Pope washes women's feet in break with church law

Originally posted by Aleister
PhilliesFan, what type of room is he living in? You mention he lives in the Guest House with the other workers, can you give more details, that's interesting. How many workers live there (and are these like gardners and cooks and others?), what type of room does he have, can he have people over past 10 p.m. Does he have chores to do in the house

Pictures and info on St. Marthas Guest House
It looks like a middle class italian hotel.
The pope is in Suite 201.

More on The Pope at St. Marthas House
This has a picture of the 'sitting room' of Suite 201.

'Suite 201' has a simple bedroom and a simple sitting room.
Meals are 'in common' in a large room all together with others.
There is also a chapel in St. Marthas Guest House.

As for 'chores' ... being pope is a chore I'd say ... the guests don't do 'chores'.
That is for the staff who are hired to do them .. like the cooking or the cleaning.
(at least, that's my understanding.)

Wikipedia on St. Martha's Guest House

According to Professor Mary Ann Glendon in an interview with EWTN, the Domus Sanctae Marthae does not resemble a five-star hotel as the Western media often represents it to be; rather, it was designed according to standards of monastic simplicity.

Originally posted by windword
I'm sure the Papal guest house is a real dump!

It is a 'guest house'. It's not a dump. It's not a palace. It was designed with 'monastic simplicity'. You can see the pictures in my previous posting. I'm sure you'll be highly disappointed .. they aren't oppulant and therefore you will have nothing to whine about.

I am not impressed with the so called humility of a man who accepts the title of Pope, and believes himself to be above all people of the Earth.

I wouldn't be impressed with someone who thinks himself 'above all people of Earth' either. Good thing Pope Francis doesnt' believe this. And I'm sure that'll disappoint you as well. One less thing to accuse Pope Francis of.

His whole mindset, life and environment is an ivory tower.

Prove it. NOTHING in his life or mindset or environment has been 'ivory tower'. It's been a middle class argentinian life as the child of a railroad working immigrant.

I suppose that was somehow extra special holy of him to suffer so, living as a middle class individual, having never wanted for or had the panic of losing the basic necessities of life, warm shelter, a shower, a bed, food, medical care, transportation. Yes, he must truly have suffered for his position as head of the world.

1 - You know nothing about his life and therefore your assumptions are silly.
2 - A person doesn't have to suffer his whole life to be a good person.

You really should educate yourself on the man before you spew ...

reply to post by FlyersFan


Thanks for the infor and links about the pope's new residence. It's an easy walk to his public audiences too (right next door, where that huge statue lives and feeds). It seems simple enough, and is more or less a hotel. When I asked if he had chores I was thinking of a co-op house, like California's governor Jerry Brown used to live in. I bet the pope lives quite simply within his rooms. That he's saying daily mass there is interesting. And because the bishops and cardinals (and the rooks and blue jays) get to stay there on visits, wondering if a few more than usual of them start to show up because they can now rub elbows with the pope over dinner and in the hallways.

The best PR campaign ever. "Operation: Clean Up Pope"

reply to post by FlyersFan

I wouldn't be impressed with someone who thinks himself 'above all people of Earth' either. Good thing Pope Francis doesnt' believe this. And I'm sure that'll disappoint you as well. One less thing to accuse Pope Francis of.

How do you know that?

But this authority, although it is given to man and is exercised by man, is not human, but rather divine, and has been given by the divine Word to Peter himself and to his successors in him, whom the Lord acknowledged an established rock, when he said to Peter himself: Whatsoever you shall bind etc. [Matt. 16:19]. Therefore, whosoever resists this power so ordained by God, resists the order of God [cf. Rom. 13:2] ... Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff. ...........................

...all the faithful of Christ must believe "that the Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff hold primacy over the whole world, and that the Pontiff of Rome himself is the successor of the blessed Peter, the chief of the apostles, and is the true vicar of Christ and head of the whole Church and faith, and teacher of all Christians; and that to him was handed down in blessed Peter, by our Lord Jesus Christ, full power to feed, rule, and guide the universal Church, just as is also contained in the records of the ecumenical Councils and in the sacred canons.

