Loving Repentance

reply to post by AfterInfinity


"If self-degradation and eternal shame for being a flawed creature brings you fulfillment",

I don't know who said that they like that. That would be Hell on Earth

We expose our sores so that they may be opened and cleaned, not shamed and insulted.

reply to post by backcase

"If self-degradation and eternal shame for being a flawed creature brings you fulfillment", I don't know who said that they like that.

I don't feel like listing all the quotes that declare us to be unworthy creatures who are only fit to live by the grace of "God". If you know your Bible at all, you know what I'm talking about.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I do know what you are talking about, and I spoke about it in the OP.

If you view God as an oppressor then you should throw away your view altogether, because then it makes reality seem judgmental and cruel.

Jesus taught that receiving God's compassion is the balm that relieves our sores. And we thus bypass judgement as we leave all of our judgement to God, even the judgement of ourselves.

As we look forward to the future we forget what is happening right now. If we think of what has happened in the past we also take away from reality. Reality is the moment where we sense everything to be happening.

Everything is perfect because everything is in the process of becoming more perfect.

I'm not going to lie, my words sometimes will not make sense because my words fall short of the truth. Silence tells of more than every word ever spoken.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I think I love conviction more than repentance.

Conviction of what?

Theologically speaking, when convicted of my own sin by the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Conviction often gives the idea that God has no mercy.

I imagine that if I loved conviction more that the benign love of God I would commit sin more often.

Why would God need to accuse me of what I admit to Him? Sincerity is the first purification.

I feel God's love when He convicts me of my sin.

It tells me He is intimately concerned with my righteousness and growth.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I see,

You are then spurred to the movement of goodness. I usually feel conviction before my sin, so when I actually do sin, the conviction becomes worse.

So I practice in this Returning/understanding God the whole day, so that I do not have to find myself in the rut of conviction over and over.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I don't feel like listing all the quotes that declare us to be unworthy creatures who are only fit to live by the grace of "God". If you know your Bible at all, you know what I'm talking about.

I think I am pretty familiar with what the Bible says, but I don't know what you are talking about, even in a general way.
Maybe you can mention one, other than the ones I took apart in a recent post on another thread.
"Grace", I believe, is used to describe the gathering in or 'election' of those to be in God's religious community to learn to be like God in caring for everyone regardless of their current status in this worldly life.

reply to post by backcase

. . . you do not see the One Infinite God correctly.

Do you mean the "One" besides the other gods who maybe aren't so 'infinite'?
I, for one, don't exactly share the enthusiasm many have to create this picture of a universe completely controlled by a single entity who transcends the material in a unique way.
The word, universe, does have this sort of designating of an elevated status, this uniqueness and all-inclusiveness that transcends the existence of mere matter, where 'matter' is something thought of as a collection of so many bits of matter.
Despite all those wonderful attributes and 'oneness', it is still a created 'thing' and not God, or 'infinite' since it had a beginning. Religion, or philosophy, or science, all tell us that it will also have an end. The point being, don't worship it, regardless of how powerful it may appear to be. That 'power' it has but it is not a power of and in itself.

Humility is like knowing that you are only a single particle in the infinite ocean of life.

Too much focus on our 'littleness' is not true humility in my opinion because it sort of trivializes God, where by "God", I mean the being or beings who take the trouble to notice our existence and find it important enough to do something about it, i.e. humanity in general, and also on a microcosm level of the minutia of the individual being in that mass of humanity.
God does that for a reason and it has to be, in my opinion, for the reason that we are just as 'infinite', only in a different way, as our existence is in a different form than God's.

reply to post by jmdewey60


When I say the word "God" I mean the Creator of creation. The very source of life.

No beginning, and no end.

Not immortal, but eternal.

It is kind of wrong to even try to explain God at all, because God cannot be limited, not even by the word "god", truly it does no justice.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Who you call "a god" or "gods", I would simply call them immortals. "Immortals" are those who were born and have unending Life. Eternal is of One Who has no beginning or an end.

But He who I begrudgingly label as "God", sustains the life of such "gods" who I would call saints.

