What Allah says to Christians

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

Its a covenant, do you think jews only rejected Muhammad pbuh, go a bit back and the same happened with Jesus pbuh and even before him. What you call the new covenant, isn't it a more ridiculous bribe?!!

What? A covenant that accepts money in return for erasing sins? The Bible doesn't work like that.

yes Bible says the same.
Zakah means charity and interestingly not to 'church' rather to the poor, needy and orphans and Allah promises a reward in return from Allah.
not blessings and forgiveness from a priest!

reply to post by logical7

yes Bible says the same. Zakah means charity and interestingly not to 'church' rather to the poor, needy and orphans and Allah promises a reward in return from Allah. not blessings and forgiveness from a priest!

There's a difference between charity and accepting money to erase sins and that's clearly what that verse said.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

yes Bible says the same. Zakah means charity and interestingly not to 'church' rather to the poor, needy and orphans and Allah promises a reward in return from Allah. not blessings and forgiveness from a priest!

There's a difference between charity and accepting money to erase sins and that's clearly what that verse said.

so if i help the poor, feed a hungry homeless guy or give him money then God can't forgive some of my sins because of this act??
Or you think God is asking for money to be sent to Heaven? How you send it? Burnt offering!!!
Come on Dee, why are you clinging to a moot point?

reply to post by logical7


No, God does not forgive sins based on money or works. It's only through repentance. That's what the Bible has always taught. There is no way to "earn" your way to salvation and free yourself from sin.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

No, God does not forgive sins based on money or works. It's only through repentance. That's what the Bible has always taught. There is no way to "earn" your way to salvation and free yourself from sin.

ok now i got your point.
God is not asking to throw money at sins.
Interestingly its very hard for the ones who cant repent to also give charity.
You are trying to judge Qur'an from a single verse.
Here are other verses that you want.

Surah/Chapter 002 - Al-Baqarah. Verse 160. Except those who repent and do righteous deeds, and openly declare (the truth which they concealed). These, I will accept their REPENTANCE. And I am the One Who accepts REPENTANCE, the Most Merciful

"Except those who repent, have
faith and good deeds, those Allah
will change their sins for good
deeds. Certainly Allah is most
forgiving and merciful." (Qur'an 25:70)

Surah/Chapter 004 - An-Nisâ. Verse 18. And of no effect is the REPENTANCE of those who continue to do evil deeds until death faces one of them and he says: "Now I repent;" nor of those who die while they are disbelievers. For them We have prepared a painful torment.

I for one here proclaim that I have taken up Islamic faith, since I've been under constant pressure on ATS to see the light. The light of just and true religion.

Yes I have seen the light...haleluj...ugh...praise Allah. Praise oh the all mighty one.

I will now depart for my corner and pray for the rest of my life...kneeling on corn grains, howling on the moon, wearing a white table cloth all over my body to accentuate my innocent nature. I will now proceed to inform my girlfriend of the newly found faith. I will take up a couple more women to my side to have my way with them, 'cos thus spoketh the prophet.

Oh yee that disbelieveth...thou shalt burn in eternal damnation you fools. Good is coming. He will behead all those that don't believeth in him. All praise him the Merciful one.

reply to post by logical7


Allah told me to continue believing on His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ,

Praise Allah for His Holy Bible!

Nothing in the Koran specifically states that the faithful are allotted 72 virgins apiece. For this elaboration we turn to the hadith, traditional sayings traced with varying degrees of credibility to Muhammad. Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."

oh goodie...all I need to do now is become a martyr. Good times here I come....those "young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age" don't know hat's coming to them.


So, 80,000 servants and 72 maidens...this really is the religion of plenty. Now I know I made the right choice.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


I've got a little something for you also... Hope you can work it out for yourself

1 day like a year
1 day like a month
1 day like a week
the rest of the days like our days...

1 heavenly year = 1000 years

1917 is the hint but its not a starting point. Maybe you can tell this joke to your friends because they are a part of it... Good luck. Oh your from Croatia? Maybe they aren't.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Welcome to the faith brother, however let me tell you, Heaven is still far, sorry to be blunt but not all who call themselves muslims will get Heaven, not even martyrs
read this,
the highest 40 hadiths

Hadith Qudsi 6: On the authority of Abu Hurayrah
(may Allah be pleased with him),
who said: I heard the Messenger of
Allah (peace be upon him) say: The first of people against
whom judgment will be
pronounced on the Day of
Resurrection will be a man
who died a martyr. He will be
brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and
he will recognize them. [ The
Almighty] will say: And what
did you do about them? He
will say: I fought for you until
I died a martyr. He will say: You have lied - you did but
fight that it might be said [of
you]: He is courageous. And
so it was said. Then he will be
ordered to be dragged along
on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire. [Another] will be a
man who has studied
[religious] knowledge and
has taught it and who used to
recite the Quran. He will be
brought and Allah will make known to his His favours and
he will recognize them. [The
Almighty] will say: And what
did you do about them? He
will say: I studied [religious]
knowledge and I taught it and I recited the Quran for
Your sake. He will say: You
have lied - you did but study
[religious] knowledge that it
might be said [of you]: He is
learned. And you recited the Quran that it might be said [of
you]: He is a reciter. And so it
was said. Then he will be
ordered to be dragged along
on his face until he is cast into
Hell-fire. [Another] will be a man whom Allah had made
rich and to whom He had
given all kinds of wealth. He
will be brought and Allah will
make known to his His
favours and he will recognize them. [The Almighty] will say:
And what did you do about
them? He will say: I left no
path [untrodden] in which
You like money to be spent
without spending in it for Your sake. He will say: You
have lied - you did but do so
that it might be said [of you]:
He is open-handed. And so it
was said. Then he will be
ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into
Hell-fire. It was related by Muslim (also
by at-Tirmidhi and an-Nasa'i).

www.iium.edu.my/deed/hadith/other/hadithqudsi.html

reply to post by logical7


Does your religion really promise sex (72 virgins) to the faithful?

