Should people have the right to do whatever they want with their land?

OP quote: "On the other hand, we also have to think on future generations. Do we want to create a situation, where in the future our children and grandchildren would not be able to farm or live on a high % of land simply because the current generation tried to squeeze every single dime out of the productive land and at the end turned it into inhabitable wasteland."
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I take issue with this presentation. First off, most if not all the farmers I know take much better care of their ground than one would imagine. They are acutely aware of possible pollution, fertilizer usage and ground water contamination. Also pesticides along with herbicide usage.
Secondly, they Do plan for future generational usage and endeavor to leave it to their family in a sustainable and useful condition, able to both compete and provide for the future needs.

Farmers have always got the Raw end of everything, are the first feeling market influences, and the last to recover. All the time, hoping and trying for that one successful crop to take them out of the red. And in most cases, that only comes once a decade if your lucky and the stars all align.

Lastly, farmers are the lifeblood of any nation, without them, you can guess the outcome. Their jobs last 24-7 most of the year, from before sun up till well after dark. And their many times decried by the population at large, just as this OP has done. But they persevere on the face of all challenges. Say what you will, your food and every other item created by agriculture doesn't magically come from the back room of your local supermarket, they were Grown. And a lot of risk was involved in trying to produce the crop that did it.. And as easy as farmers make it for citizens, what is their thanks? littered highways, regional blight, and pollution. You just think about that for a while......

Dont really believe in land ownership, although in some ways it could be practically developed..

But at the core I believe

every being in this universe has the right to live somewhere and access the resources. no purchase required. when you are born you are born with a right to live.

Originally posted by Plotus


I take issue with this presentation. First off, most if not all the farmers I know take much better care of their ground than one would imagine. They are acutely aware of possible pollution, fertilizer usage and ground water contamination. Also pesticides along with herbicide usage.
Secondly, they Do plan for future generational usage and endeavor to leave it to their family in a sustainable and useful condition, able to both compete and provide for the future needs.

Farmers have always got the Raw end of everything, are the first feeling market influences, and the last to recover. All the time, hoping and trying for that one successful crop to take them out of the red. And in most cases, that only comes once a decade if your lucky and the stars all align.

Lastly, farmers are the lifeblood of any nation, without them, you can guess the outcome. Their jobs last 24-7 most of the year, from before sun up till well after dark. And their many times decried by the population at large, just as this OP has done. But they persevere on the face of all challenges. Say what you will, your food and every other item created by agriculture doesn't magically come from the back room of your local supermarket, they were Grown. And a lot of risk was involved in trying to produce the crop that did it.. And as easy as farmers make it for citizens, what is their thanks? littered highways, regional blight, and pollution. You just think about that for a while......

Sorry, if I did not express myself well. I did not mean to offend anybody, especially farmers.

I know myself how hard farming is and I respect people who do it a lot, as it is not easy, especially organic farming and I agree farmers are the lifeblood of a nation and I truly hope soon there would be more small farmers than corporations.

I know most farmers truly take care of their land, especially farmers who have had their land for a long time already. Although, the problems lies in the point that all people do not take good care of their land. Most do, but many do not, especially people who have bought a land for making profit on it. I have seen even private land owners, who have bought a land, for example a piece forest, simply to cut it down and leave it. The wood gotten from the down earns enough profit for them so replanting the forest and waiting would only lessen the profit and many decide simply to leave it as it is and keep the land, so they might be able to sell it in the future when land prices rise. I have seen similar actions in farming. As soon as the final cent is squeezed out overusing pesticides, the land is left as it is or sold to somebody else. As long as profit exists it is okay Taking care of it would only mean extra expenses. There are many people who act like it, especially business people and always they are not using juridical name but buy things privately.

So the question lies in how to make sure that everybody acted as the good farmers did? It is like company taxes. Most companies are honest and pay their taxes, although certain % always tries to cheat. That is why everybody needs to fill in loads of papers, simply because some % cheats. There comes the question: how far should the private rights with land go to ensure that minimal amount of land is wasted at the end?

I own an organic dairy farm - I have 160 acres. I don't farm organically because it’s good for the environment or out of some tree hugging "save the earth" philosophy.

I do it because it is profitable and sustainable. I have 40 acres of organic soy and 20 of organic alfalfa hay. I compost, the animal waste and use it for fertilizer. I use non-chemical fly control methods etc. I use no hormones on the ladies and raise my own beef, chicken and pork for me, my family and a few other families as well...

