Plasma actuators on aircraft

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

Originally posted by Bedlam

Really, if it could be made to work experimentally, LaViolette would be up for a Nobel. I'll wait and see if he's nominated.

Your entire premise hinges on one person being able to - figure it all out.

How far do you think one person would have gotten trying to figure out how to build the first atomic bomb? Do you know the resources it took to do that? And even with all those resources it still took ages to make the first nuclear power plant.

It took three years from just hearing that nuclear fission existed (by letter or telegraph) to a working nuclear reactor in Chicago and soon Oak Ridge.

Power plants didn't come until after the war because of economic & demand reasons.

Originally posted by mbkennel

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

Originally posted by Bedlam

Really, if it could be made to work experimentally, LaViolette would be up for a Nobel. I'll wait and see if he's nominated.

Your entire premise hinges on one person being able to - figure it all out.

How far do you think one person would have gotten trying to figure out how to build the first atomic bomb? Do you know the resources it took to do that? And even with all those resources it still took ages to make the first nuclear power plant.

It took three years from just hearing that nuclear fission existed (by letter or telegraph) to a working nuclear reactor in Chicago and soon Oak Ridge.

Power plants didn't come until after the war because of economic & demand reasons.

That is with all the resources of the most powerful country in the world.... and even then how long did it take from the time Einstein developed his theory and the bomb or a powerplant.. and the bomb was kept secret and not known publicly even though the science was already out there... And again.. the bomb could very well be far more easily understood than gravity... as I said gravity is not well understood at all. The fact that there hasn't been more work done to understand gravity is a huge red flag in itself...

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

That doesn't seem to make alot of sense.

If you say so, it must be true...

edit on 26-3-2013 by TheKeyMaster because: (no reason given)

He's a physicist. I'm an engineer that's worked on these sorts of projects. I'd give that a bit of weight, although I'm not trying to appeal to authority. If you try to tell me HAARP is some sort of airplane hiding radio jammer though, you're in for a slog, I know a lot about that place.

I don't think you're going to be able to support that theory.

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
That is with all the resources of the most powerful country in the world.... and even then how long did it take from the time Einstein developed his theory and the bomb or a powerplant.. and the bomb was kept secret and not known publicly even though the science was already out there... And again.. the bomb could very well be far more easily understood than gravity... as I said gravity is not well understood at all. The fact that there hasn't been more work done to understand gravity is a huge red flag in itself...

You're missing the point, though. Szilard didn't design the CP1. He didn't design the bomb. All he needed was some realistic physics and a pretty straightforward experiment with a lump of natural uranium and a crude gamma ray spectroscope. Everyone was able to replicate it, because it was real. But at that point, it was proven that chain reactions actually happened, and Bob's your uncle.

He didn't have to do the whole thing. That's not how it works. All LaViolette's got to do is prove he did his maths right and demonstrate the effect. He doesn't have to build a spaceship.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

That doesn't seem to make alot of sense.

If you say so, it must be true...

edit on 26-3-2013 by TheKeyMaster because: (no reason given)

He's a physicist. I'm an engineer that's worked on these sorts of projects. I'd give that a bit of weight, although I'm not trying to appeal to authority. If you try to tell me HAARP is some sort of airplane hiding radio jammer though, you're in for a slog, I know a lot about that place.

I don't think you're going to be able to support that theory.

A huge electromagnetic array that bounces energy off off the ionosphere to anyplace on the globe and you think it is implausible it could be used to generate electromagnetic interference... lol....

My view of the merits of the US educational system has dropped even further.. I didn't think that was possible..

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
That is with all the resources of the most powerful country in the world.... and even then how long did it take from the time Einstein developed his theory and the bomb or a powerplant.. and the bomb was kept secret and not known publicly even though the science was already out there... And again.. the bomb could very well be far more easily understood than gravity... as I said gravity is not well understood at all. The fact that there hasn't been more work done to understand gravity is a huge red flag in itself...

You're missing the point, though. Szilard didn't design the CP1. He didn't design the bomb. All he needed was some realistic physics and a pretty straightforward experiment with a lump of natural uranium and a crude gamma ray spectroscope. Everyone was able to replicate it, because it was real. But at that point, it was proven that chain reactions actually happened, and Bob's your uncle.

