Why There is No Proof of God - Only Evidence

This video does a fantastic job of describing duplicity and the reason for faith over proof. There is one thing I would add to this. Not only are we engaged with God directly by faith only, we must be born again. Our baptism into this world is immersion into the water so we can rise to new life above our old life. Baptism is a symbol for this process if involution and evolution. God is long-suffering and it is highly likely you have lived more than once. This video shows why a loving God would keep the wool over our eyes. A Shepherd does this to his sheep for their own protection. The wool (Sin) is then sheered off and washed white as snow. It is given back to us as our new Robe (Body) and Crown (Mind).

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I do love your explanations... S&F

I'll watch the video when I have time

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Love, LOVE this OP.... OP!!!!!!

Very inspiring..... listening to video now.

I don't think the Damnationist in the video realizes that he contradicts himself. If Hell is real, we fear it, and try to avoid it. I say we are only freed to express "radical love" by the realization that God loves us unconditionally, and is going to save us (and everybody) no matter what.

If I had watched the video first, I would not have starred & flagged.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


There are a few things in the video I pushed out, didn't settle well with me either. However, the OP is good enough for me tonight.

I will add another video that inspires me.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
I don't think the Damnationist in the video realizes that he contradicts himself. If Hell is real, we fear it, and try to avoid it. I say we are only freed to express "radical love" by the realization that God loves us unconditionally, and is going to save us (and everybody) no matter what.

If I had watched the video first, I would not have starred & flagged.

Typical Christian proselytizing must be incorrect then, that faith in Jesus is a prerequisite to salvation by him and his work on the cross. In other words as an expression of unconditional love that it's efficacious whether you believe in it or not where the only distinction is it's reception as a free gift in the here and now i.e.: only those who receive and accept it are in receipt of it's blessings and value and thus get to enjoy it's grace and it's precious nature whereas those who don't at the very least are saved from hell upon death, possibly reincarnated with Christ as the apex or joining of the karmic wheel - something like that.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
I don't think the Damnationist in the video realizes that he contradicts himself. If Hell is real, we fear it, and try to avoid it. I say we are only freed to express "radical love" by the realization that God loves us unconditionally, and is going to save us (and everybody) no matter what.

If I had watched the video first, I would not have starred & flagged.

Hell is a state of consciousness, as all of our reality can only be. Matter is not conscious as far as we know, but consciousness enlivens and animates matter to movement. Do you make your hair grow, the sun shine or the Earth turn? No, you only think and move your bio-mechanical unit called a body. This universe will pass away, just as the Bible says. Fire will consume it. What is hell? It's mind separated from God. God has stated that some are marked for separation forever from light and life. On the other hand, he states that others are marked for salvation and a new robe (Body). What makes the difference?

The mark of the beast is an easy one to see. All animals are selfish.

2 Timothy 3

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

There are 18 markers of selfishness. MARK THIS! 6+6+6=18

6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

Anyone who lives the life of selfishness can tell you where it leads. It burns bridges until you are afraid and alone. It robs you of your wealth and takes your life quickly. The candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long. We light the fire we burn by. We can also use that light on the path for others. In any case, what is the difference in a heart that has been changed by the name (Character) of Christ? That heart begins to give instead of take.

Hell is the result of separating the self from others. Heaven is the result of giving that life away as the suffering servant for others. Watch a few episodes of Andy Griffith to see this in action. This is a good episode to show the difference between the one saved and the one in need of salvation.

Double Post

Didn't really need the metaphysical lecture X2 but oh well.

Of God is absolute light, life, truth, beauty, justice, and the absence of all darkness and evil - best to just focus on that and forget all about hell.

True that we need to condition our hearts and minds, but not to avoid hell only to grow in love. Damnationists do not preach the Good News, not really.

But I still liked the video which made some very good points.

I love your threads. They are always very inspiring, thought provoking and this one in particular is also comforting.
I tend to believe that Yeshua/Jesus explained this perfectly in John 14: 2-3, but in order to understand what he is saying one must have universal dimensions in mind and really reflect upon what the words mean.
He seemed to enjoy talking in riddles.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
I don't think the Damnationist in the video realizes that he contradicts himself. If Hell is real, we fear it, and try to avoid it. I say we are only freed to express "radical love" by the realization that God loves us unconditionally, and is going to save us (and everybody) no matter what.

If I had watched the video first, I would not have starred & flagged.

