What Allah says to Christians

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Then explain why archaeologists around the globe have found enormous giant skeletons..
.

Easy ... another genetically compatible creature mated with ancient humans OR interjected their own DNA into humans for an experiment. Just because those skeletons are there (and they are) doesn't mean that they came from other-dimensional etherial angels that are non-compatible genetically with the human species.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

If angels are all created beings .. created by God ... and were never intended to have sex to make baby angels .. then they wouldn't even have the sex-organs to make babies.

Jesus said the angels don't get married. Marriage is for procreation and sex is within marriage. Since God made angels not to ever get married, He wouldn't have even given them useless sex organs, would He? That wouldn't make sense.

reply to post by FlyersFan

My thought .. the desert people's who came up with 'Djinns' were really talking about demons. And demons can't procreate.

if you say demons/devils can't procreate and if you believe these are fallen angels then how many fell so as to be enough to tempt every human?(7 billion and growing..)

Jesus pbuh was tempted by the chief devil. Do you think the same tempts each? For that he would have to be omnipresent like God!
I hope you believe that a devil tempts each one of us as you have a very customized belief and its impossible to assume you as a standard christian

reply to post by logical7

I'm sure there are more demons than we can count.
I'm sure there are more than 'one for each of us'.
We all have different weaknesses.
And different demons have different 'skills' in order to tempt us.

But demons are pure spirit and therefore wouldn't have been made with sex organs for procreation. God wants sex to stay within marriage. He made the angels (including the fallen angels) to live without marriage. Therefore .. he wouldn't have made them with any sex organs. It would have been silly to do so.

Demons are fallen angels. I think your 'Jinn' are probably demons.
But of course we won't know for sure until we are dead and then
all will be revealed.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Then explain why archaeologists around the globe have found enormous giant skeletons..
.

Easy ... another genetically compatible creature mated with ancient humans OR interjected their own DNA into humans for an experiment. Just because those skeletons are there (and they are) doesn't mean that they came from other-dimensional etherial angels that are non-compatible genetically with the human species.

I trust God's word, which the archaeological record also supports, over your prejudicial arbitrary conjectures.

The Torah was dictated to Moses on Mt. Sinai over a 30 day period by God, word for word, letter by letter really.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I trust God's word, which the archaeological record also supports, over your prejudicial arbitrary conjectures.

1 - The Old Testament isn't all 'God's Word'. It was written by men and filtered through men so it has errors.
2 - The peasants of the day thought the most natural things were 'God'. We see it all through the bible. We see it in the native american religions. We see it in the Hindu religion. We see it in the Mayan religion. Obviously the peasants of that period thought that organic space travelers were 'angels'. Either that or it was just a myth that was passed down. There is no evidence that says otherwise.
3 - Archeological records do NOT support that none-DNA compatible etherial creatures (angels) procreated with man. Not at all.
4 - 'Giants' that have been found are just that .. 'giants'. There is no evidence that any pure spirit being procreated with organic humans to make them.
5 - I am not posting prejudicial arbitrary conjectures. But you sure are. You have no evidence that supports that angels had sex with humans and made hybrids. None. Only your 'faith' in one line in an ancient book that says it happened. Your faith is prejudicial and creates 'arbitrary conjectures'.
6 - Basic theology ... God wants sex to stay within marriage. Jesus said the angels do not get married. Therefore, the angels do not have sex. If God created the angels not to ever have sex and procreate, then He wouldn't have given them sex organs. To do so would have been silly ... having pure spirits flying around with sex organs that were compatible with humans and all the while God had no intention of allowing angels to procreate with themselves or with anyone else. COMMON SENSE.
7 - Basic science ... two different species are totally incompatible in regards to DNA and procreation. An etherial other-dimensioinal pure spirit created by God CAN NOT make babies with humans. it's impossible. It simply doesn't work that way.

The Torah was dictated to Moses on Mt. Sinai over a 30 day period by God, word for word, letter by letter really.

If believing that makes you happy then .. knock yourself out ... believe it and be happy.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Jesus also said the Torah was the word of God.

So was He lying or a moron?

reply to post by logical7

(5:15) People of the Book! Now Our Messenger has come to you: he makes clear to you a good many things of the Book which you were wont to conceal, and also passes over many things. There has now come to you a light from Allah, and a clear Book.

Ah a new book...so for people of the book ( gather this mean the jews/christians ) there now comes to you another clear book Version II from an improved jehovah/allah...

(5:18) The Jews and the Christians say: 'We are Allah's children and His beloved ones.' Ask them: 'Why, then, does He chastise you for your sins?' You are the same as other men He has created. He forgives whom He wills and chastises whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them.

He also has a special place for the followers of Muhammed


(70. Enter Paradise, you and your wives, in happiness.) (71. Trays of gold and cups will be passed round them; (there will be) therein all that their souls desire, and all that eyes could delight in and you will abide therein forever.) (72. This is the Paradise, which you have been made to inherit because of your deeds that you used to do.) (73. Therein for you will be fruits in plenty, of which you will eat (as you desire).)