He didn't have to do the whole thing. That's not how it works. All LaViolette's got to do is prove he did his maths right and demonstrate the effect. He doesn't have to build a spaceship.

edit on 26-3-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

This is silly... you are assuming it is necessary to get the maths right or that that is even possible... every scientist on the planet "got the maths wrong" leaving most of the universe missing.....

And all he has to do is solve all that to prove that electricity is tied to gravity... I may be the worst person in the world with math yet I am certain some revolutionary propulsion system has been developed that at least functions like antigravity. The evidence is everywhere if you look.... LaViolette has seen this same evidence...

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
It's really disturbing to me this isn't getting more attention on this site.... this shows why dumbing the population down about science is so important and effective for the powers that be....

Try to remember, that people who break out with the astrophysics here get a stealthy federal overseer following them out for a while, and might even get a knock on the door if they start talking about classified technology. It's twice as scarce if they already work for aerospace and have signed some rights away. They aren't stupid to be quiet; they're smart. I don't know if what I say online happens to be in a classified government document somewhere, and the only way these plasma engineering guys get to even think about it is beacuse their company has connections and government funding. Nonproliferation.

Back on topic, lucky me I get to talk about how they could go a step further than just the plasma and fiddle around with sound to create another slippery layer around their vehicles. Musical plasma. I suppose this could be achieved with different types of coatings. It's mostly okay but it seems like a halfway mark in transport development, beacuse it's so hot. So we're flying around in reverse microwave ovens kind of hot. Seems sort of crude.

Originally posted by Sandalphon

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
It's really disturbing to me this isn't getting more attention on this site.... this shows why dumbing the population down about science is so important and effective for the powers that be....

Try to remember, that people who break out with the astrophysics here get a stealthy federal overseer following them out for a while, and might even get a knock on the door if they start talking about classified technology. It's twice as scarce if they already work for aerospace and have signed some rights away. They aren't stupid to be quiet; they're smart. I don't know if what I say online happens to be in a classified government document somewhere, and the only way these plasma engineering guys get to even think about it is because their company has connections and government funding. Nonproliferation.

This gets to my point though.... the country has become a nation of haves and have nots when it comes to science knowledge... it's very elitist. This is not at all by accident in my opinion.... I think we all know what the government is trying to pull with guns in this country - false flag terrorist acts to take guns away from the masses. If the powers that be don't wan't people to have "assault rifles" or box cutters on airplanes do you think they want the unwashed masses to have the technological know how to understand this subject matter?How can they keep their secrets if everyone knows as much as they do? And I guarantee you the people who are educated aren't much better off either... they are given just enough info to do what the powers that be want them to do and no more.. and even then everything is likely completely compartmentalized so others don't even know what they are really working on.. which is why these scientists and engineers can;'t possibly conceive their "plasma actuators" can in fact be used in full blown antigravity devices. How do you think they keep this stuff secret at the highest levels? They have to be incredibly deceptive....

Back on topic, lucky me I get to talk about how they could go a step further than just the plasma and fiddle around with sound to create another slippery layer around their vehicles. Musical plasma. I suppose this could be achieved with different types of coatings. It's mostly okay but it seems like a halfway mark in transport development, beacause it's so hot. So we're flying around in reverse microwave ovens kind of hot. Seems sort of crude.

This is an interesting idea... I wonder what happens when you can manipulate gravity? Can you control how sound and electromagnetic energy propagate? You may not have to worry about stealth if you can keep this energy from being released... Stan Deyo said this was why we can't see antigravity craft... it makes sense when you think about it...

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

A huge electromagnetic array that bounces energy off off the ionosphere to anyplace on the globe and you think it is implausible it could be used to generate electromagnetic interference... lol....

My view of the merits of the US educational system has dropped even further.. I didn't think that was possible..

Well, let's review, shall we?

One, it's a big HF transmitter with a phased array antenna. It mainly DOESN'T bounce energy off the ionosphere, the idea is more that the energy is deposited there. However, if you consider the F layer of the ionosphere at about 300km to be "the ionosphere" (it's actually pretty deep), then given HAARPs maximum 15 degree deflection from vertical, you've got something like an 160km bounce distance from the facility to the ionosphere to the ground, not compensating for the Earth's sphericity, which'll add a few more km but not much.

It's not even in the realm of sanity to think it can hit "anyplace on the globe" - a tiny bit of trig or a look at a globe with some common sense would tell you that.