Prove to me that this Pope doesn't believe that ^^^ about himself!

His whole mindset, life and environment is an ivory tower.

Prove it. NOTHING in his life or mindset or environment has been 'ivory tower'. It's been a middle class argentinian life as the child of a railroad working immigrant.

The structure of the Dioceses and the Vatican is an "IVORY TOWER"! (Where do you think that term comes from?) This is the life into which he immersed himself, willingly. Now he willing takes the title and all that goes along with "The Pope." People don't rise to the top of an historically evil cabal, such as the Vatican, by being good.

I stand by my criticism of the hypocrisy, hubris and utter arrogance of the title Pope, and the man, any man, who willingly takes the title.

Let Pope Francis lead his sheep to the ocean to make salt in defiance of oppression, and feel the strap on his own back, then I'll rethink my opinion of the "man."

Originally posted by gortex

Originally posted by Rubic0n

Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by jazzguy

 

would you trust him with your 8 year old kid?

Would I trust you with my 8 year old kid .
No

Judging a person on the actions of others makes no sense .

Going by their actions and your reasoning i should trust bush more then the pope.

How on Earth did you come to that conclusion from my quoted post

Because you are judging him on his publicity stunts. Then why discount G.W bush his publicity stunts and not compare them?


Do you buy G.W bush appearing in media kissing and hugging babies? It is very corny by now but the intent is the same as , the pope washing and kissing feet ,appearing all humble all of a sudden with a truckload of media around him.

Those are not actions. That is PR. You are hailing him much like how obama was hailed with the Nobel peace price (more people died under his rule then under G.W's, ironic) which was basically given for his the show he put on before he even actually did anything, how gullible are you then?

Wolf, sheep remember, beware. Which in your case you are not, you are already sold on a few photo ops.


You people will buy any Cereal that is supposed to be healthy for you just because the TV told you so !






I WILL judge him by his actions. The problem is though that he does not have any as of yet.

Originally posted by TheFinder
The best PR campaign ever. "Operation: Clean Up Pope"

It is so painfully obvious. And quite effective too judging by some fanatics here.

Give this man a nobel peace price too for doing nothing so far i say, Obama got one for even less.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I wouldn't be impressed with someone who thinks himself 'above all people of Earth' either. Good thing Pope Francis doesnt' believe this. And I'm sure that'll disappoint you as well. One less thing to accuse Pope Francis of.

You are trying to hard with your suggestions. The man has done nothing substantial other then PR so far so how did you come to that conclusion then ?

reply to post by Rubic0n

Because you are judging him on his publicity stunts.

Nope , I'm giving the guy a chance before I judge him , you and others are judging him on preconceived notions of what or who he is .

"All we are saying,

Is give Francis a chance..."

A family member of mine is irked that he hasn't done anything for the animals yet (with the name Francis and all). I wrote a satiric article on another website about the poor occupying St. Peter's Square asking for cable television and Ruffles with ridges. And he hasn't stopped war and hunger yet. So give him time to get his mojo working, and maybe we'll see something. Maybe not, but at least it's a roll of the dice with this guy that interesting things may keep happening.

Pope Francis isn't glorifying himself. He's showing people Jesus. He's trying to do what Jesus would do. He's being a good Christian. That's not self-glory. That's glorifying God by doing what Jesus would like us to do. At no time has he said 'hey I'm great' .. he has instead said 'hey ... let's be like Jesus and help the poor and forgotten'.

The Mass is designed to worship G-d, not to "show people Jesus" or to "be a good Christian".

Pope Francis is definitely glorifying himself. No one is talking about G-d - The whole conversation is centering on the papacy - and the man currently serving as the Pope -- Pope Francis.

