Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Should people have the right to do whatever they want with their land?

page: 1
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join

posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 06:06 AM
link   
I have thought on this question for a while now. As to most questions this has also two sides.

One one hand, when a person has purchased a land, he has the owner rights, as he owns the land.

On the other hand, we also have to think on future generations. Do we want to create a situation, where in the future our children and grandchildren would not be able to farm or live on a high % of land simply because the current generation tried to squeeze every single dime out of the productive land and at the end turned it into inhabitable wasteland.

It is not easy to find the borderline between private land rights and the rights for the future generations to have habitable lands, although I personally believe in the latter option : I do not consider myself to be an environmental activist, although I believe that we should think more on the consequences of our actions. It is simply too egoistic to use all the resources for personal gain without thinking on the future.

There are several reasons, why I believe in the latter option:

1) Earth has limited land.
2) I doubt in the near future a technology would be invented which would turn a desert into an oasis
3) I want my kids and grandkids to be able to live in this world

I have talked to many people about this matter. Many have agreed with me, yet many are of the belief that when they own lake, they can poison it or do whatever they want, because they paid for it. I personally believe no money should be worth pollution, as money is simply an illusion, as land is reality. Money can buy things, but it cannot turn wasteland into a productive land. No person or corporation should have the right of ruining this world for the future generations. People should own land, although if they want to do something with , they must be able to prove that it has not latter consequences, e.g. a person can farm, although overusing pesticides or bad management of land would ruin the land, so it should be illegal. A person can take down their forest, but they must provide the regrowth of the same forest. Certain rules already exist, although considering what I see every day they should be made much tougher to ensure a habitable land for the future generations.

What do you think about this matter?
edit on 6-4-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 06:09 AM
link   
reply to post by Cabin
 


No one owns land - that is one of the biggest delusions of our society and one of the most damaging,
You cannot own land and no you do not have the right to do what you want to it.

However - many people act like they own the land and destroy it nonetheless.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 06:17 AM
link   
"I have talked to many people about this matter. Many have agreed with me, yet many are of the belief that when they own lake, they can poison it or do whatever they want, because they paid for it"




please tell me these are 14 year old pot heads.....I think you just made this up tho



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 06:20 AM
link   
reply to post by HelenConway
 

I saw the name of this thead and was coming on to say almost the exact things you did. People lived for millions of years without the concept of land ownership. They had their territories, and specific caves (I guess if you lived in a cave with your family then you'd have a sense of ownership), but moved around too. In terms of owning something like a forest, and cutting it down because you and others say you own it, this borders on both insanity and a form of retardation. Man is the only animal who purposely destroys forests.

edit on 6-4-2013 by Aleister because: one word missing



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 06:25 AM
link   

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by Cabin
 


No one owns land - that is one of the biggest delusions of our society and one of the most damaging,
You cannot own land and no you do not have the right to do what you want to it.

However - many people act like they own the land and destroy it nonetheless.


I think your statement is wrong. There is a process where you can have exclusive rights to your land by an application of allodial title or land patent rights. Link



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 06:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by Majes

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by Cabin
 


No one owns land - that is one of the biggest delusions of our society and one of the most damaging,
You cannot own land and no you do not have the right to do what you want to it.

However - many people act like they own the land and destroy it nonetheless.


I think your statement is wrong. There is a process where you can have exclusive rights to your land by an application of allodial title or land patent rights. Link


well you are entitled to your opinion but there is the truth and the delusion and never the twain shall meet ..
second line.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 06:32 AM
link   
reply to post by Majes
 


You still are taxed for that land and if you dont pay up, you lose it. thats not ownership.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 06:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
"I have talked to many people about this matter. Many have agreed with me, yet many are of the belief that when they own lake, they can poison it or do whatever they want, because they paid for it"




please tell me these are 14 year old pot heads.....I think you just made this up tho




Actually the exact same sentence came from quite wealthy businessman. We were talking about the euro-standards in agriculture and he was quite disappointed in them, as some things which are disallowed here are considered normal in the States and the US companies can get much more out of their land and earn more by doing it. He was quite drunk though, although drunk people tend to be more honest and say what they think.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 06:36 AM
link   
reply to post by HelenConway
 


Please provide this thread with a link of your "truth" that NO ONE is entitled to ownership of land. I provided a link on how to apply for Allodial title on Land giving you sovereign rights on your property.

Here is the definition of ‘allodial’ in Black’s Law Dictionary.

“Land held absolutely in one’s own right, and not of any lord or superior; and not subject to feudal duties or burdens.”
edit on 6-4-2013 by Majes because: Added definition


Link Land Patent Grants
edit on 6-4-2013 by Majes because: Added Link to Land Patent Grants



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 06:40 AM
link   
reply to post by Cabin
 


Also if you take a look at different court battles, you can often see corporations and businesses fighting for their "rights". I remember some fisty court battle, where some company was busted with not handling waste correctly and it was just sad to see the lawyers trying to get as good deal as possible for the company. Overally they lost the battle and got fined, although the overall costs of the court battle and fine were times lower than the money the company saved from acting correctly.

