos that look identical to contrails are in fact chemtrails, Contrails are known to linger and disperse and eventually become cirrus clouds if the atmospheric conditions are just ripe for such to occur,
Hence the reason why some question the fear of clouds some have that post here on ATS.



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


S/f



that photo to me says "talk to the hand"

You cant beat that type of evidence, just distance yourself.

Mental stability to be brought up and insinuated at for this type of evidence and the beliefs surrounding it is similar to what my frustrated side maybe wants to and probably has been said and posted, however its just a case falling too deep into the rabbit hole of the conspiracy world and investing too much belief in the negative aspects, one discovers or simply believes much of what they learned growing up to be false and it becomes a slippery slope in distrusting everything they have come across academically and then loose the ability to use simple logic and reason to explain why they believe and why those that don't are wrong.

This is one of the purposes I came to ATS,

For those that believe in the negative aspects of many of these conspiracies and place much emotion on them, meaning caring and believing what they are doing is right by trying to wake others up or warn others of impending doom.
That was me only about 4 years ago,

When I watched what in the world are they spraying for the first time being in the state of mind I was in(trying to convince myself and people close to me about the negative NWO,Illuminati Reptilian overlords controlling this matrix from a parallel universe preparing us for destruction by Nibiru) and even having a basic knowledge to debunk some of what was displayed in the movie, I was mesmerized and had another paranoid demon on my shoulder to feed.

Cut a long story short and not to derail this thread, I found it to be very unhealthy socially, physically and spiritually to invest belief in that which is negative and even if true is way above my pay grade to even contemplate myself undertaking such a battle. I prefer peace even if it kills me before my time.



posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by FissionSurplus
Yes, let's not question anything, ever....


There's nothing wrong with questioning things.

There is something seriously wrong with preferring a fantasy answer over long established verifiable science.



posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 04:32 AM
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Originally posted by FissionSurplus
Yes, let's not question anything, ever....unless we have absolute proof, which comes from a government or other "official" source. Because we're not floating in the air, with testing equipment, we must just accept weird stripes in the sky as ice crystals and not go any further.


What, apart from the point that no skeptics are saying any of those things at all? Your imagining of the opposition viewpoint into something extreme and irrational seems to be symptomatic of the outlook needed to believe in the extreme and irrational theory you are clinging to in the first place.


Despite any testing proof from what floats down from these things onto the ground, vegetation, housing or people..


But HOW does the testing show that what was found on any of these things came from aircraft, as opposed to factory chimneys, natural weather patterns or any other source of airborne material? This is a classic example of where Chemtrail evidence requires you to make an assumption without their being any reason to make it other than the theory requires it to be so.


.despite the Government Accounting Office's own records showing massive amount of military chaff being purchased and used every single fricking year, and despite the Department of Naval Research's own studies which show that military chaff, upon degredation, is harmful to humans and animals, we must just accept that these are normal chemtrails and go about our happy, carefree lives. Don't listen to the weather casters which have to explain that radar returns on doppler aren't rain, but massive amounts of chaff.


So is your problem chemtrails or chaff? Do you even know why talk of chaff is irrelevant to the contrail/chemtrail argument? I would guess not. This sort of error just makes you look silly. Unless of course you can point to a horizon to horizon persistent and spreading line of chaff



I am so DONE with this argument. I've provided proof, government documents, etc., and it is NEVER enough. So be it.


I often think I'm done too but ignorance just winds me up so much I keep coming back. The govt documents you provided are all good and appreciated
they just aren't what you seem to think they are. I don't recall seeing any proof however.

]



posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 07:37 AM
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Originally posted by Cobaltic1978

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by PsykoOps
 


Just want to make it clear that there are other reasons to do this than "it's my job and I get paid from the gubbament to do this." Seeing kids being afraid of clouds is just sad.


I must admit, I am on the fence when it comes to this subject. However, I have never, not once, met a kid who is frightened of clouds.

You and a few others always use this as the reason you are de-bunking chemtrails, but I seriously cannot see this as a genuine reason.


They are crackpots hired to muddy the water.

It's not working.

I don't blame them. They are just doing their job.

That's cool.



posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by Cobaltic1978
 


It is exactly the reason I started debunking.
I kept seeing pictures and videos of clouds, misrepresented as "chemtrails."
I know clouds. They are not "chemtrails." When I finally called someone out about it, I was told I needed to research and find the "truth" about "chemtrails." So I did. "Chemtrails" are not real.

As to kids being afraid of clouds, I've seen "chemtrail" believers do just that. Are you aware that if you write to NASA about clouds or contrails they send you a poster with the clouds identified? And that the name of specific clouds has been around for decades?
Not according to some "chemtrail" believers. The make all kinds of claims...

This chart is available online as a .pdf, if you want to see it yourself.
It's also discussed at "chemtrail" websites. All claim it's propaganda against "chemtrails".
So, yes, believers are afraid of clouds, and they want kids afraid of clouds, too.

"Cereal-cum-u-lust" which is an actual quote from the above video. She can't pronounce "cirrocumulus" correctly. But it's "chemcloud"......






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