Hell is a state of consciousness, as all of our reality can only be. Matter is not conscious as far as we know, but consciousness enlivens and animates matter to movement. Do you make your hair grow, the sun shine or the Earth turn? No, you only think and move your bio-mechanical unit called a body. This universe will pass away, just as the Bible says. Fire will consume it. What is hell? It's mind separated from God. God has stated that some are marked for separation forever from light and life. On the other hand, he states that others are marked for salvation and a new robe (Body). What makes the difference?

The mark of the beast is an easy one to see. All animals are selfish.

2 Timothy 3

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

There are 18 markers of selfishness. MARK THIS! 6+6+6=18

6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

Anyone who lives the life of selfishness can tell you where it leads. It burns bridges until you are afraid and alone. It robs you of your wealth and takes your life quickly. The candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long. We light the fire we burn by. We can also use that light on the path for others. In any case, what is the difference in a heart that has been changed by the name (Character) of Christ? That heart begins to give instead of take.

Hell is the result of separating the self from others. Heaven is the result of giving that life away as the suffering servant for others. Watch a few episodes of Andy Griffith to see this in action. This is a good episode to show the difference between the one saved and the one in need of salvation.

I like some of what you say above, especially the 6+6+6=18 from that Bible verse. I'm into Biblical mathematics, you see. However, I don't think you, or anyone else, can establish the existence of "Hell" as a doctrine, given the way the word has been substituted in place of other words in the Hebrew and Greek texts. The very word "Hell" comes to us from pagan sources, does it not?

reply to post by Lazarus Short

I like some of what you say above, especially the 6+6+6=18 from that Bible verse. I'm into Biblical mathematics, you see. However, I don't think you, or anyone else, can establish the existence of "Hell" as a doctrine, given the way the word has been substituted in place of other words in the Hebrew and Greek texts. The very word "Hell" comes to us from pagan sources, does it not?

Hell is a concept I have not cracked yet, but fortunately Christ did.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Hell is a concept I have not cracked yet, but fortunately Christ did.

Thankfully yes, because it would be absurd if everyone was destined for hell.

I think because of the work of Christ who's obviously willing to go to any lengths to retrieve a lost sheep, that Christians (as teachers of the Gospel message) ought to do away with the very notion of hell, because it just doesn't make sense to preserve the duality of it when God is an all-Good God in whom there is no such thing as hell and it certainly isn't very loving to tell people what they MUST accept OR ELSE. There's no love in that at all, only fear.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
This video does a fantastic job of describing duplicity and the reason for faith over proof. There is one thing I would add to this. Not only are we engaged with God directly by faith only, we must be born again. Our baptism into this world is immersion into the water so we can rise to new life above our old life. Baptism is a symbol for this process if involution and evolution. God is long-suffering and it is highly likely you have lived more than once. This video shows why a loving God would keep the wool over our eyes. A Shepherd does this to his sheep for their own protection. The wool (Sin) is then sheered off and washed white as snow. It is given back to us as our new Robe (Body) and Crown (Mind).

Forgetting utube mindspeak, Ive been accused of free associating to the inth power but there is a reason for it. You cannot expect to change reality using something drug in as an afterthought from the street that does not immediately combine/meld with your thought AT THE PRECISE moment in time you wish to alter the thoughforms of others. EWR, seriously. Have you studied Enochs Evocations (Majick)? We are not engaged by God at all; we suspect it exists only through the direct observation of our environment wherein we see evidence of Creative Design. Babtism a symbol yes; THAT OF FIRE, and only WATER can douse it (everything is backwards AND YOU CANT SEE IT). God is not long suffering as it has a nice Ordered place to enjoy its beingness, untouched undisturbed by the trials and frailty of Man. Wool as Sin, we make clothing, new skin body and drape ourselves in Gods Sin while at the same time It keeps the wool over our eyes, The Wolf in Sheeps clothing comes to mind, or at least its (T)ailor hiding its happy face grin (the wolf smiling behind sharp white teeth).

The Prayer of Enoch

Can the vessel of fear, fragility,or that which is of a determined porportion, lift up its hands and gather the sun into his bosom? Lord it cannot be, my imperfection is great and I am less than sand.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

I like some of what you say above, especially the 6+6+6=18 from that Bible verse. I'm into Biblical mathematics, you see. However, I don't think you, or anyone else, can establish the existence of "Hell" as a doctrine, given the way the word has been substituted in place of other words in the Hebrew and Greek texts. The very word "Hell" comes to us from pagan sources, does it not?