If you have noticed some oil tanker leaks or thing like that, the oil companies might lose couple of billion dollars for the clean-up, although the area might never become the same as it was and if the company had ensured safety from the first-place it would have cost them much more than a couple of billion dollars, so they still win...



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 06:44 AM
link   
reply to post by Cabin
 

Also have to ask is it fair for anyone to own Land at all? If it is all owned how do new borns ever get land? How does any man or government have a right to force one human born on earth to not use a part of that earth. Earth resources are a birthright t all.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 07:08 AM
link   
There is land that has been in my family for over 150 years. It has been well taken care of. I think for the most part land owners are good caretakers. At least my family has been. There is even oil under the land. It has never been drilled on and never will be. Private land owners have pride in their land and have a vested interest in improving/maintaining it. Corporations generally do not have the same pride in ownership. Maybe corporations should only be able to lease land from the owner and the owner should be in charge of making sure that it is taken care of through the lease agreement legalease. The world that we have created is one driven by money and gadgets. We asked for it, we got it. It can not be undone easily. We are an entitlement society. A meme society.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 07:15 AM
link   
Yes, I do believe people should be able to do what they want with their land if they own it. I have seen alot of responsible land owners that have cleaned up the land that generations past have distroyed. but I have also seen current land owners turn there land into a junk yard and the County would come in and fine them and remove all the junk at the owners exspense.

But if i purchase a peice of property I don't want to be told by anyone that my grass is to long or I can't make a vegitable garden in my front yard, or do you have a permit to put up that fence.

I do agree that it is the corporations that need to monitored when they grab land, but for the individuals I am not to worried, even the farmers are taking care of there land so the next generation can continue to farm, I see crop rotations, manuar being spreed, and in my neck of the woods you don't see a lot of fertilizing going on.

If I am paying for it I believe I should be abel to enjoy it the way I want to instead of some buracrate telling me what I need to do.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 08:28 AM
link   
I have the deed to 160 acres- I consider myself a custodian, a caretaker who requires the space and will work with Nature to meet my goals, and I shall protect her (with or without the deed, indeed) - however you will find that people with varying capitalistic philosophies have varied opinions, most people believe they have a 'right' to own something, but that is slavery. -- time will sort this imbalance out. We do not need any further regulation by the government- any sort of land disputes we have, should be settled with the Native American tribes.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 08:43 AM
link   
land and property is rented. i dont pay taxes every year my car or any of my guitars and amps and motorbikes.

like other people have said .. dont pay your property taxes you will learn quickly how much you really own land or housing . one of the biggest scams that have been around for a long time .

every inch of land , every drop of water belongs to everyone past present and future . sadly many people do seem to see it that way .

edit on 6/4/13 by freedomSlave because: typo



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 08:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by purplemonkeydishwasher
I have the deed to 160 acres- I consider myself a custodian, a caretaker who requires the space and will work with Nature to meet my goals, and I shall protect her (with or without the deed, indeed) - however you will find that people with varying capitalistic philosophies have varied opinions, most people believe they have a 'right' to own something, but that is slavery. -- time will sort this imbalance out. We do not need any further regulation by the government- any sort of land disputes we have, should be settled with the Native American tribes.


i would say agenda 21 deals with that and a lot of other things if people would take the time to read the actual document instead of listening to what alex jones and people like him say on it .

go ahead label me as a nwo supporter , but really they are not all that far off as i do support many things that are theorize what is said about them there is a lot of logic , and there is also alot of disinformation about it and fear mongering but that is another thread



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 08:58 AM
link   
Land is an investment. Only a crackhead would intentionally poison/destroy/strip their land.

Why pay so much money for a trash heap?

The jerkoff who owned part of my property long before me used that landscaping plastic weed barrier everywhere and just layed the sod over it. If I ever find the original owners there is going to be a lot of face punching. Thankfully it's just an annexed section and nothing a little (or a lot) of muscle cant repair but still who the # does that?



posted on Apr, 7 2013 @ 09:55 PM
link   
Just punched this question in for a quick answer about how many acres are in north america:

Total land area of North America (including Central America and the Caribbean): 6,050,697,738 acres

Total land area of Earth: 36,803,653,121 acres
Total population of Earth: 6,553,289,000 ( I have seen estimates a little closer to 7 billion as well)


so..... there are books out there that teach you to be self sufficient and live off the land. One such book tells you how to homestead and grow your own food on one acre of land.
Here: www.amazon.com...

One acre or less:
www.amazon.com...

On 1/4 of an acre:
www.amazon.com...


Being generous if you gave every single person on the planet 1 acre to live on, everything would still be fine. 36.8 billion acres to almost 7 billion people? Plenty of room left over for everyone to live.