Second, I don't think "falls off as the square of the distance" is really getting home to you here. If you could calculate for the defocusing effects and losses in the intermediate ionospheric layers, and assuming it all bounces and none of it is absorbed, then you end up with a ground footprint of about 160km x 300km with a power density of 5.7nanoWatts/cm^2 at 2.8 MHz, or at the top end of the frequency range, about 110nanoWatts/cm^2 at 10MHz. The array's more efficient at the top. That's running both polarities at once, in practice you'd get half that. That's for a maximum deflection bounce to get you the longest ground track, which comes out to about 160km from the array. Given all the other factors, in real life you'd never see that much power density and the footprint would be big and raggedy. That's not a lot.

Third, and your argument is a bit confusing to me so pardon me if I'm not getting the details straight, but are you saying that HAARP is blanketing the entire globe in interference at the same time? And that this is sufficient to mask a possibly intense local radiator at a distance? If so, then the average power density spreading 3.6MW around the surface of the Earth is quite low - the area of the Earth is something like 5.2E18 square cm, so if you divide 3.6MW out among that area, you get about 7picoWatts/cm^2. That's in the background noise. You could not possibly mask a local radiator with an incoming power density of 7pW/cm^2.

Alternatively, if you are proposing that HAARP somehow targets each plane to mask it, then you have to deal with the fact that it could not target anything past about 160km from the array. And even then, the power density is very low. And the array's exciter can only form a single beam, so you couldn't mask more than one.

Grant you, we pitched that the exciter should be able to split the array in polarity and/or quadrant, since you can't know what sort of physics you might want that requires more than one beam, sort of like AESA works. AESA can manage four on some setups. But HAARP does one.

It seems like sort of a waste to build a big expensive array that can only hit one radiator (how do you propose it track the plane?) and then can only do a crap job.

I think your conjecture falls flat on the rocks of reality, but it's just me.

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
This is silly... you are assuming it is necessary to get the maths right or that that is even possible... every scientist on the planet "got the maths wrong" leaving most of the universe missing.....

Yet, they understood that and are looking for the error. You seriously propose that you can just make up the math and it's ok? Really? That's what you're saying - you can just have some verbal description of what you think is true and that's all you need, no math, or you can make it up as you go.

Well, that IS the usual way CT 'theorists' work.

And all he has to do is solve all that to prove that electricity is tied to gravity... I may be the worst person in the world with math yet I am certain some revolutionary propulsion system has been developed that at least functions like antigravity. The evidence is everywhere if you look.... LaViolette has seen this same evidence...

That's all? Wow! I have about as much proof that purple flying monkeys are tied to gravity, and there's where his difficulties arise.

Why should you be certain of this? And not, say, certain that wheat grains become mice? People were certain of that at one time.

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
This gets to my point though.... the country has become a nation of haves and have nots when it comes to science knowledge... it's very elitist.

BWA HA HA HA AHA HA HA. Thanks, I enjoyed that.

What it takes is capability, and a lot of energy and persistence. Money helps too.

reply to post by Bedlam


From what I have heard the powers that be are into the occult.. and in the occult they believe there is order in chaos... so their goal is to create chaos. This is precisely what disinformation is - intentional chaos.

The definition of bedlam... Noun 1. bedlam - a state of extreme confusion and disorder
chaos, pandemonium, topsy-turvydom, topsy-turvyness

How could you go on that spiel above and forget this...

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
The definition of bedlam... Noun 1. bedlam - a state of extreme confusion and disorder
chaos, pandemonium, topsy-turvydom, topsy-turvyness

In the Army, one of my primary assignments was to blow people and their infrastructure to smithereenies, when I wasn't teaching someone how to do it.

The nickname Bedlam comes from that period, in addition my name is Tom, which sort of fits too. Once the old lady found out what the guys called me I have been Tom Bedlam ever since.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
The definition of bedlam... Noun 1. bedlam - a state of extreme confusion and disorder
chaos, pandemonium, topsy-turvydom, topsy-turvyness

In the Army, one of my primary assignments was to blow people and their infrastructure to smithereenies, when I wasn't teaching someone how to do it.

The nickname Bedlam comes from that period, in addition my name is Tom, which sort of fits too. Once the old lady found out what the guys called me I have been Tom Bedlam ever since.

She was well-read too.

Tom o'Bedlam was the disguise character of the good son, Edgar, leading around his blind (morally and physically) father in Shakespeare's _King Lear_. He was supposedly crazy but let out some truth to those who could understand him.

