Pope washes women's feet in break with church law

page: 7
24
<< 4  5  6    8 >>

log in

join

posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 02:58 PM
link   


So you don't believe that the Cardinals are influenced by the Holy Spirit to choose the right person to lead the church in a given time? That seems like a rather anti-traditionalist and anti-Catholic opinion to hold.


The late Fr. Malachi Martin made it abundantly clear that Satanic forces have entered the highest echelons of the Vatican. The Novus Ordo Church since Vatican II is not the same as the traditional, pre-Vatican II Church.

As a result of Vatican II, we no longer have the traditional Latin Rite Church. The Church is now the New Age, Novus Ordo Church, and has all of the trappings of modernism, man-centered theology and liturgy, ad nauseum. This is why Catholicism is half dead in Europe and the U.S. Convents and seminaries are vacant. Catholic schools are being shut down in alarming numbers. Mass attendance is down. All of this started with the onset of the horrific Vatican II.



Where did he glorify man?

By changing the liturgy of the Mass from being focused on worshiping G-d to being man-centered - I.e., centered on the actions of the priest who was, in this case, Pope Francis.

If you ever have the privilege to attend the Latin Rite Tridentine Mass that was in place for nearly 1500 years prior to Vatican II, you will soon realize the liberties, innovations, and self-interpretations of the liturgy that are so common in our modern era. There is no room for innovation by the priest in the Tridentine Mass.

The Novus Ordo Mass, by contrast, is man-centered, and totally focused on the cult of personality of the priest. In the Tridentine Mass, by contrast, the priest cannot deviate one iota from the liturgical order of the Mass - The whole Mass, aside from the homily, is orchestrated down to the minutiae.

Pope Francis, I assure you, is not a traditionalist. He is a modernist, with inter-faith dialogue with the enemies of the Church at the top of his priorities.



Where exactly did he change the liturgy so that it's centered on man?


See above.




There is nothing wrong with the Catholics 'washing of the feet'. This has been going on for a very long time. It's been shown in the press for a very long time. There is nothing wrong with it being there and people seeing it done. It's not glorifying man ... it's just part of the tradition of the church for the priest to do the washing of the feet. I personally think it should be 12 men as the rules call for (to represent the 12 apostles and Jesus washing the feet). But I don't see how he 'glorified man' by his washing of the feet ... I'm just not seeing that at all.


No, this is innovation and self-interpretation of sacred liturgy. It is the shifting of the focus from the worship of G-d to the worship of man.

The washing of feet was never a part of sacred liturgy. The traditionalists within the Church were and are aghast at the Pope's deviation from sacred liturgy.

There is nothing inherently wrong with washing the feet of the poor - It just should not be done in the context of symbolism within sacred liturgy. The Pope could very well have done this elsewhere at another time. Instead, he happened to choose to do so as a symbolic gesture during one of the most celebrated Masses of the year - Easter time. This is not by accident that he did so.



I can't put Pope Francis in the same boat as Pope Paul VI. Two totally different people.


Pope Francis is a liberal, Vatican II, globalist, inter-faith dialogue, modernist pope, and in complete contradiction to his predecessor, Pope Benedict.



But if you are looking for a Pope Pius X type pope to bring back the Latin mass .. it's not going to happen. The Novus Ordo is here. There is no going back.

Pope Benedict liberated the Latin Mass - thank goodness - during his papacy. Now, we have Latin Masses said in almost every Archdiocese. This is the vibrant side of the Church that is still growing in the West.

Within a few more decades, the Novus Ordo will be dead, and the Latin Rite Church will be all that's left -- by birth rate alone, as the traditional Latin Rite Catholics have many more children than the Novus Ordo. The Latin Mass is anything but dead - Its adherents are very devoted.




posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 03:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by CookieMonster09



So you don't believe that the Cardinals are influenced by the Holy Spirit to choose the right person to lead the church in a given time? That seems like a rather anti-traditionalist and anti-Catholic opinion to hold.


The late Fr. Malachi Martin made it abundantly clear that Satanic forces have entered the highest echelons of the Vatican. The Novus Ordo Church since Vatican II is not the same as the traditional, pre-Vatican II Church.

