Daniel; Writing on the wall

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posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 06:01 PM
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I watched a documentary once on the comedian Frankie Howard.
It soon became clear that his gigs had a standard opening.
Whatever the location , whether college, theatre, army camp, he would explain his presence by saying he’d received a telephone call from the local top man, giving the man’s name and adding-
“You know, the one who thinks he’s God”.
The audience would always roar.
It was a safe bet that the people under the man in charge would recognise the description, or think they did.

The central theme of Daniel, as I’ve said before, is the clash between the will of God and the over-bearing self-esteem of the human ruler who thinks he’s God.
In the earlier chapters of the book, the king in question was Nebuchadnezzar.
Coming to the fifth chapter, we move on to Belshazzar.
The first three chapters were mainly about the God of Israel protecting his people under royal pressure.
The fourth and fifth chapters focus more on the kings themselves, coming under judgement.
The fourth chapter picked up the process of judgement at the earlier stage. Nebuchadnezzar was given a warning, and a severe punishment, and a second chance.
He had time to repent, and to think about the nature of the self-deceiving illusion of kingship.
What we see in the fifth chapter is the final announcement of sentence.

Belshazzar is named as the son of Nebuchadnezzar.
The Belshazzar of history was the son of Nabonidus, the last king of the Babylonians, and would have been under his authority (which might explain why he can’t offer Daniel more than third place in the kingdom).
If he’s not quite the highest rank in the land, his arrogance doesn’t fall short of what we might expect from a great king.

His arrogance displays itself in his contempt for the God of Israel, known to the people of Israel as the real ruler of the world.
He brings out the gold and silver vessels which had been captured from the temple at Jerusalem, and puts them to use in his own banqueting.
That is the very definition of profanation; taking something which has been set aside for God, and putting it back into circulation for ordinary human usage.
That’s without even considering what else might have been happening once they reached the “drunk and disorderly” stage.
And using the vessels intended for God was another way of putting himself in God’s place.

Meanwhile, to show there was nothing unconscious about this contempt, they were busy praising “the gods of gold and silver, bronze, iron, wood and stone”.
In short, these people stand for the idolatrous religious culture of Babylon, over against the Jerusalem worship of the Creator God.
The conclusion that Daniel reaches about all this is “You have lifted up yourself against the Lord of heaven”.

The Lord of heaven’s response comes in the writing on the wall;
“MENE, MENE, TEKEL,UPHARSIN”.

Why is the “MENE” repeated, when it’s only interpreted once?
Perhaps this was the best way of getting four lines out of a message which only had three elements. This book of Daniel is pervaded with groups of four- the four young men in the first chapter, the four figures In the furnace, the two sequences of four kingdoms- and having four lines in the message fits into that pattern.
Even in the middle of the English translation, you must admit, the “MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN” is more poetic than “MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN” would have been.

Another puzzle is why the Babylonian wise men were unable to read the writing themselves.
Perhaps the simplest answer is not to be too literal about “could not read”, and focus instead upon “could not interpret”. That is, they could read the words clearly enough, but could find no message in them.
Even Daniel, in his own interpretation, had to do some padding and “reading between the lines”, and the difference was that God had equipped him for this in a way which was not available to the others.

Daniel’s interpretation depended on finding two meanings for each word;
MENE- “Numbered”, but also “finished”.
Elaborated into “God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end.”
TEKEL- “Weighed”, but also “wanting”.
Elaborated into “You have been weighed in the balances and found wanting.”
PERES- “Divided”, but also “Persian”.
Elaborated into “Your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.”

This was not a “call to repentance”, but the announcement of a judicial sentence, just before the sentence was carried out.
As when the angel of Revelation ch.10 made his declaration to the world, it was a case of “no more delay”.
Perhaps the invaders were entering the city even as Daniel was speaking, for Belshazzar was slain that very night.

The central theme of Daniel, as I said at the beginning, is the clash between the will of God and the will of the ruler who thinks he’s God.
I’ve suggested elsewhere that this clash resembles the old conundrum; “What happens when an Irresistible Force meets an Immovable Object?”
The simplest way of putting the answer to this conundrum is to say that “One of them is exposed as a fraud.”.
And that sums up the fate of this king.

Insofar as Daniel prophecies a future confrontation between believers and the ruling power, the story is foretelling God’s final judgement on the pretensions of the latter.
The point would be reached where there was no more time for final warnings.
In any case, the ruling power would not want to listen (one of the reasons why there would be no more time).
“No more time” in Revelation is associated with the blowing of the “seventh trumpet”, which sets in motion the winding up of the whole operation.
There is no second chance for a Belshazzar.




posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 06:16 PM
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There is much wisdom in your pondering.

Thank you.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by occrest
 

Thank you for that encouragement.
You may like to know that this is one of a series covering the first half dozen chapters of Daniel (and probably throwing in most of ch11)



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 07:31 PM
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Thank you. For some strange reason, for about the past two weeks, I have been being compelled to read the book of Daniel.

It is rather strange, so much so, that I even asked my husband to purchase a new Bible for me. While he was out, he also bought me a book that came highly recommended to me by my daughter, "The Shack", by Wm. Paul Young.