He is not trying to do what Yeshua would do. His washing of the feet was a pure publicity stunt and a major break from the traditional liturgy.

If he had followed the rubrics of the liturgy, no one would even be discussing this matter.

The traditional pre-Vatican II Mass as advocated by Pope Benedict removes the priest (in this case, the Pope) from deviating one iota from the rubrics (liturgical instructions for the Mass) so that the priest cannot innovate and reinterpret sacred liturgy. In this case, the Pope purposely and deliberately broke from liturgical tradition so that the liturgy became focused on him and his actions (i.e., man-centered) and away from the sole focus of the Mass, which is supposed to be all about worshiping G-d (G-d centered).

As I stated earlier, this gesture of washing the feet was highly symbolic. You have to remember that these liturgies are broadcast worldwide now, especially on a major Church holiday such as Easter. The message is clear and simple:

He is telling the priesthood loud and clear that this papacy will not be about worshiping G-d, but about worshiping and glorifying man.

reply to post by CookieMonster09

He is telling the priesthood loud and clear that this papacy will not be about worshiping G-d, but about worshiping and glorifying man.

Or maybe he's telling them the papacy isn't about the church it's about the people and reconnecting with them .

Or maybe he's telling them the papacy isn't about the church it's about the people and reconnecting with them .

Which is just as bad. Again, the Mass is to worship G-d, not about "reconnection" or other secular matters. We are supposed to put G-d first (Remember the First Commandment?), not man.

It is crystal clear to me that this Pope is not interested in worshiping G-d, but in denigrating the Church to materialism, globalism, secularism, modernism, and carnal matters. I won't go so far as to say he is an enemy of the true Church, but it certainly is looking that way.

Originally posted by Rubic0n
You are trying to hard with your suggestions. The man has done nothing substantial other then PR so far so how did you come to that conclusion then ?

I assume innocent unless proven guilty. YOU are assuming guilty without any evidence. And I'm not 'trying too hard with suggestions'. I'm just stating facts. His entire life he has lived modestly. A 'fake' couldn't keep it up for 76years For someone to come on and claim he's living in an Ivory Tower ... that's ridiculous.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Pope Francis is definitely glorifying himself. No one is talking about G-d - The whole conversation is centering on the papacy - and the man currently serving as the Pope -- Pope Francis.

He glorifies God by being humble and by showing people how a christian should behave.
That's him glorifying God .. by setting a good example.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
It is crystal clear to me that this Pope is not interested in worshiping G-d, but in denigrating the Church to materialism, globalism, secularism, modernism, and carnal matters.

I think you are seeing what you want to see, instead of what is there.
That's the exact opposite of what he is doing and how he has lived his life.

If he starts calling for a one world bank .... THEN he'll be for globalism and materialism etc etc.
But there is no evidence to support your statement as of this time.

He glorifies God by being humble and by showing people how a christian should behave. That's him glorifying God .. by setting a good example.

That's the problem. The Mass is neither the time nor the place to be grandstanding to the audience. The sole purpose of the Mass is to glorify G-d, not glorify man. He changed the liturgy from being G-d centered to being centered on man. That's the issue.

There is nothing inherently wrong with washing the feet of the poor - It's noble in the proper context. But it's not something that you do on worldwide television during sacred liturgy as a symbolic gesture to "show people how Christians should behave". The Mass is supposed to be about worshiping and glorifying G-d, not "showing how Christians should behave".

Again, my opinion is that this "washing of the feet" was staged and highly symbolic. It's a huge slap in the face to the traditionalists that Pope Benedict was trying to court.

It's a terrible precedent and example set for the priesthood - Basically, Pope Francis is saying that the rubrics (liturgical functions) of the Mass are moot, and you can worship any way you like. This is the same gobbly-goop, liberal post-Vatican II philosophy that gave us the horrific Novus Ordo Mass, that has resulted in the utter destruction and rapid decline of Catholicism in the West, the closure of so many convents and seminaries, etc. It results in liturgical abuse, with Clown Masses, Teen Masses, guitar playing Kumbaya music, removal of the Tabernacle from the center of the altar, ad nauseum.