As a result of Vatican II, we no longer have the traditional Latin Rite Church. The Church is now the New Age, Novus Ordo Church, and has all of the trappings of modernism, man-centered theology and liturgy, ad nauseum. This is why Catholicism is half dead in Europe and the U.S. Convents and seminaries are vacant. Catholic schools are being shut down in alarming numbers. Mass attendance is down. All of this started with the onset of the horrific Vatican II.

And does this all explain the precipitous simultaneous decline in mainline Protestant churches, as well? The last time I checked, none of those churches has anything to do with the Vatican or are affected by the changes introduced by the Vatican II Council.



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 04:31 PM
link   


And does this all explain the precipitous simultaneous decline in mainline Protestant churches, as well? The last time I checked, none of those churches has anything to do with the Vatican or are affected by the changes introduced by the Vatican II Council.

Most of the Protestant churches have gone evangelical, and the evangelical and non-denominational churches are very popular right now.

In the West, for Catholicism, the most vibrant and growing part of the Church is the traditionalist movement that celebrates the pre-Vatican II Tridentine Latin Mass. If the papacy had half a wit, he would realize the trends in this direction. Even the traditionalist seminaries are growing by leaps and bounds.



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 05:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by CookieMonster09



And does this all explain the precipitous simultaneous decline in mainline Protestant churches, as well? The last time I checked, none of those churches has anything to do with the Vatican or are affected by the changes introduced by the Vatican II Council.

Most of the Protestant churches have gone evangelical, and the evangelical and non-denominational churches are very popular right now.

No, they are not. Protestantism, of all stripes, is on the decline in the United States. See Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life -- the largest growing group in the US is "Nones", people who have lost interest in organized religion at all.


In the West, for Catholicism, the most vibrant and growing part of the Church is the traditionalist movement that celebrates the pre-Vatican II Tridentine Latin Mass. If the papacy had half a wit, he would realize the trends in this direction. Even the traditionalist seminaries are growing by leaps and bounds.

I suspect that this is wishful thinking on your part. I've looked for statistics, but the best that I can find is that perhaps 1% of Catholics describe themselves as "Traditionalist", and that growth in those parishes is almost certainly due to consolidation, as those who wish to roll back to pre-Vatican II find like minded people and priests.

I find zero evidence that there are any non-Catholic parties -- Protestants or non-churched -- who are calmouring for the revival of the Catholic church as it was before Vatican II, so the church going back would be to acquiesce to a vocal minority without gain, when 90% or more of the church is happy with the way things are now. You don't "grow by leaps and bounds" by alienating the vast majority of your members.

It's anecdotal, of course, but there is a Traditionalist priest in a nearby town -- young guy, but he holds Masses in Latin, has High Mass on Sundays, won't let people do the "sharing the peace" bit, and so forth. He is not well liked by his parishioners, their school was closed last year for lack of students, and the parish has been consolidated once, and is rumoured to be again.



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 06:38 PM
link   


No, they are not. Protestantism, of all stripes, is on the decline in the United States. See Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life -- the largest growing group in the US is "Nones", people who have lost interest in organized religion at all.


The largest concentration of Evangelicals can be found in the United States, with 28.9% of population or 91.76 million. Currently, 19% of U.S. adults identify themselves as white, born-again or evangelical Protestants, down slightly from 21% in 2007. That's not a "huge drop" as you suggest.

Unaffiliated = Non-Denominational. Many Protestants have gone to non-denominational churches, which are swelling at the seams.




I suspect that this is wishful thinking on your part. I've looked for statistics, but the best that I can find is that perhaps 1% of Catholics describe themselves as "Traditionalist", and that growth in those parishes is almost certainly due to consolidation, as those who wish to roll back to pre-Vatican II find like minded people and priests.

The FSSP - Fraternal Society of St. Peter and Paul - has a seminary in Nebraska. It has a long waiting list, because there are more applicants than slots available. This is one of the few traditionalist seminaries left in the country.