The character was well known in popular culture at the time, and referred to somebody who escaped from the mental asylum (name mutated to "Bedlam"), and faking being crazy (as is possibly so in _King Lear_).

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

This is an interesting idea... I wonder what happens when you can manipulate gravity? Can you control how sound and electromagnetic energy propagate?

You control propagation paths of everything. You'd get optical gravitational lensing, which has not been observed.

You may not have to worry about stealth if you can keep this energy from being released... Stan Deyo said this was why we can't see antigravity craft... it makes sense when you think about it...

Except that we can see B2 bombers.

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
I would watch this thread VERY closely.... if there are disinfo agents on this site THIS is definitely one they would target.

I would suspect anyone that tries to tell you electrogravitics aren't real.

There is no known scientific evidence for "electrogravitics". A few minutes with google shows the opposite with plasma actuation.

To see that it is a real effect read Paul LaViolett'es book Secrets of Antigravity Propulsion. It will show you why this information is so valuable.

Self-published book of nonsense, vs SBIR contracts and Annual Review of Fluid Mechanics. Hmmm....

Another way of making people ignore info like this is to have someone post in this thread pretending as if this technology is old hat and all the info is out publicly on it... a secret right in plain sight.

Are you really, really sure which is the

a) propaganda
b) delusion
c) physics

?

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster

Originally posted by Bedlam


It's been out for quite a while, just that it's sort of fringy and wasn't really addressed for aerodynamic modification until the late 90s. It had a lot of issues at first. The B-2 was the first functional retrofit in the US fleet.

Before THAT, it was used to augment stealth capabilities.

You just explained how it could be kept secret.....

Details, yes. Fundamentals no.

There is a patent from the 1960's which described the 1st generation Bedlam is talking about. Thanks to internet, it's open to everybody with a few clicks.

Secrets revolve around things like "is this principle practical? Has it been actually done? Is it out of the lab and in production? Can it be scaled up enough? What are the performance parameters? How well does it work under realistic environments? How expensive? How do you manufacture it?"

not "does the basic physics make sense?"

The basic physics of this "secret" was radioactive materials which emit alpha and beta ionizing radiation, which was a known fact.

reply to post by mbkennel


What if you take some subject matter that is very poorly understood and then make it a mockery in science intentionally.

From what I have seen you can discredit ideas just like you can discredit people or anything else. Especially if it is something most people can't figure out on their own or requires a lot of money to investigate.

Watch the video I posted above... you see that the government covered up the Roswell incident to take people off the real trail.. they either did that then or they are doing that now by covering up the Roswell incident with some other secret science...

It shows how disinfo works... how people can be fooled and not see the whole picture. The exact same thing is being done right now with electrogravitics and these actuators are the tip of that iceberg.

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
That is with all the resources of the most powerful country in the world.... and even then how long did it take from the time Einstein developed his theory and the bomb or a powerplant.. and the bomb was kept secret and not known publicly even though the science was already out there... And again.. the bomb could very well be far more easily understood than gravity... as I said gravity is not well understood at all. The fact that there hasn't been more work done to understand gravity is a huge red flag in itself...

It's true, gravity is not well understood at a fundamental, microscopic level. At the macroscopic level (planetary) it is exceptionally well described by orthodox general relativity. There have been a number of extensions and modifications proposed and none has shown any experimental evidence favoring them.

The problem is the lack of accessible experimental handles to try to give evidence.

The best thing I've seen is an expeirment by Tajmar which seemed to show enhanced frame-dragging with superconductivity, but it hasn't been replicated.

With nuclear fission it was the opposite, as soon as you had the idea you could think of lots of experiments to try, nuclear physics experimental techniques were rapidly maturing at the time and stuff worked. You can get counts, cross sections, scaling laws, change materials and isotopes and see changes.

By the way, Einstein had nothing to do with the idea behind the A-bomb. It's the specific anomalous properties of some nuclei which made it possible, and this was an empirical discovery.

With gravity, the experimental answer is virtually always "just as Einstein said it would and nothing else".
Expermental problems are vast, and we still have no direct detection of gravitational waves.

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
It shows how disinfo works... how people can be fooled and not see the whole picture. The exact same thing is being done right now with electrogravitics and these actuators are the tip of that iceberg.

What evidence do you have that there is anything behind "electrogravitics"? From what I've seen (the nonsense from LaViollette) it's the opposite.

What evidence is there that plasma actuators are related?