Throughout reading The Shack, and working, reading news, reading ATS, the strange urgencies to read the book of Daniel have continued unabated. Imagine my surprise, or really lack thereof, when I see this thread title pop up.

Someone is trying to tell me something, or, perhaps wants me to learn something, but for whatever reason, the haunting continues, and read Daniel I must. I may return with something gleaned. Perhaps not, I am not certain, I just know it has now become something I can no longer put off until "later".



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 

I'm glad to have helped.
In that case, you might like to know that I've already done recent threads on the first four chapters of Daniel (and there are also threads around relating to odd verses near the end)



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Libertygal
 

I'm glad to have helped.
In that case, you might like to know that I've already done recent threads on the first four chapters of Daniel (and there are also threads around relating to odd verses near the end)




Thank you, I didn't know. Once I have finished reading, I will look up your other threads.

I have seen some of your posts in other threads, though, and I believe we agree on our discernmenf of the scriptures. Unfortunately, I took my education from others, hearing and listening to preaching, others interpretations. I have recently been compelled to re-read the scriptures again, for myself. This has been an eye opener for me, as I realized I have been misled and lied to all of my life.

Perhaps this is why I am being called to read Daniel. To discern for myself. Perhaps there is aomething I was misled on or did not understand, that I need to discover on my own. The past weeks have changed my life. This can only be one more card in the deck.

I look forward to your postings, but I feel I should read it for myself, first. Then I will get back to you and let you know.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 07:54 PM
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I always enjoy your threads Dis. You have enlightenment and sound interpretation. Thank you for your work and I look forward to continuing to follow your efforts.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by SunflowerStar
 

You are very kind.
Song of Songs and 1 Corinthians are in the pipeline.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


The I shall read ahead and try to follow.

2nd



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 09:07 PM
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This thread is the sequel to
The madness of kings
which relates to Nebuchadnezzar



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 09:52 PM
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There is a 16 hour series on Daniel presented by Chuck Missler.
The book of Daniel is my favorite book. Chuck missler doesn't leave any stone unturned in this series.
The fact that it is presented in a 16 hour series seems daunting, but it is not. It's actually over too quick.

www.youtube.com...

On another topic, Chuck Missler is the best pastor I have ever seen. I watch him almost every night for the past three years.
edit on 25-3-2013 by FingerMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by FingerMan
 

Thank you for that information.
However, if it was written down and readable, it would take a lot less than 16 hours.
Leaving much more time available for reading other things.
That's why i prefer written stuff to videos, I'm afraid.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by FingerMan
 

Thank you for that information.
However, if it was written down and readable, it would take a lot less than 16 hours.
Leaving much more time available for reading other things.
That's why i prefer written stuff to videos, I'm afraid.

Oh. Definetely read it! Chuck just solidifies the information and adds vital information most would never normally see or glean from the symbology etc.

Even though I read the book,,, I didn't know the background of Babylonian influences on Judaism and our society today. I also didn't understand that the wisemen that visited baby Jesus were sent by Daniel hundreds of years earlier. Lots of depth the this book.

But that's me. Enjoy your study!
edit on 25-3-2013 by FingerMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2013 @ 08:29 AM
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I'm diggin' that Daniel video.......flaggs for the thread....Daniel ....how cool is important readings these days....I can feel that something is about to change.! I'm led by Scripture and the reminders from The Spirit inside me.....

Dreams are getting more discipline"ing".



posted on Mar, 26 2013 @ 02:35 PM
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The book of Daniel was the historical shadow of what Spiritually was to come.That is it's parallel to the book of Revelation which is ALL written by "signifying"..none of it is literal.The abomination of desolation is mankind that has made themselves Kings and sit on the throne of God in the Kingdom that is within their midst.Revelation has nothing to do with future "literal" events of Gods destruction of the earth and mankind.It is ALL the Unveiling of Yahshua..Gods salvation...it is the foundation of the perfect 'equation"..the Sum of Gods word that is TRUTH...

all the number references are not accidents..and none of them are literal.....666 is not Satan or the beast with ten heads...1260 days is not 3 1/2 years of cataclysmic earthly tribulation there is no 1,000 reign on earth by the "saints that will be kings and preists.There is only one place in scripture it says that in one chapter Rev 20.(and a very convoluted interpretation of the whole chapter it is)...because it is signified...it means something else...all those numbers are significant and NONE of them mean what the vast majority of "prophecy teachers" believe they mean.