I find zero evidence that there are any non-Catholic parties -- Protestants or non-churched -- who are calmouring for the revival of the Catholic church as it was before Vatican II


Now you are making up your own opinions. I stated that within the Catholic Church in the West - I am not referring to Protestants or non-Catholics - the growing segment is the pre-Vatican II Latin Rite traditionalists. This is fact, not opinion, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with non-Catholics or Protestants. These traditionalist parishes, while in the minority, are on the rise, with most of their seminaries, chapels, and churches at capacity and growing.

Example, in France:

"In July, Paix Liturgique reported significant growth in Mass attendance in areas that have allowed the use of the older form (of the Mass, i.e., the Latin Tridentine Mass). In addition to the existing 132 “authorized” places of worship and 184 served by the canonically irregular Society of Saint Pius X (a traditionalist Catholic society working to resolve its differences with Rome), an additional 72 new chapels and churches have been allowed for the use of the Extraordinary Form. This represents an increase from 55 per cent in two years, compared to an increase of between 2 and 5 per cent between 1988 and 2007.

Even more unexpectedly, the requests to dioceses from the laity for the celebration of the Extraordinary Form (i.e., the Latin Mass), have also dramatically increased. Paix Liturgique reports that more than 350 groups of French Catholic families have formally requested the older form of the Mass from their dioceses all over France and more than 600 groups have formed to promote the older form and have asked for it informally, making direct requests to parish priests." - Life Site News, "Liberalism Killing French Catholic Church: Traditionalists Taking Over" by Reporter Hilary White.

In the Wall Street Journal, in a 2012 article by reporters Hendershott and White entitled: "Traditional Catholicism is Winning", it cites in reference to new ordinations in the Catholic priesthood in the U.S.:

"In Lincoln, Neb., Catholics constitute only 16% of the population yet have some of the strongest numbers of ordinations. In 2011, there were 10 men ordained as priests in Lincoln."

Lincoln, Nebraska is where the FSSP seminary is located. It teaches only the traditional Latin Rite Mass to its priests in formation.

According to The Economist, in its 2012 article, "A Traditionalist Avante-Garde: It's Trendy to be a Traditionalist in the Catholic Church":

"The Latin Mass Society of England and Wales, started in 1965, now has over 5,000 members. The weekly number of Latin masses is up from 26 in 2007 to 157 now. In America it is up from 60 in 1991 to 420. At Brompton Oratory, a hotspot of London traditionalism, 440 flock to the main Sunday Latin mass. That is twice the figure for the main English one."

I am afraid you are sadly mistaken. The Latin Mass is one of the most popular Masses among young families in the West, and growing exponentially.



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 07:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Unaffiliated = Non-Denominational. Many Protestants have gone to non-denominational churches, which are swelling at the seams.

No, read the article that I linked to in that post -- none = none, not non-denominational. They are people who go to no church, not an unaffiliated one.

While the number of people who believe in God has remained fairly consistent, the number of people who identify with organized religion has plummeted, particularly in Europe, Canada and the United States.


The FSSP - Fraternal Society of St. Peter and Paul - has a seminary in Nebraska. It has a long waiting list, because there are more applicants than slots available. This is one of the few traditionalist seminaries left in the country.

According to their website, they are only one of two for that society, and they only have 60 seminarians, so it's not like there is a lot of space in the first place. I'm not surprised that they have a waiting list if there are so few slots.



I find zero evidence that there are any non-Catholic parties -- Protestants or non-churched -- who are calmouring for the revival of the Catholic church as it was before Vatican II


Now you are making up your own opinions. I stated that within the Catholic Church in the West - I am not referring to Protestants or non-Catholics - the growing segment is the pre-Vatican II Latin Rite traditionalists. This is fact, not opinion, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with non-Catholics or Protestants.

Your facts do not change the fact that the overwhelming majority of Catholics are not interested in going back to a pre-Vatican II Latin Rite, period. If 1% wants to, and 99% doesn't, or doesn't care, then it doesn't matter how quickly it's growing, the Vatican would be committing religious suicide by catering to that minuscule number of adherents.