I consider myself the owner of the land as I own 40 acres free and clear. Sure I have to pay taxes but that doesn't make it not mine. Should the government somehow dissolve I would still consider it mine and any trespassers or squatters would be removed in the most effective manner possible - even if that is head first in a body bag.

I bought land so I can live a self sustaining lifestyle... I grow most of what we eat and have plenty left over for sale.

I don't want to be constrained by a home owners association, or even a government swooping in and regulating what I can build where and when and where I live there are no such restrictions. I guess I am lucky there is not some endangered bug or wild flower in my pasture...

I find the - "no one owns the land" crowd to be almost exclusively from the "I can't afford to buy land/property" crowd. Same as how those who are for redistribution of recourses are people who have none.

Even a dog is smart enough to not # in its own bed...people who own land tend to be very good stewards of it. However, entities; corporate farming operations, corporations and big business concerns tend to be poor stewards of their land as people in groups are not individually responsible for their actions. If every business was a sole proprietorship I think we'd see something entirely different. When a man's name and reputation are on the line they tend to act differently.

You are a temporary squatter upon the Earth. The idea of owning land is ludicrous, and you only think it is OK because of your cultural training. "Property Rights" is a theme given to you by your masters. THEY like property rights. YOU on the other hand don't have any property to have rights to. You are a renter, even if you think you own your land. If you think you aren't a renter, try not paying your taxes for a while. See what happens. And as far as "whatever you want" with your land - not if it affects the rest of us you don't. And if we have learned anything these last few years, it is that there is darn little that you can do that doesn't affect the rest of us. So - no.

Originally posted by FaithandArms
This belief that we need a massive population reduction or that we should all live stacked on top of each other in big cities is a belief pushed by the elites.

Actually, it's because if you have a massive population, you have more resource consumption. Consumption faster than what can be renewed/replaced. In the end there is barely any resources left for survival, so all animals die.

Earth is HUGE. Heck we can even build fortresses in the ocean. I'd say our population can possibly reach 100billion. The only problem is resource limitation.

There is no such thing as owning land. There is such thing as territory though...but not owning land.

Silly ignorant humans

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by Cabin

 

No one owns land - that is one of the biggest delusions of our society and one of the most damaging,
You cannot own land and no you do not have the right to do what you want to it.

However - many people act like they own the land and destroy it nonetheless.

Reminds me of the mindset of the kids of one of my former neighbors. I tolerated a fair bit because kids need to be kids and, having been lucky enough to have grown up on a farm, I feel bad for how constricted their childhoods are. Because of legal liabilities, though, there are times you have to step in and say something.

One day I looked out and one of the girls (around 7 - 8) was a good fifteen feet up into our tulip tree. I came out and told her she couldn't be climbing our trees and would have to come down. She said, "Shut up, old man. It isn't your tree, anyway. It's the city's!"

When you and everyone you know has never lived anywhere but in rented places or public housing, I can see where the idea of ownership would feel alien. I take offense, though, when someone lumps farmers like my parents in with the oil, coal & nuclear industries when they complain about people who have made a good living off of raping "Our" resources. That was actually part of a thread in another forum I used to frequent. Very few people who rant about farmers have one iota of understanding of what it takes to keep a farm going.

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by Cabin

 

No one owns land - that is one of the biggest delusions of our society and one of the most damaging,
You cannot own land and no you do not have the right to do what you want to it.

However - many people act like they own the land and destroy it nonetheless.

Very true!
I am glad it is in the first reply. People (in general) have no healthy relationship to earth at all, to the nature neither ... and they should OWN land and do whatever they want there? oh yes we can even buy piece of moon.. sun is bought already i heard somewhere... dont u see that nonsense?

When people holded just the piece of earth they were able to take care of manualy, that was quite a proper happy standart i think... but that is very far away from current situation. With owning came problems.

I wondering if everyone in this thread who have said they do not believe in land ownership, would agree to any government police agency to come onto their property for any or no reason at all without a warrant or without asking permission? If any place you live is on land you don't own, then it would stand to reason that not only could the government enter but anyone could since the land belongs to no one.

Do any of you garden, grow food? Does the fruit of that labor belong to everyone? If you don't respect the right to private property, there are no other rights left. You respect nothing. You stand for nothing. And will soon have nothing. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

reply to post by Cabin



Watching what's happening in Japan and seeing overhead video of the tar sands in Canada, I just had to revisit this thread and give you props for thinking about the land and future generations. Coming from a farm family, it can be a hot button topic for me, but we aren't all that far apart on you OP.