reply to post by Strawberry88
I don't mock the "caves". I mock the people who mock them
. Caves is a misnomer and quite a misstatement for the impression it leaves, in my
opinion. Sure, they have thousands of real caves like one might find in a national park in the United States or like is scattered all over my state.
Plenty of those, I suppose ...and I'd imagine most who ran to them, died in them. Those are the natural formations and primitive dug outs that date
back to Alexander the Great and Atilla the Hun in some cases.
Those aren't what I think of or what the AQ fighters and Taliban were running to like their hair was on fire in the late fall and winter of 2001.
As even the Pentagon admits, the most heavily fortified parts, where Mr. bin Laden may be concealed, could well be invulnerable to the most
powerful conventional bombs known.
That's not by accident or happenstance of "caves" like any American or most Westerners would imagine the term. Not even close....and sadly, what
existed in 2001 is part of what the Central Intelligence Agency assisted in building during the Soviet occupation of the 1980's. Usama Bin Laden was
also an Engineer by trade. He helped build some of it.
That leaves two options: bases like Wolf's Hole (there are said to be a dozen or more), or heavily fortified mountain bunkers built to withstand
everything short a nuclear attack.
One expert says Mr. bin Laden has built at least two such facilities, near Jalalabad and Kandahar, ''and there could be more.''
''They're multi-level, dogleg tunnels. They have air vents and escape hatches out the back,'' said John F. Shroder Jr., a geologist and geographer at
the Universitry of Nebraska at Omaha who prepared the national atlas of Afghanistan in 1970. Mr. Shroder said he was in the region in the 1980's and
is familiar with many of its karezi and
(Source - 26 November 2001
Considering they are still very successfully using them to play hide and seek while giving everyone fits on a regular basis, I'd say the "Caves"
turned out to be just about as bad as predicted ...12 years later...we learned what the Russians tried to warn the US about. They don't go away, they
NEVER give up and the terrain is almost entirely in their favor as being what they have been running across since toddlers. If they ever got out in
the open, they got creamed and I recall a very detailed account of a Thermobaric Bomb actually being called in by the CIA team hunting Bin Laden in up
to December of 2001, on top of Taliban camp in the open. The account described a good number there...absolutely confirmed by eye ball to BE there
before the bomb dropped. Nothing ..literally nothing..was left to find by how the book laid it out. Too bad they used and still DO use the underground
networks built over a millenia.
We went into Vietnam calling them farmer/peasants and got our butts handed to us. Oh, the US lost almost no battles, but Politicians underestimating
the enemy, lost the war.
We went into Afghanistan calling them cave dwellers, backward desert nomads and rag tag fighters. Again, we've gotten out butts handed to us and
they'll be a coherent fighting force when the US leaves. I consider that defeat, personally. Same thing. The Military didn't lose. IDIOT civilians
that lead it lost the war for underestimating them.
We went into Iraq thinking of them as just dying to welcome us, rather simple minded and badly in need of America's generous attention. Same result,
Now, we MAY be going into North Korea, and ONCE AGAIN, nothing had been learned. It's on the cheap, with minimal forces, even now, out for defensive
lines. Why? The DPRK has an unstable moron running it and simple people, just terribly misguided. They'll surely see the light when American boots
stomp into their village...or so, ONCE AGAIN the Politicians tell themselves and each other.
I'm sick and tired of seeing my nation LOSE WARS because we can't seem to take an enemy seriously until it's beyond all hope of coming out in any
positive way. ..and then it's someone else's fault. Never the idiots in office that made the nightmare ..and that takes more than a President. It
takes the whole of Capital Hill to help or remain silent. Either way.... I mock the people who look down on our enemies. It's a FATAL mistake we keep
repeating like Groundhog Day over the decades. Again and Again and Again.
* Different doesn't mean inferior. We'll KEEP fighting to a draw or losing until that's appreciated, IMO.
edit on 4-4-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)