The reason that I brought up Protestants and non-Catholics is because the only way your idea makes any sense is if there was a lot of demand from them and would present an opportunity for church growth. All you suggest is cannibalizing the existing Catholic base, so there would be no growth by changing back, there almost certainly would be significant loss of membership, in fact, whereas leaving it the way it is, allowing priests, like the guy that I noted is a local traditionalist, to do their Latin Masses in peace, will not likely change membership numbers either way.


I am afraid you are sadly mistaken. The Latin Mass is one of the most popular Masses among young families in the West, and growing exponentially.

As I said, I can find absolutely no statistical basis for that. The "young families" bit is particularly suspect, absolutely illogical, and since Latin Masses are few and far between, your sample size is far too small to be considered accurate.



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 08:19 PM
link   


As I said, I can find absolutely no statistical basis for that. The "young families" bit is particularly suspect, absolutely illogical, and since Latin Masses are few and far between, your sample size is far too small to be considered accurate.

Good grief. According to The Economist, in its 2012 article, "A Traditionalist Avante-Garde: It's Trendy to be a Traditionalist in the Catholic Church":

"The Latin Mass Society of England and Wales, started in 1965, now has over 5,000 members. The weekly number of Latin masses is up from 26 in 2007 to 157 now. In America it is up from 60 in 1991 to 420. At Brompton Oratory, a hotspot of London traditionalism, 440 flock to the main Sunday Latin mass. That is twice the figure for the main English one."

Read that again. In the United States, the number of traditional Latin Rite Masses being offered have gone from 60 in 1991 to now over 420 by 2012.

That's about 8.4 per state, compared to a little over 1 per state a little over a decade ago. Some of these churches are 100% dedicated to saying only the Latin Rite Mass, and won't even say the Novus Ordo Mass.

That's a huge jump.

Who attends these Latin Masses? Well, go to one yourself and find out. In most cases, young families with lots (and I mean lots) of kids. It's the fastest growing demographic in the Church right now.



According to their website, they are only one of two for that society, and they only have 60 seminarians, so it's not like there is a lot of space in the first place. I'm not surprised that they have a waiting list if there are so few slots.

Once again, you're entirely missing the point.

While other Novus Ordo seminaries are closing, and Novus Ordo convents are shutting down left and right, which brand of Catholicism is growing? Traditional Catholicism and the Latin Rite arm of the Church - which -- for the last 1500 years before the hippie Vatican II 60's dope smokers ruined the Church with their Novus Ordo Mass -- was the Mass that ALL Catholics attended.



the Vatican would be committing religious suicide by catering to that minuscule number of adherents.


Uh, again, no. Pope Benedict actively courted the traditionalists very successfully. He opened up dialogue with the SSPX, and liberalized the Traditional Latin Rite Mass through his Moto Proprio in July 2007. Since 2007, the Latin Mass has taken hold in many Archdioceses around the world, including the U.S.

The current Pope is the anti-Benedict. I doubt he will court the traditionalists. He's a lib, modernist, globalist.



According to their website, they are only one of two for that society, and they only have 60 seminarians, so it's not like there is a lot of space in the first place. I'm not surprised that they have a waiting list if there are so few slots.

The FSSP is just one order. There are several other orders and groups within the Church that are traditionalist. Some are in union with the Vatican, some are resolving their differences, and some are at odds with the Vatican. There is a wide spectrum.



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 08:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
That's a huge jump.

I once worked for a company whose marketing was statistically valid, but vastly misleading, and they used the same technique that you do. Small numbers that double or triple every year can certainly be described as "a huge jump", but they are still small numbers. If there are a billion Roman Catholics, you'd have to approach 100-200 million "traditionalists" to merit interest, 500 million to merit a reaction.

You're nowhere even remotely close to that.


Who attends these Latin Masses? Well, go to one yourself and find out.

As I said, my only example is a local priest, who is not popular in his parish. The families who attend his church do so because it is their parish, not because they want the traditional experience, and attendance is dwindling. The last couple of Saturday evening Masses I went to there didn't even have a choir, cantor or organist, for pete's sakes.



the Vatican would be committing religious suicide by catering to that minuscule number of adherents.