No one is going to understand that book until it is written in "their book"..it is the book of Salvation.....a process that everyman is going through.Yes contrary to popular belief the creator God of EVERYTHING is saving (salvation delivering" EVERYTHING.....NONE will be lost...there is no eternal hell punishment...that is blasphemous religious perversion of the carnal mind.Yahshua is the SAVIOR of all..who believes that report...they have turned him into a a merciless sadistic extortionist that tortures the vast majority of his creation FOREVER completely unjustly.It is "almost" mind boggling how many sincere folks believe God is like that.

yes Daneil accurately saw the unveiling of Yahshua in EVERY man through the reality of King Nebuchadnezzar.Man is the abomination of desolation that detest the holy things of God and sits on Gods throne.. and IS the BEAST that will graze the fields for 7 years (it signifying not literal) then will come to their senses...and yes GOD the sovereign and ONLY God is CAUSING it ALL..ALL for Gods purposes..God the savoir of ALL men.



posted on Mar, 26 2013 @ 04:27 PM
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The 1,000 year is mentioned all over the place......in Scripture......I agree with you on that 1Tim 4-10 though.....



posted on Mar, 26 2013 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by Rex282
 

AS before, i would say that you're only partly right.
One oif the effects of working through Daniel has been the throwing of fresh light, on the meaning of sequnces in Revelation, as i recognise correspondences.
However, it is very clearly indicated in Revelation, more than once, that there are those who do NOT enter "the new Jerusalem".
A division is made between those who do and those who don't.
The idea that everybody gets in is wishful thinking, and wishful thinking is not a sound way of interpreting the Bible.



posted on Mar, 26 2013 @ 07:23 PM
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The Lord of heaven’s response comes in the writing on the wall;
“MENE, MENE, TEKEL,UPHARSIN”.

Modern scholars have identified these words as the Aramaic names for coins, which is interesting, but doesn't seem to get us any further forward in the interpretation.
However, it does occur to me that there is a rough parallel between "A coin [TEKEL}, two coins [MENE MENE] and half a coin [PERES}", on the one hand, and the "Time, two times, and half a time" found at the end of the book.



posted on Mar, 26 2013 @ 10:14 PM
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Please show where the scriptures say there is a literal 1,000 year reign of Yahshua on the Earth with his elect .There are at best extrapolations of extrapolations turned into the doctrines of men.Even Rev. 20 doesn't say that.Man has manipulated scriptures to make their facts fit their theory and there are literally millions to billions of variations that contradict each other everyone believing their "theory" of theology is 100% truth.The TRUTH is 100% truth.... a little leaven of the Pharisees leavens the whole loaf.

What I said is not wishful thinking and if it was at least it is wishful thinking with purpose..the salvation of ALL men where as yours (and millions to billions of others) is the torment of the majority of humanity for eternity inflicted by what is believed to be the God of Love and mercy and justice.If Yahshua is not the savior of ALL men he didn't do what the Father sent him to do and is a complete failure and fraud.Here are just a few of the many scriptures that say Yahshua is NOT a failure or a fraud or a sadist/ terrorist ready to send any one to the eternal torture of HELL that don't believe in him..... however the only way to "believe" (know) is by revelation from the Father... flesh and blood CANNOT reveal who the christ is and what he does.

(1 Tim. 2:4)God WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and come to the knowledge of the truth". 1 Tim 4:10 For to this we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the SAVIOR of ALL men, especially[the few are chosen] of those who believe. (Eph. 1:10-11)God works ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL.".John 12:32)And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (Grk. drag) ALL men unto Me".Col 1:20 And through Him having made peace through the blood of His cross, it pleased the Father to reconcile ALL things to Himself through Him, whether the things on earth or the things in Heaven.Php 2:10-11 That at the name[means nature .....the God of salvation] of Jesus(Yahshua ... .Gods salvation] EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Yes there are "the many are called (and the many are not called) that will not enter in(to their midst) the New Jerusalem(the Kingdom Of God)...through the physical realm..... that is only for the "few are chosen" elect .....The elect are NOT the 2 billion of the 8 billion on earth whom are " the many are called "christain church .God has called them to believe a lie(religion/religion) and to enter into the wide gate of destruction through religion/religion.The MANY will say Lord, Lord didn't "I"(that is wishful thinking)......and his answer will clearly be ....I never knew you...

NO ONE chooses Yahshua .....Yahshua chooses them..when the FATHER draws (drags ) them....there is nothing to be boastful about...it is 100% the work and will of God.The few that are of the elect will "mature" to be 144 thousand(it is not a quantity number it is a "quality") ..a state of being....Phi (1:618.)the Golden ratio(relationship) or the Golden measuring reed of Rev 21.They are the firsts fruits from the FIRST ("1") fruit ..The Seed....Yahshua....EVERYTHING is about growth...salvation.

It is perverted carnal thinking that God cannot save ALL of his creation and that the "doctrines" of mens "will" would trump God's will.It should be obvious by Gods NATURE (name) that to SAVE (deliver ) is his purpose ...not destroy .There is NO condemnation.The only thing that is being destroyed is death...the abomination of desolation.....the sons of perdition who sit on Gods throne "proclaiming" to be God (by judging and proclaiming things like pronouncing folks to be punished in eternal hell)..a cursory reading of Matthew 7:1 should be a clue but it only blinds those that THINK they can see...no I have no "wishful" thinking about the sovereign God .The Truth is all that is needed.The scriptures are a witness.The Truth is confirmed and comes from the Father through unveiling(revelation).

"God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end. You have been weighed in the balances and found wanting.Your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.”



posted on Mar, 26 2013 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by Rex282
 


hey Rex my names's Rex, too......the 7 days for man to be around in the bodily realm....the 7th day is the 7th 1000 years....






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