Can you Deny Reincarnation exists?

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posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 07:29 PM
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A moment of your time if you will my friends...

I am speaking to those who believe in the contents of the bible in some way... regardless of which label you claim for yourself

IF you have no beliefs in said book this discussion does not involve you... so please refrain from posting here...

First off I will remove the usual argument against reincarnation...

Hebrews 9:27 is NOT in any way related to reincarnation... That chapter has NOTHING to do with reincarnation what so ever... It is not the subject being discussed...

The subject matter of that CHAPTER is whether or not Jesus had to die more then once to accomplish what he came to do....

thus it CAN NOT be used as an argument against reincarnation...

Now on to my question....

Can YOU deny the possibility that reincarnation exists.... while still agreeing with this passage which is written in two of the three synoptic gospels... which are the closest scripture we have to Jesus

1.Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Matthew 19:25-27
2.Mark 10:27
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

For IF you deny reincarnation... you also deny the power of God...

In fact you are saying "with God all things are NOT possible"

Dare ye set limits on God?

What say you?

edit on 16-3-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


You say that reincarnation is possible because literally all things are possible by God. I challenge your commitment to that stance.

Can God create a mountain so large that he himself cannot move it?



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Your post is an interesting play on words, but by stating that to deny the existence of reincarnation is to deny that with God all things are possible is incorrect.

Just because God COULD allow reincarnation to occur, does not mean that he does. Meaning that yes, with God, reincarnation is indeed possible, since He can do anything, yet it does not occur because he does not allow it to. Therefore, from the Christian perspective, yes, I can deny that reincarnation exists.

And as scriptural evidence denying reincarnation, here it is: Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

This was while Jesus was on the cross with the two criminals and after one had heaped insults on him and the other had defended him. All three were about to die. If they were going to be reincarnated, Jesus would never have made the statement that he did regarding entering paradise.



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by Templeton
reply to post by Akragon
 


You say that reincarnation is possible because literally all things are possible by God. I challenge your commitment to that stance.

Can God create a mountain so large that he himself cannot move it?




hahaha!!

Love me a good paradox...


I would say yes... so as to not set a limit on God's power...

IF he created a mountain so big that HE himself could not move it... it is his will that prevents him from moving said immoveable object...




posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by ProfessorChaos
reply to post by Akragon
 


Your post is an interesting play on words, but by stating that to deny the existence of reincarnation is to deny that with God all things are possible is incorrect.

Just because God COULD allow reincarnation to occur, does not mean that he does. Meaning that yes, with God, reincarnation is indeed possible, since He can do anything, yet it does not occur because he does not allow it to. Therefore, from the Christian perspective, yes, I can deny that reincarnation exists.

And as scriptural evidence denying reincarnation, here it is: Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

This was while Jesus was on the cross with the two criminals and after one had heaped insults on him and the other had defended him. All three were about to die. If they were going to be reincarnated, Jesus would never have made the statement that he did regarding entering paradise.


That is flawed logic my friend... but a star for your reply...

Truly he said the so called "penitent thief" would join him in Paradise that day... though that is not saying this thief will not return to the physical world...


John 10:9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

edit on 16-3-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



John 10:9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.


When a person goes in on one side of a door, does he not come out on the other side of it?



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by ProfessorChaos
reply to post by Akragon
 



John 10:9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.


When a person goes in on one side of a door, does he not come out on the other side of it?


Only if nothing is on the other side of that door...




posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


"Pasture" in that verse refers to being kept safe, not starting a new life.



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by ProfessorChaos
reply to post by Akragon
 


"Pasture" in that verse refers to being kept safe, not starting a new life.


Pasture is symbolic of peace of mind...

One can not go in and out at the same time... you either go in a door... or go out of a door...

Both depend on the result of the action...

When you walk into your house... Do you ever say Im going out?




posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:17 PM
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And please don't take my responses as being overly curt. (I'm typing with a 3 month old in my lap).