Uh, again, no. Pope Benedict actively courted the traditionalists very successfully. He opened up dialogue with the SSPX, and liberalized the Traditional Latin Rite Mass through his Moto Proprio in July 2007. Since 2007, the Latin Mass has taken hold in many Archdioceses around the world, including the U.S.

Again, until you are talking significant numbers, my point still stands. There is absolutely no upside to your perspective, because you would drive away members by rolling back Vatican II (you'll agree to that, right?) and by allowing the Traditionalists their societies and Latin Masses, they are highly unlikely to leave the faith.


The current Pope is the anti-Benedict. I doubt he will court the traditionalists. He's a lib, modernist, globalist.

We're in agreement on the first and second points, I don't know that I would agree with the last, simply because we have given him, what, three weeks to establish his papacy? He definitely didn't seem to side with Liberation Theology, so time will tell how liberal (in the real sense, not in the "holy carp, he washed the foot of a woman!" sense) he turns out to be.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 12:31 AM
link   


If there are a billion Roman Catholics, you'd have to approach 100-200 million "traditionalists" to merit interest, 500 million to merit a reaction. You're nowhere even remotely close to that.

It doesn't matter. The Church is dead in the West. All that will be left soon is the traditionalist Catholics.



As I said, my only example is a local priest, who is not popular in his parish. The families who attend his church do so because it is their parish, not because they want the traditional experience, and attendance is dwindling. The last couple of Saturday evening Masses I went to there didn't even have a choir, cantor or organist, for pete's sakes.

That's not what I am talking about. A parish that only occasionally offers a Latin Mass to Novus Ordo attendees is not even in the same ballpark. Novus Ordo church attendees hate the Latin Mass - They don't understand it, and they never learned Latin growing up. We've lost a whole generation to the horrors of Vatican II.

What I am talking about: There are parishes that are exclusively 100% Latin Rite. Attendees know and understand Latin, and are deeply devoted to the Latin Mass. Most of the attendees have large families, so the younger generation is being exposed to the Latin Mass at a very young age.



There is absolutely no upside to your perspective, because you would drive away members by rolling back Vatican II


You'll never convince me. Vatican II was the death knell of the Church in the West. Sorry. As long as the Church continues down this path, it will continue to falter. We have record shortages of priests, record Catholic school closures, seminaries and convents closing, etc. The dope smoking hippie Vatican II'ers are happy that they now get to celebrate Teen Masses, Clown Masses, and the like.

Stop by your local convent sometime - if it even exists - and ask the sisters there what the average age of their sisterhood is. Most of the nuns are well into their 70's and 80's, and no replacements in sight. The habits are gone - all part of the New Age Vatican II. Gone is their Latin Mass. They might as well not be Catholic.



I don't know that I would agree with the last, simply because we have given him, what, three weeks to establish his papacy? He definitely didn't seem to side with Liberation Theology, so time will tell how liberal (in the real sense, not in the "holy carp, he washed the foot of a woman!" sense) he turns out to be.


I've seen and heard enough of Pope Francis to make me want to vomit. I am just waiting for the guitar and ukelele music to replace Gregorian Chant at the next year's Easter Mass. Or perhaps Simon and Garfunkel playing Kumbaya music.

edit on 2-4-2013 by CookieMonster09 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 03:23 AM
link   

Originally posted by windword
Pope Francis is not just another human being. He is a public figure that makes a claim to be the highest and holiest person on the planet and the keeper of the souls of this earth. He sets himself above kings, scholars, politicians, CEO's, and any other ordinary person.

When and where did he make those three claims?


His stunt of washing a few feet for a well strategized photo-op is just a public relations ploy of distraction and desperation to keep his "flock of sheep" from straying.


Why do you assume that this was a stunt when this man has a history of living a humble life prior to the Papacy?

Eric



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 03:30 AM
link   
reply to post by Seeker7
 


The last time that I checked, even approved Marian Apparitions are not required beliefs for Catholics. I can say for sure that she is not placed on equal footing with the Trinity. Although she played an important role in the plan for Salvation, she is a created and flawed being.