Hell is a concept I have not cracked yet, but fortunately Christ did.

For some of us. What about the others; it seems to be a major part of the fear factor we must avoid at all costs. No returning from hells fury once youve pitchforked your tent to the ground; no need to collect any firewood as flames abound at all quarters. I struggle with it as in I think we create our own version unique to ourselves for soul growth--any help forthcoming is appreciated.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
This video does a fantastic job of describing duplicity and the reason for faith over proof. There is one thing I would add to this. Not only are we engaged with God directly by faith only, we must be born again. Our baptism into this world is immersion into the water so we can rise to new life above our old life. Baptism is a symbol for this process if involution and evolution. God is long-suffering and it is highly likely you have lived more than once. This video shows why a loving God would keep the wool over our eyes. A Shepherd does this to his sheep for their own protection. The wool (Sin) is then sheered off and washed white as snow. It is given back to us as our new Robe (Body) and Crown (Mind).

Forgetting utube mindspeak, Ive been accused of free associating to the inth power but there is a reason for it. You cannot expect to change reality using something drug in as an afterthought from the street that does not immediately combine/meld with your thought AT THE PRECISE moment in time you wish to alter the thoughforms of others. EWR, seriously. Have you studied Enochs Evocations (Majick)? We are not engaged by God at all; we suspect it exists only through the direct observation of our environment wherein we see evidence of Creative Design. Babtism a symbol yes; THAT OF FIRE, and only WATER can douse it (everything is backwards AND YOU CANT SEE IT). God is not long suffering as it has a nice Ordered place to enjoy its beingness, untouched undisturbed by the trials and frailty of Man. Wool as Sin, we make clothing, new skin body and drape ourselves in Gods Sin while at the same time It keeps the wool over our eyes, The Wolf in Sheeps clothing comes to mind, or at least its (T)ailor hiding its happy face grin (the wolf smiling behind sharp white teeth).

edit on 28-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

Did you say God is not long-suffering? And yes, we will get an incorruptible body eventually.



Galatians 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Ephesians 4:2 - With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Romans 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

Hebrews 2:10 - For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Romans 9:22 - [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Romans 8:28-29 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose. (Read More...)

James 4:7 - Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Matthew 25:41 - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Psalms 37:10-11 - For yet a little while, and the wicked [shall] not [be]: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it [shall] not [be]. (Read More...)

Exodus 34:6 - And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

I like some of what you say above, especially the 6+6+6=18 from that Bible verse. I'm into Biblical mathematics, you see. However, I don't think you, or anyone else, can establish the existence of "Hell" as a doctrine, given the way the word has been substituted in place of other words in the Hebrew and Greek texts. The very word "Hell" comes to us from pagan sources, does it not?

Hell is a concept I have not cracked yet, but fortunately Christ did.

For some of us. What about the others; it seems to be a major part of the fear factor we must avoid at all costs. No returning from hells fury once youve pitchforked your tent to the ground; no need to collect any firewood as flames abound at all quarters. I struggle with it as in I think we create our own version unique to ourselves for soul growth--any help forthcoming is appreciated.

edit on 28-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

In this world, we make choices according to degrees of difference. Opposites are degrees of the same thing. Hot and cold are one thing--temperature. Do you like it hot or cold? Which is better? What is the perfect mean between? Hell is the fire of trials. Heaven is the mastery over what masters you. Are they real places? That depends on what we consider real. In this world, we think and move. The rest is an image we are inside. That image is created by God for our involvement.

See this thread: Involution and Evolution

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The Prayer of Enoch

Can the vessel of fear, fragility,or that which is of a determined porportion, lift up its hands and gather the sun into his bosom? Lord it cannot be, my imperfection is great and I am less than sand.

edit on 28-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

I have only researched the Enoch document quoted in the Bible. Enoch One is the only document that can be shown to preexist the first century.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The Prayer of Enoch

Can the vessel of fear, fragility,or that which is of a determined porportion, lift up its hands and gather the sun into his bosom? Lord it cannot be, my imperfection is great and I am less than sand.

edit on 28-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

If there is truth in this quote, it points out the fact that we cannot do it ourselves. God's grace and mercy takes us through the final stretch of that new body.