This belief that we need a massive population reduction or that we should all live stacked on top of each other in big cities is a belief pushed by the elites. They want to be able to use the forests, deserts, plains and tundras as their own personal playground. They don't want you there, they don't want me there. It's sad how through endless speeches about how we don't have enough "x" or "z" that they have led a lot of people to believe we have an overpopulation problem. We have an elitist problem, not an overpopulation problem.

People starve in other countries because of several factors such as using inaccurate farming and animal husbandry practices for their region and climate. As well as most third world countries, where people are starving, have tyrants and small ultra rich individuals who run everything. They control the access to food, water and medical care.

As to the comment above about landowners polluting their own land and shouldn't be allowed to own land. Normally individuals or families who own land take good care of their land. There is an emotional and financial investment being put into the land. There is also a certain amount of pride that comes from being able to look at what you have been able to achieve, especially if the land you had needed work to raise up to an ideal condition.
Corportations, etc on the other hand that own land tend to own it because it has something they want that will make them money or is a way to cut down on costs (mineral resources or a way to dump chemicals without being caught, etc). Don't blame the average Joe that owns some land for the mass polluting going on across the country.

If you buy into the Agenda 21 beliefs you realize you will not be allowed into the "parks" and wild areas right? Just because you support the rich elites who want to keep us lowly serfs out of their pristine lands, doesn't mean that they will let you in there. Support them or not, you are still a lowly peon to them... you are just slightly more useful for a time.



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 12:08 AM
link   
reply to post by FaithandArms
 


You are considering the amount of land, although not the agricultural characteristics of land. Too much land is inhabitable or suitable for only certain kinds of crops. Farmers must always exist, although I prefer lots of small farms to corporations. Trade must exist. I would never be able to eat corn,rice or certain fruits if trade did not exist. The area is simply too cold for it. Northern European summers have around 25-30 degrees Celsius, while in winters the temperature might easily fall under -20 degrees. It is impossible to raise fruits, like bananas, oranges. The main crops that can be grown are wheat, rye, barley, potatoes, most vegetables. Although in Asia many vegetables can not be grown due to the climate.

If we gave everybody 1 acre of land, it would create chaos, at is impossible to find 6 billion of acres of land with same agricultural characteristics. There will be too much arguing a´la "Why did he get better land than I did?"Also most people would not have the time needed for farming, if they have a job. Organic farming without pesticides takes enormous time, as all the weeds need to be handpicked out. It takes lots of time.

Also transportation must be taken into account. Roads must still exist, which means these will take lots of productive land from usage.

Tundras, deserts are simply inhabitable areas. It is extremely hard to grow anything in such areas. Majority of Russia east from Urals is not easy place to live at. Unproductive land with cold climate is not good for living. That is why Siberia is quite inhabited compared to Europe. Same is with many tropical areas (lots of Asia, Africa). They are only good for certain crops or things like cotton, coffee, cocoa etc, but not for vegetables.

I personally believe that forests and wildlife should be preserved. I doubt much waste is let into these areas by the "elite". Here is around 50% of area forest and I love it. It truly affects the air quality. I sincerely hope at least 33% will always stay here and some idiots do not come and take these down for personal gain.

Yes, normally individuals do not want to ruin their land, although often they still do due to lack of knowledge in farming.. Everybody who owns land should at least go through a thorough training on land use, so they would not what is good and what is not good. I have seen several farmers turning their land into swampish area simply by overwatering it or inproductive by overusing pesticides. It is not good for either land or the person, although their lack of knowledge wasted a perfectly good land. I believe at least some amount of control should be over such actions, so that these would not occur. Not overregulations e.g. too high grass, but simple things that would make land usage more effective, so that certain people or companies would not let their land go waste by using it badly, whether intentionally or simply because of stupidity. To be honest, I would not mind if any pesticide, which is not organic, was banned.

I read the Agenda 21 and to be honest, I did notice anything about restricted areas, only about having certain areas not deforested and not hunted, so that forests with lots of wildlife would not be turned into inhabitable plains without animals, so that wilderness and wildlife would always exist.. There are certain areas in Europe like that, where even hunting is illegal.

For example, here hunters need to be certified and have only a certain amount animals they are allowed to kill in a year. The amount has been well-calculated and it simply needs to exist as otherwise certain animals, which are more would already be dead. That way animals always exist in the amount that is safe for the environment (so that they do not ruin the area), although they will also not become extinct. Although there are certain restrictions for not taking down forests, even private ones.
edit on 8-4-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 04:54 AM
link   
Well, I'm not planning on destroying any of the land I live on, or polluting any lakes, or storing nuclear waste - quite the opposite - I would probably plant trees and gardens and make improvements. My question, though, is if I should have the right to live my life the way I wish in my home, as long as I am not harming anyone.





new topics

top topics



 
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join