Also, I don't know how much money is generated via tourism due to the treasures curated by the Vatican. I also don't know if those monies go towards social programs, such as hospices, schools, etc.


Eric
edit on 2-4-2013 by EricD because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 03:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
His actions are symbolically telling the priesthood that his papacy will be centered around the Pope's personality, and not around the service of G-d. It's highly irregular and will have disastrous consequences if Pope Francis stays in power for an extended period of time.
edit on 30-3-2013 by CookieMonster09 because: (no reason given)


Or, you know, maybe he's leading his fellow clergy towards a more humble following of the path of Jesus and a furthering of their attempt to emulate their Savior.

Eric



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 03:42 AM
link   

Originally posted by CookieMonster09



I am liking this new Pope. He seems pretty nice.

Pay close attention. The Pope's actions were highly symbolic and purposely designed to draw attention to his papacy - a man - and away from the worship of G-d, the Divine. The entire purpose of the liturgy is supposed to be about the worship of G-d, not the glorification of one man - in this case, Pope Francis.


Pay close attention. CookieMonster is speaking in absolutes about something he has no personal information of. This is your surmising, seemingly based on a bias and a penchant for non-critical conspiratorial thinking.

Eric



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 06:19 AM
link   

Originally posted by CookieMonster09


Where did he glorify man?

By changing the liturgy of the Mass from being focused on worshiping G-d to being man-centered - I.e., centered on the actions of the priest who was, in this case, Pope Francis.

Again ... where did he do this?? Point to exactly where he changed the liturgy please ...
I'm not seeing how he changed any liturgy. It's still the same Novus Ordo mass ....

If you want to point fingers at someone changing the mass .. that distinction goes back to John 23 and Paul VI. THEY changed the mass and then Paul VI lied about it saying it 'was the same mass' when it clearly isn't. But Pope Francis himself didn't change any liturgy. He's using the same one that has been prescribed for 40 years. You may not like it .... but that's the approved mass that he's using.


If you ever have the privilege to attend the Latin Rite Tridentine Mass ...

I spent six months giving the St. Pius X Mass a try. The mass is MUCH better ... giving glory to God and taking the human theatrics out. But the people were awful. They were stuffed with pride that they were the only ones 'doing it right' and everyone else was going to hell. If a woman didn't wear a dress and a head covering she was looked at with disdain. And we were looked at strangely because we have only one (adopted) child whereas the others there all had oooodles. I found the attitude of the people there to reek and to be indicative of something that wasn't good. We decided to go back to the poor but conservative parish church in town. Even though it's Novus Ordo, it was healthier spiritually.


Within a few more decades, the Novus Ordo will be dead, and the Latin Rite Church will be all that's left -- by birth rate alone, as the traditional Latin Rite Catholics have many more children than the Novus Ordo. The Latin Mass is anything but dead - Its adherents are very devoted.

That's wishful thinking. The Novus Ordo is here to stay and it's not dying out. There are very few St. Pius X people out there and their birth rates will in no way catch up and/or surpass Novus Ordo birth rates. It's just not going to happen.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 06:25 AM
link   

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
The Church is dead in the West. All that will be left soon is the traditionalist Catholics.

Unrealistic and flat out wrong.

I've seen and heard enough of Pope Francis to make me want to vomit.

Because you are a die hard Pope Pius X person .. right?

What you are displaying is the arrogance that I saw when we gave them a try for six months. It was awful. True ... that mass is better. But the pride and judgmentalism that oooozed from those people were 'enough to make me want to vomit' (to quote you).

Look .... you may not like the Novus Ordo and you may prefer the traditional mass (as do I), but the fact is that Pope Francis has spent his ENTIRE LIFE being a humble man who turned away from the trappings and riches that his position could have given him. He has lived the spirit of St. Francis his whole life. He couldn't fake it this long .. he'd crack.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 09:24 AM
link   
reply to post by EricD
 


Those "claims" are Magisterial texts issued by the Vatican. They are basically the job description for the Pope. Pope Francis accepted the job and therefore the job description.

www.ourcatholicfaith.org...

