Vatican Insider - Pope Francis replaces 'Throne of Peter' with simple chair

For those interested ... The 'Throne of Peter' in Clementine Hall, where popes have received delegates from other faiths and countries, has been replaced with a simple chair. To some reading this, it won't sound like much but it's BIG. The Throne of Peter represented apostolic succession from Jesus Himself through Peter and unending down to each Pope. That symbol is gone.

He has not renounced apostolic succession. I don't think he will. But then again, I didn't think anyone would be rid of the "Throne of Peter", either.

There are those who feel that the Jesuits are trying to take over the world and that Pope Francis, who is a Jesuit, will lead the charge. Seems to me that he is doing just the opposite. He's going back to the roots of Christianity. Blessed are the peacemakers .... Blessed are the poor in spirit ... that kind of thing.

Side note ... he's still wearing his old black cardinal shoes and has not put on the red leather shoes that the pope traditionally wears. He looks more like a parish priest than a pope to me. Not like someone trying to take over the world.

Vatican Insider - Pope Francis Cuts Back on Apartment

He will occupy fewer rooms in order to live "in simplicity". The throne has already been replaced with a chair
(vatican insider)Bergoglio's spending review. Each gesture he makes simplifies the institution and draws the papacy closer to the faithful, while religious and political leaders pay homage to Francis' "revolution". Obama has written him a letter, offering his cooperation; Dilma Rousseff defines him a great Pontiff, and then, at the end of the hearing, he jokes: "If the Pope is Argentinean, God is Brazilian."

The "Bergoglio style" will also apply to the Apartment. "Here there is room for 300 people," Francis comments in surprise. The Apostolic Palace is undergoing renovations and he has asked to live "with simplicity and with sharing." On Holy Thursday, the poor will then be the central figures of the mass in Coena Domini. Bergoglio gave instructions to the Diocesan Caritas chapter to distribute invitation cards among the poor. Another break with the protocol concerns the Clementine Hall (where the Pope received the delegates of other denominations) where the throne was replaced by a simple seat.

(not sure if this goes into religious conspiracies or religious discussion)

reply to post by FlyersFan



Ah yes, Pope 'Poor Church'...
Stealthily conditioning the masses to accept lower standards of living.

I am an atheist, My wife is a Christian. Neither of us are Catholic. I have never really paid much attention to any popes in my life, until now.


I admire this man. I think he is EXACTLY what the world needs at this time.


For the first time in my 50 plus years of life I FEEL there is hope for the future.

reply to post by FlyersFan


He sounds like the perfect deception to me.

Bringing him in and making the Vatican look different is actually expected especially in light of the recent past. The are just making it all look better when its in fact the same.

reply to post by MamaJ


I think just the opposite of you, I honestly think he is a humble servant to his calling.

I think he is just what he says he is, not only does he talk the talk, but he walks the walk as well ( so far ).


I wish him the best and a long and healthy life. He is becoming for lack of a better word my "Hero."

That's interesting. To go back to the real roots of Christianity though he would have to do a lot more. Such as get rid of the distinction between the laity and the clergy. Jesus condemned class distinctions and forbade that anyone be called Father. The title pope comes from the latin word papa, which is what the bishop was called, and papa means father. So the very title that he carries is sacrilegious and anti-christ. (ETA: Actually in Spanish the Pope is known as the Papa, so in Spanish today he is still literally called "the Father".

That is a start but a lot more, they would have to end indulgences, get rid of mystic practices such as using the rosary (Jesus told his followers NOT to say the same things over and over again when praying), Mary worship, the false pagan idea at the soul is immortal, the false pagan Trinity doctrine, the worship and use of the pagan cross (Jesus died on a stake not a cross).

Then they would have to start enforcing the rules and principles in the Bible such as forbidding idolatry, ending infant baptism (which is a farce, Jesus wasn't baptized as an infant and no Christian in the Bible was baptized until they willingly gave themselves to do God's will, something a baby cannot decide to do).

Then they will have to start enforcing the Christian code in the Bible. For example they would have to expel all professing members that are practicing gross sin worthy of death such as fornication, theifery, drunkenness, rivalries, homosexuals, etc:

(1 Corinthians 6:9, 10) What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.