I think you are seeing what you want to see, instead of what is there. That's the exact opposite of what he is doing and how he has lived his life.

No, we've seen his kind before. His actions will further destroy the Church from within, just as the atrocity called Vatican II was an abomination. He's a Novus Ordo Pope. Let's not be naive.

If he starts calling for a one world bank .... THEN he'll be for globalism and materialism etc etc. But there is no evidence to support your statement as of this time.

Nonsense. We can already see by his actions what kind of Pope he will be. He will continue to degrade the legitimacy and authority of the papacy, he will embrace inter-faith dialogue with enemies of the faith (he has already done so in his papacy already), he will embrace liturgical innovation and personal interpretation into the rubrics of the Mass (again, he has already done so in his papacy), and he will be the modernist, globalist Pope that we are already starting to see emerge.

Power to the people, right? So much for the First Commandment.

Oh, and you will just love this excerpt from his recent speech on Easter Sunday:

This is what Easter is: it is the exodus, the passage of human beings from slavery to sin and evil to the freedom of love and goodness. Because God is life, life alone, and we are his glory: the living man (cf. Irenaeus, Adversus Haereses, 4,20,5-7).

He quite clearly is glorifying man in this passage, not G-d. He then goes on, as a true globalist would, to decry the different parts of the world that are facing strife -- the Middle East, Asia, Africa, ad nauseum.

Don't kid yourself. This is a man-centered, globalist papacy rooted in modernism. This is not a traditionalist papacy.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Don't kid yourself. This is a man-centered, globalist papacy rooted in modernism. This is not a traditionalist papacy.

So you don't believe that the Cardinals are influenced by the Holy Spirit to choose the right person to lead the church in a given time? That seems like a rather anti-traditionalist and anti-Catholic opinion to hold.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
The Mass is neither the time nor the place to be grandstanding to the audience. The sole purpose of the Mass is to glorify G-d, not glorify man.

Where did he glorify man?

He changed the liturgy from being G-d centered to being centered on man. That's the issue.

Where exactly did he change the liturgy so that it's centered on man?

There is nothing wrong with the Catholics 'washing of the feet'. This has been going on for a very long time. It's been shown in the press for a very long time. There is nothing wrong with it being there and people seeing it done. It's not glorifying man ... it's just part of the tradition of the church for the priest to do the washing of the feet. I personally think it should be 12 men as the rules call for (to represent the 12 apostles and Jesus washing the feet). But I don't see how he 'glorified man' by his washing of the feet ... I'm just not seeing that at all.

This is the same gobbly-goop, liberal post-Vatican II philosophy that gave us the horrific Novus Ordo Mass, that has resulted in the utter destruction and rapid decline of Catholicism in the West ..

I can't put Pope Francis in the same boat as Pope Paul VI. Two totally different people.

He's a Novus Ordo Pope.

They all are. You can thank Pope Paul VI for that.
He lied when he said the Novus Ordo is the same as the old.
It's just that simple .. he lied.

But if you are looking for a Pope Pius X type pope to bring back the Latin mass ..
it's not going to happen. The Novus Ordo is here. There is no going back.

Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by Rubic0n

 

Because you are judging him on his publicity stunts.

Nope , I'm giving the guy a chance before I judge him , you and others are judging him on preconceived notions of what or who he is .

edit on 31-3-2013 by gortex because: (no reason given)

Who is judging him? I and some others here are just not gullible enough to hype him up based on PR. I pointed out how you and the OP are already hyping and hailing him based on PR, not the smartest thing to do. Why would i or anyone hype him up on what he "seems to be"? that is what you are doing, haven't you learned yet?

You may have missed when i said that i will judge him on his actions, once he actually has some.