The doctrine of papal primacy upholds the divine authority of the Successor of St. Peter to rule over the entire Church with ordinary and immediate jurisdiction. Two Magisterial texts are key to understanding its supreme nature and the obligation of all who are not invincibly ignorant of this truth to submit to Papal authority for the sake of their salvation.



... the faithful of whatever rite and dignity, both as separate individuals and all together, are bound by a duty of hierarchical submission and true obedience, not only in things pertaining to faith and morals, but also in those which pertain to the discipline and government of the Church spread over the whole world, so that the Church of Christ, protected not only by the Roman Pontiff, but by the unity of communion as well as of the profession of the same faith is one flock under the one highest shepherd. This is the doctrine of Catholic truth from which no one can deviate and keep his faith and salvation... [Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Vatican Council I, 1870]


The Vatican has declared the supremacy of the Pope and requires submission to the Pope for the Salvation that Jesus promised.


Matthew 23:8
But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren.
9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
10 Neither be called masters, for you have one master, the Christ.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 11:39 AM
link   
reply to post by windword
 


I'm not seeing 'highest, holiest and keeper of souls'.

Can you please refer me to where he calls himself this?


Thanks,

Eric



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 12:30 PM
link   


Or, you know, maybe he's leading his fellow clergy towards a more humble following of the path of Jesus and a furthering of their attempt to emulate their Savior.

Doubtful. From the Associated Press, reporter Nicole Winfield, in her article, "Pope's Foot Wash a Final Straw for Traditionalists":

hosted.ap.org...

"Pope Francis has won over many hearts and minds with his simple style and focus on serving the world's poorest, but he has devastated traditionalist Catholics who adored his predecessor, Benedict XVI, for restoring much of the traditional pomp to the papacy.

...One of the most-read traditionalist blogs, "Rorate Caeli," reacted to the foot-washing ceremony by declaring the death of Benedict's eight-year project to correct what he considered the botched interpretations of the Second Vatican Council's modernizing reforms.

.....The church's liturgical law holds that only men can participate in the rite, given that Jesus' apostles were all male. Priests and bishops have routinely petitioned for exemptions to include women, but the law is clear.

.....People naturally imitate their leader. That's the whole point behind Jesus washing the disciples' feet. He was explicitly and intentionally setting an example for them," he said. "Pope Francis knows that he is setting an example."

.....The inclusion of women in the rite is problematic for some because it could be seen as an opening of sorts to women's ordination. The Catholic Church restricts the priesthood to men, arguing that Jesus and his 12 apostles were male."

.....The head of the society for South America, the Rev. Christian Bouchacourt, was less than generous in his assessment of Francis.

"He cultivates a militant humility, but can prove humiliating for the church," Bouchacourt said in a recent article, criticizing the "dilapidated" state of the clergy in Buenos Aires and the "disaster" of its seminary. "With him, we risk to see once again the Masses of Paul VI's pontificate, a far cry from Benedict XVI's efforts to restore to their honor the worthy liturgical ceremonies."

As I stated earlier, Pope Francis makes me want to vomit. He is degrading the office and authority of the papacy.




Again ... where did he do this?? Point to exactly where he changed the liturgy please ... I'm not seeing how he changed any liturgy. It's still the same Novus Ordo mass ....


See above. Pope Francis broke liturgical law with this episode. As the article states quite clearly, Pope Francis' actions were highly symbolic, setting an example for the priesthood that liturgical law is moot, and "whatever you want to do" (so hippies 60's) is the rule of the road when it comes to the liturgy aka Aleister Crowley.

You'll also like this:

"Francis also received the cardinals' pledges of obedience after his election not from a chair on a pedestal as popes normally do but rather standing, on their same level. For traditionalists who fondly recall the days when popes were carried on a sedan chair, that may have stung. In the days since, he has called for "intensified" dialogue with Islam - a gesture that rubs traditionalists the wrong way because they view such a heavy focus on interfaith dialogue as a sign of religious relativism."