Or only to martyrs?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by logical7

 

Does your religion really promise sex (72 virgins) to the faithful?

Or only to martyrs?

Its a weak hadith, Qur'an promises companions to the faithful but their own wife if both manage to reach Heaven ofcourse.
The 72 virgins idea is only famous among two groups, anti-islamists and extremists, they both have more in common and yet hate each other the most.

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by logical7

 

Does your religion really promise sex (72 virgins) to the faithful?

Or only to martyrs?

Its a weak hadith, Qur'an promises companions to the faithful but their own wife if both manage to reach Heaven ofcourse.
The 72 virgins idea is only famous among two groups, anti-islamists and extremists, they both have more in common and yet hate each other the most.

Im sorry I don't know what a hadith is...

So this isn't a belief held by "true" islamists?

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by logical7

 

Does your religion really promise sex (72 virgins) to the faithful?

Or only to martyrs?

Its a weak hadith, Qur'an promises companions to the faithful but their own wife if both manage to reach Heaven ofcourse.
The 72 virgins idea is only famous among two groups, anti-islamists and extremists, they both have more in common and yet hate each other the most.

Im sorry I don't know what a hadith is...

So this isn't a belief held by "true" islamists?

A hadith is a narration about what the prophet said or did.
Its the same as the gospels in the Bible.
Each hadith has a chain of narrators and each narrator should be a known good character person.
Its like X told me that Y told him that the prophet said this. Then Y and X should be known to be truthful.
A weak hadith means that chain is not strong.

Muslims have a wide variety of beliefs in these unimportant subjects.
A true martyr doesn't die/kill for the virgins.
He/she fights for God, for truth & justice and if killed then he/she becomes a martyr.
It would be like if someone tried to prevent a rape/murder etc and is killed, he/she is a martyr.

reply to post by logical7


I know what a martyr is...

I mearly had to question the idea of receiving sex for sacrificing your life...

Quite the illogical premise, when sex is a carnal thing...

It seems to me this belief is simply praying on the lusts of a "sexually deprived" people...

Just my opinion of course

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by logical7

 

I know what a martyr is...

I mearly had to question the idea of receiving sex for sacrificing your life...

Quite the illogical premise, when sex is a carnal thing...

It seems to me this belief is simply praying on the lusts of a "sexually deprived" people...

Just my opinion of course

it could also be seen as a nice way of making people be not afraid of death to stand up for the truth just because they want to continue to indulge in carnal desires and not die.

Islam has a different idea of heaven, if i leave my wife and go die for a good cause its only fair that i get my wife and everything i gave up/missed, back in heaven.

As unfortunate as it is, an open discussion between Muslims and Christians (or any other religious branch) will become turbulent despite good intentions from both parties.

Personally, since I sense that different branches of religion usually end up barking over the rottening apple instead of appreciating the tree from which it fell, I choose to put prophets, messiahs and sons of "God" aside, while also doing my best not to call the almighty and all-knowing creator by name, but simply call him/her/it the Creator and focus on the original teachings from the source itself and not people who appeared later, no matter their supposed divinity or purpose in the history of Mankind, before I have thoroughly researched all or most original teachings.

In my humble oppinion, it is no longer about who or which group is the supposed chosen ones, since different people make different claims and nobody can be 100% certain what is the truth, therefore the important thing, in the end, to put our differences aside, is to praise and have faith in the Creator only, and not bark over our differences but keep such things to ourselves and embrace each other knowing that we all praise the Creator, no matter in which form, shape or name he/she/it chose to present him/her/itself.

It is as true as the air we breathe, that the Creator is all-knowing, despite what we call him/her/it and thus understands our good intentions and acknowledges our strong faith in him/her/it no matter in which way we practice our faith and belief.

The Creator, as far as I know, created only one Humanity and we are all human, thus are we all the Creators' children and chosen ones if we only have faith in him/her/it and I cannot and will not accept that the Creator of all things would discriminate his own creation and children, of which, in every religious text that can be read, it is stated that he/she/it loves dearly and unconditionally, originally.

Originally posted by Akragon
Quite the illogical premise, when sex is a carnal thing...
It seems to me this belief is simply praying on the lusts of a "sexually deprived" people...

Yep. And once again, the Qu'ran contradicts the words of Jesus in the Bible ...

Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven

There is no marriage after death. There is no sex. There is nothing carnal.
So any talk in the Qu'ran about taking wives or having sex companions in the afterlife ...
TOTALY contradicts Jesus words as recorded by Matthew in scripture.

Not to mention, the carnal in the afterlife makes no sense.
No human bodies. It's etherial. There is nothing carnal.
Any talk by men about 72 virgins sexually servicing them for all eternity ...
that's just a sick sexual obsession and a severe lack of understanding about
the nature of the after life.

reply to post by FlyersFan

No human bodies. It's etherial.

Kinda excludes the process of burning in HELL as well eh?

logical7 said:

A hadith is a narration about what the prophet said or did.
Its the same as the gospels in the Bible.
Each hadith has a chain of narrators and each narrator should be a known good character person.
Its like X told me that Y told him that the prophet said this. Then Y and X should be known to be truthful.
A weak hadith means that chain is not strong.

If that is the case, then, in my opinion, the gospels are the same as the hadiths.

And largely weak, because there's not even proof that the "writers" wrote them. On the contrary, there is a lot of evidence pointing to forgery, anonymous writings later attributed to "Apostles", and besides, the stories don't even match up.

Thomas Paine pointed out at length how the style used by the writers belies their authenticity, 200+ years ago.