God sustains all things and therefore makes everything perfect in its inferiority.
As a common man I just assume my role as a common man. I am no more of an immortal than you or he, until I actually know reality in full, but for now my judgement is inferior and harmful, so through humility, I should not judge.

Good enough example?

reply to post by backcase

I am no more of an immortal than you or he, until I actually know reality in full, but for now my judgement is inferior and harmful, so through humility, I should not judge.

Don't know who you mean by "he".
We are mortal, and also not god.
We need to be "sustained", as you said.
Part of that being sustained would be a degree of insight enough to make judgments on our own scale for things we need to know about in our lives.
Included in that, and fundamental to the sufficiency of such sustenance, would be a view only possible from outside ourselves, of who and what we are, at least enough of that as we need for practical purposes such as developing hope and a value on what we do, and the value of the persons we interact with.
That value is increased, I think, when we understand the eternal consequences of them, our actions, the people, and ourselves.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I enjoy your thoughts man, and I would like to make every effort to keep this conversation from becoming an argument.

With that said, the "he" which I mentioned would be any other self, person, or "mortal". We all need to be sustained and the idea that anything at all is sustained concludes that Everything that Is, is through God's will and compassion. For if God disdained any particle of existence or non existence, it would immediately cease to be.

"Part of that being sustained would be a degree of insight enough to make judgments on our own scale for things we need to know about in our lives."

Yes, it is God's will that we have our own will and judgement, but to refine our will and judgement to be that of a child is to place ourselves in the hands of the Father.

And instead of acting with the value we have towards other people, we act with the countenance God has towards them. We become clear like water to allow the light to be magnified and shown through us.

Our consciousness is like a section of a body of water that has become cloudy. We must remain still very patiently so that all of the mud can settle at the bottom.

Once clear each fragment of our being may be able to see the light clearly and increase it within each member, as water magnifies light.

Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I see,

You are then spurred to the movement of goodness. I usually feel conviction before my sin, so when I actually do sin, the conviction becomes worse.

So I practice in this Returning/understanding God the whole day, so that I do not have to find myself in the rut of conviction over and over.

So are you agreeing that you adore conviction more than repentance?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


No, because after this "returning", that I mentioned I feel an exuberance of newness and being, where I think not about myself, my flaws, my imperfections and I feel acceptance and I accept the world in all of its flaws, imperfections, etc. and I feel like imperfection is perfect because it is in the process of always becoming more perfect.

I no longer feel the need to judge myself or anything because I know that everything is how it is according to God's will. Then I think, "why fight it," and feel a pleasant liberation.

reply to post by backcase

If you view God as an oppressor then you should throw away your view altogether, because then it makes reality seem judgmental and cruel.

Ah, the old faith trick. You think the peace is found in deceiving oneself and ignoring the reality of your existence. I have greater testicular fortitude than that. And quite honestly, I can think of a much better lie to tell myself.

Everything is perfect because everything is in the process of becoming more perfect.

How do you mean?

I'm not going to lie, my words sometimes will not make sense because my words fall short of the truth. Silence tells of more than every word ever spoken.

A half-truth is still part lie.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


In other words, you love being judged? You love shame?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


What you are trying to find in questioning me? I cannot tell you, I have tried to tell you.

Why? because you judge my words too quickly and dismiss them. If I told you anything else would you not just do the same thing?

Why do you even bother? You read my response to emit a reply, you do not read to understand.

Very well, I accept you as I do everyone, in all of your perfections and flaws.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

In other words, you love being judged? You love shame?

He takes a strong liking to Justice enacted.

Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

No, because after this "returning", that I mentioned I feel an exuberance of newness and being, where I think not about myself, my flaws, my imperfections and I feel acceptance and I accept the world in all of its flaws, imperfections, etc. and I feel like imperfection is perfect because it is in the process of always becoming more perfect.

I no longer feel the need to judge myself or anything because I know that everything is how it is according to God's will. Then I think, "why fight it," and feel a pleasant liberation.

How can a person even come to the point of repenting without first the conviction of the Holy Spirit?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

In other words, you love being judged? You love shame?

Of course, those are natural antedotes to pride.