Key phrase: On the Level. Ask any Freemason, and they can explain. Masons symbolically meet "on the level". Fr. Malachi was right when he stated that Satan had entered the highest echelons of the Vatican. Welcome to your New World Order papacy.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 12:56 PM
link   
reply to post by EricD
 





#1. "The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God."
#13. "Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions."

#30. "The Pope is of so great authority and power, that he is able to modify, declare, or interpret even divine laws."


The Pope is the keeper of the "keys to Heaven."


The Roman Pontiff, successor of the blessed Peter, and the vicar of Jesus Christ, keeper of the keys of the heavenly Kingdom, of all regions of the world, and of all of the nations and those who dwell in them, ... (4 April 1417).



Stationed on the lofty watchtower of the church militant, the Roman Pontiff, Blessed Peter's successor, keeper of the keys of the heavenly kingdom, and the Vicar of Jesus Christ, having fullness of power and privileges over all the churches and monasteries and other religious places of the world in the manner of the Shepherd, the eyes of His providence over the whole world, the nations and all of those who dwell in them, ... (10 June 1420).


The Pope is "another God on Earth."


"Take care, so that the sheepfold may be one, it now is divided into parts. Take care at last, that we lose not that salvation, that life and breath which thou hast given us. For thou art our shepherd, thou art our physician, thou art our governor, thou art our husbandman, thou art finally another God on earth."

Source: Sacrorum Conciliorum: Nova et Amplissima Collectio, J. D. Mansi (ed.), Paris, 1902, Huberti Welter, Vol. 32, col. 761, Latin:



10. ... God Himself has set up a living authority to establish and teach the true and legitimate meaning of His heavenly revelation. This authority judges infallibly all disputes which concern matters of faith and morals, lest the faithful be swirled around by every wind of doctrine which springs from the evilness of men in encompassing error. And this living infallible authority is active only in that Church which was built by Christ the Lord upon Peter, the head of the entire Church, leader and shepherd, whose faith He promised would never fail.

8. Also well known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff, to whom "the custody of the vineyard has been committed by the Savior."



Furthermore We teach and declare that the Roman Church, by the disposition of the Lord, holds the sovereignty of ordinary power over all others, and that this power of jurisdiction on the part of the Roman Pontiff, which is truly episcopal, is immediate; and with respect to this the pastors and the faithful of whatever right and dignity, both as separate individuals and all together, are bound by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, not only in things which pertain to faith and morals, but also in those which pertain to the discipline and government of the Church [which is] spread over the whole world, so that the Church of Christ, protected not only by the Roman Pontiff, but by the unity of communion as well as of the profession of the same faith is one flock under one highest shepherd.

This is the doctrine of Catholic truth from which no one can deviate and keep his faith and salvation.

Source: Dogmatic Constitution I on the Church of Christ [Vatican I - Pius IX], Session IV, July 18th 1870, Chapter 3., The Power and Manner of the Primacy of the Roman Pontiff, Denzinger, The Sources of Catholic Dogma, Translated by Roy J. Deferrari, from the Thirtieth Edition of Henry Denzinger's Enchiridion Symbolorum, published by B. Herder Book Co., Copyright 1957, pages 453-454.


biblelight.net...

According to Papal doctrine, no one can enter Heaven unless they have submitted themselves to "The Roman Pontiff", the Pope. Thus the Pope has been made a "soul keeper", because no one can enter the Kingdom of God except through submission to him.
edit on 2-4-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 01:05 PM
link   


According to Papal doctrine, no one can enter Heaven unless they have submitted themselves to "The Roman Pontiff", the Pope. Thus the Pope has been made a "soul keeper", because no one can enter the Kingdom of God except through submission to him.

Yet another perfect example where Man is being given precedence over G-d. Not only is this papal doctrine the furthest from being biblical, it's asserting that Man can determine the destiny of a soul, not G-d. Nothing could be more blasphemous.

We have strayed quite far from the basic tenets of monotheism by placing Man ahead of G-d.





 
24
<< 4  5  6    8 >>

log in

join