There are references in the Bible of the Apostles stating that some believe that Jesus was one of the prophets returned, so, the idea of reincarnation was certainly adhered to by some in that culture, I simply deny it based on the words of Christ and my understanding of them.



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Ah yes, but to continue that thought, if you exit one area, you are entering another. Are you not?



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:21 PM
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Also, If thought about in a more open fashion, even dying in this world and resurrecting in a new body in Heaven is also a form of reincarnation in a sense.



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by ProfessorChaos
And please don't take my responses as being overly curt. (I'm typing with a 3 month old in my lap).

There are references in the Bible of the Apostles stating that some believe that Jesus was one of the prophets returned, so, the idea of reincarnation was certainly adhered to by some in that culture, I simply deny it based on the words of Christ and my understanding of them.


Not at all my friend... Congradulations by the way... that is quite the blessing you have there


Lets try something else...

Do you believe You are headed to "heaven" one day... and that your loved that have passed on are there?

Of course they are...

BUT...

IF they are there waiting... and you are headed to the same place... YOU have already been there before...

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.




posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by ProfessorChaos
reply to post by Akragon
 


Ah yes, but to continue that thought, if you exit one area, you are entering another. Are you not?


Yes... but when you enter the action is to go in...

Not out... which would be exiting





posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:26 PM
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I could deny that there is reincarnation, but i believe i would be wrong.

Here is what i believe to be a prime example of reincarnation.


As to biblical references...



50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


This is in response to your scriptural post.(didn't want to quote it all).

When Jesus had spoken these words, the dead did not go to Heaven at the time of death, they went to Sheol. His death and resurrection was what brought those that were worthy to Heaven. (This is my understanding at least.).

The above also answers the question of "What happened to all of the people that didn't follow Christ before he came to earth to begin his ministry?". They were saved at the time of his death.

So, it is correct that no man had seen heaven at the time that Christ spoke those words, barring perhaps Elijah and and possibly, Enoch.



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:34 PM
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ok - quick and dirty notes!

I am reincarnated- I was born with not only memories of previous lives, but I had a vision of myself dead when I was 3 years old- well before I was exposed to any form of media- the syncronicities have not stopped since-- every day I live is another step in the same direction I have been travelling for eons- robes and bodies discarded alike.

all of you are. understand the laws of thermodynamics- energy must be contained within a field- and cannot be destroyed- only the field (your body) may be dispersed. this is a hologram- there is no death in a "video game"- you are 99,9% empty space/"Energy"

- if the object itself is an illusion to begin with, the destruction of said object must also be an illusion.



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by ProfessorChaos
reply to post by Akragon
 


Ah yes, but to continue that thought, if you exit one area, you are entering another. Are you not?


Yes... but when you enter the action is to go in...

Not out... which would be exiting




I would say that you are performing two actions at the same time when going through a door, exiting and entering.



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by ProfessorChaos
 



This is in response to your scriptural post.(didn't want to quote it all).

When Jesus had spoken these words, the dead did not go to Heaven at the time of death, they went to Sheol. His death and resurrection was what brought those that were worthy to Heaven. (This is my understanding at least.).

The above also answers the question of "What happened to all of the people that didn't follow Christ before he came to earth to begin his ministry?". They were saved at the time of his death.

So, it is correct that no man had seen heaven at the time that Christ spoke those words, barring perhaps Elijah and and possibly, Enoch.




I have to disagree with this theory... That would mean heaven was an extremely desolate place before Jesus came... This is saying that in all of human history before Jesus... AND of course any life that exists on any other planet in all of creation no one made it to heaven... I can't except that.

That means No child which was ever born before Jesus went to heaven, even though Jesus said...

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.


I would say that you are performing two actions at the same time when going through a door, exiting and entering.


IF you jump IN a pool... are you also exiting said splishy splashy place?


edit on 16-3-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


I wouldn't imagine any place that God and his legions of angels inhabited as desolate simply for the lack of human souls. Not to mention that Heaven would also house the souls of those yet to enter the world, so desolate wouldn't be the term I would choose.





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