I once met a Jesuit who converted and became a Jehovah's Witness. After studying for years at the Vatican and serving many years in Latin America he said he learned more about the Bible in a couple of months studying with Jehovah's Witnesses than he did in his entire time studying in the Vatican.

He for example really did not know that Jesus said not to call anyone father (in a spiritual sense):

(Matthew 23:9, 10) . . .Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ.

He said he tried to change things within the Church but he realized that he couldn't, the corruption was too great (this he was getting personal talking about the pilfering of money for personal use he saw a lot of bishops doing.) They told him he needed to stay in the Church to help reform it, he said no, he would rather just go with the people who were already practicing what the Bible teaches, for it was obvious that God is with his people.

There are honest-hearted members inside of Christendom still. When they are shown the truth they will respond to it.

My wife used to call on the bishop of the Catholic Church here, as he likes reading our magazines. He once told her, "you know you are right. What we are doing is wrong," he was referring to idol worship at that particular time. And she asked him why he does it then, he said if he didn't the people would get in an uproar, it's what they want. Then she asked him then why doesn't leave the Church then*, and his response had to do with his life-style and money. He would loose a prestigious position, and a lot of money if he did. Too bad for him.

Be wary of the man who bearing gifts

Its quite stunning how this pope appeals to the masses...

Soon, very soon, this thread will be inundated with those that will claim this as solid and irrefutable evidence that this means he is the Antichrist.

3...2...1...

Baby steps that seem to be going in a different direction from his predecessors. I can see where a few more acts like this and much division will arise. Some stones are hard to get in motion and i think he is getting the ball rolling so to speak.

reply to post by SubAce

The pope is NOT going to make the Catholic Church into the Jehovahs Witness'.
Definately not going to happen.
I'm not going to go through your post to refute each and every belief of yours.
Let's just say .. the Catholic church has reasons for each of it's beliefs.

Originally posted by MamaJ
He sounds like the perfect deception to me.

The guy is 76 years old .. has one lung .. has lived all his life in simplicity which is directly opposite of what life in the Vatican is like. When he lives simply and moves the church in that direction ... well ... for now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. I am looking forward to seeing where he goes with his changes.

He's only been in a few days and so much has changed.
I'm wondering what the next few months will bring.

So far .. I like him.

Originally posted by IamAbeliever
Soon, very soon, this thread will be inundated with those that will claim this as solid and irrefutable evidence that this means he is the Antichrist.

3...2...1...

0...


Actually, considering every Pope has played the political hand, looked the other way each time one for their own commits a crime, affected global policies to the cults advantage, and pretty much left the Flock to fend for themselves, I'd say they are all the Antichrist in one way or another.

Originally posted by thedigirati
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I think just the opposite of you, I honestly think he is a humble servant to his calling.

I think he is just what he says he is, not only does he talk the talk, but he walks the walk as well ( so far ).


I wish him the best and a long and healthy life. He is becoming for lack of a better word my "Hero."

You are not alone in your thinking. You are very hopeful and think he is going to go back and be a representative of Christ. He will no doubt be able to fool the masses when in fact the masses see him as you do or already do.

I wish him the best as well, but I am not buying it hook line and sinker. It will take a lot to get me to buy into the parade.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by SubAce

 

The pope is NOT going to make the Catholic Church into the Jehovahs Witness'.
Definately not going to happen.
I'm not going to go through your post to refute each and every thing belief of yours.
Let's just say .. the Catholic church has reasons for each of it's beliefs.

You said go back to the root of Christianity. Christians use the Bible and believe it is the infallible word of God. What one bases their beliefs on if they claim to believe in the Bible, is not man-made tradition, but God's word, the Bible.

Jesus told the religious leaders of his day the same he would say to the religious leaders of Christendom today:

(Matthew 15:6-8) . . .And so YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. 7 YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me.


Yes, those hypocrites make God's word invalid because of their tradition. They claim to worship God, but their heart is far removed from God's word:

(Matthew 15:9) . . .It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.’. . .

If they were to go back to the roots of Christianity they would have to get rid of all of their traditions that invalidate God's word, for example the following command:

(Matthew 23:9, 10) . . .Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ.

That is one example. Here is another Biblical example of a Godly teaching:

(1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Instead of celibacy, a bishop should be the husband of one wife. God did not forbid anyone to marry. To marry is a Christian thing, even for the bishop. The forbidding of marriage is a man-made tradition that invalidates God's word, just as Jesus rightly said about those religious hypocrites, and actually the Bible exposes the teaching of forbidding to marry as being inspired by demons:

(1 Timothy 4:1, 3.)  However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons...forbidding to marry.

When you say you don't want them to become like Jehovah's Witnesses you are stating you don't want them to return to what the Bible teaches. For if you read the Bible and compare it to all so-called Christian religions we don't just preach, we actually know what the Bible says and put it into practice.

None of what I quoted to you above as correct and true is my opinion, it is God's infallible word of truth. If your traditions or those of others to not conform to God's word, it is not God who is wrong.

And that is not my interpretation. If Jesus said not to call anyone father, I am not interpreting that to say anything other than that you should not call anyone on earth your father or your leader.

If the Bible states:

(Ezekiel 18:4) . . .The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.

It is not my opinion that the soul dies. It is not an interpretation to say that. It is to believe what it says. So if someone teaches that the soul is immortal, that teaching is false, for it is not in accord with scripture.

That's where Jehovah's Witnesses differ from all other so-called Christian religions. We read the Bible and believe what it says and then do what it says. We do not try to twist it to conform to our way of beliefs or thinking, we conform our thinking to God's word.

Thus you can see, if you want to go back to the primitive form of Christianity you would have to start worshiping like a Jehovah's Witness, including going house to house and to the public places to witness:

(Acts 5:42) . . .And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.

(Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house.

Originally posted by SubAce
You said go back to the root of Christianity.

Which is not the Jehovahs Witness'. It simply is not.

Founder of the Jehovahs Witness' - Charles Taze Russell
Born in 1852 and worked in Pittsburgh as a haberdasher.
He was raised a Congregationalist and later became agnostic.
He also sold 'miracle wheat' and "millennial beans'.

History of Jehovah's Witnesses

Again .. The Catholic church isn't going to become Jehovahs Witness'.
And I'm not going to go through each and every belief of yours that you posted.
There are doctrinal errors ... but this isn't the place for a scripture spitting contest.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Here are also a few links about Jehovah's Witnesses and our history:

Bearing Thruogh Witness

More about us

And I whole-heartedly agree with you. I know the Catholic Church will not go back to what the Bible teaches. On that we can agree. It is sad, but they will not.

And please forgive me if the scriptures were direct. It is not my intention to hurt with the truth, as happens. It is my zeal and love for the truth, and my love for you and everyone else. If I see the Bible says something and someone who claims to worship the God of the Bible saying something else I feel compelled to share the scripture with them to try and reason with them.

If the person reasons with God's word that is fine. If they choose not to, that too is fine. I respect you and your beliefs as that of all Catholics.

I use scripture with people in Christendom because they believe their beliefs are founded on the Bible. When you read what it really says it can be an eye-opener. Not what I say, or anyone else. But what the Bible says.

If he takes a sledge hammer to his basement and destroys their idols and continues to root out corruption in his own house starting with the most obvious of molesters and starts slowly separating the flock from false worship then he will realize that he has a worldwide army of good on his side. If he does not keep taking action against evil then he will have proven to be just another lost soul.

I made a promise to myself to check out his fruit before writing him off as another antichrist.

reply to post by SubAce


Context and perception

Originally posted by SubAce
It is not my intention to hurt with the truth, ....

Dude ... you aren't 'hurting with the truth' ... because you aren't posting 'truth'. You are posting your own interpretation of scripture. That's fine and all, but claiming that the Jehovahs Witness' are the only ones who are 'geting it right' ... well .... that's just not the truth.

I'm not going to get into a scripture spitting contest with you.
I easily could. But this isn't the forum for it.

To quote you .... sorry, it is not my intention to hurt with the truth of that statement.
But .. the truth is the truth ... ya' know??

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by SubAce

 

Context and perception

Very true.