"Ask them: 'Why, then, does He chastise you for your sins?' "
So for the jews who are waiting for the second temple or for the christians who postone gratification in this life for an uncertain future in the hereafter where there is no marriage or fun in heaven...You too can renounce jehovah and come join Islam...the payoff sounds better.

you too can have gold, carnal relations *within marriage or with virgins (Islam), and nice meals in heaven> Wow what happens to degeranation aging free radicals or poo poo in heaven? Which angels are alloted to plumbing/maintenance
Why try to sell a heaven with comparisons of earthly treasures, could not the concepts stand on thier own merits. Shrewd people these Religionists.

See here is the dilemna..to make a new "conquering religion" (and Judaism and ,militant christianity certainly have their share of stories) you have to have a reward/punishment system, carrot and stick approach.
See most people are too lazy to have philosophical discussions or they are kept deliberaty busy worrying about the daily toll of surviving and dont have the luxury of the thinkers (lets face it most schools of philosophy were formulating ideas as to the fate of the world whilst enjoying the privelage of not having to work as they had slaves)
A simple dictum...follow the money...who benefits...from a particular stance... why are secular or spritual structures still in a top down pyramid shape. The many controlled by the few. Do those at the top cast their gold or let go of power easily, do they share their gold with the needy. Do they only wash the feet of sinners once a year on television and we all go ooh ahhh...they are so humble. Nah they drive around in bullit proof pope mobiles....having no faith in divine intervention...or the power of miracles.



Papal bull issued 15 June 1520, condemning The Ninety-Five Theses of Martin Luther
"Some of these errors we have decided to include in the present document; their substance is as follows:
It is a heretical opinion, but a common one, that the sacraments of the New Law give pardoning grace to those who do not set up an obstacle.
To deny that in a child after baptism sin remains is to treat with contempt both Paul and Christ.
The inflammable sources of sin, even if there be no actual sin, delay a soul departing from the body from entrance into heaven".
Ah yes original sin...EVEN if there is no sin delay a soul departing...entrance into heaven...

What a beautiful piece of logic through baptism confession and grace you will control them as they need to keep coming back every week to a building (built by your blood sweat and tears or through the corpses of the vanquished) to bow before a man to keep feeding you forgiveness and the "mystery of " washing of sin through cannibalism and vampirism (lords supper)

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Jesus also said the Torah was the word of God.

So was He lying or a moron?

where did he say that?

Clearly he didn't or he would be a liar...

reply to post by TheConstruKctionofLight

Ah a new book...so for people of the book ( gather this mean the jews/ christians ) there now comes to you another clear book Version II from an improved jehovah/allah...

yes new by definition but not much by the message.
And you missed this

(5:15) People of the Book! Now Our
Messenger has come to you: he makes
clear to you a good many things of the
Book which you were wont to
conceal, and also passes over many
things. There has now come to you a light from Allah, and a clear Book.

A simple dictum...follow the
money...who benefits...from a particular stance... why are secular or
spritual structures still in a top down
pyramid shape.

if you think islam is a pyramidal spiritual structure then you are just 'assuming' islam as chistianity v 2.0

In Islam everyone is directly in connection with Allah regarding spirituality.

There is a structure to manage the worldly affairs but even then no one in authority has power to do things as he/she wishes, they are answerable to Allah ofcourse and to people too, arab spring happened due to Islamic principles. Islamic state is demand of the muslims and they have the power to again remove any ruler who goes against the islamic values.

yes new by definition but not much by the message. And you missed this
(5:15) People of the Book! Now Our Messenger has come to you: he makes clear to you a good many things of the Book which you were wont to conceal, and also passes over many things. There has now come to you a light from Allah, and a clear Book

reply to post by logical7


But Islam is descended from the tribe of Ishmael, and claim a heritage to the God of the Old Testament, so your argument is?
1) the OT was not written by the same "god"
2) throw out the Old Testament even though Islam venerates the Old Prophets and Patriarchs


From www.answering-islam.org...

"Freedom of religion" was granted by the Muslim conquerors. Conversions from Christianity and Judaism to Islam were allowed and encouraged. Conversion from Islam to Christianity, however, were subject to the death penalty. This is to this day the practice in some Islamic countries.

I wonder why this is...how dare a Musilm convert...to a religion which predates Islam

arab spring happened due to Islamic principles.

Yeah really" You refuse to see the guiding hand of CIA involvement....
one example and there are many more docs available.

See eg stuartbramhall.aegauthorblogs.com...




Or how about going back further in time to Ayatollah Khomeini overthrow of the CIA back Shah of Iran. What did Khomeini do in power he kept the same Savak (www.hirhome.com...)

From www.hirhome.com...

SAVAK had been the Iranian Shah (King) Mohammed Reza Pahlavi's feared security service, which routinely tortured and assassinated dissidents, and spied on everybody. It had been created by the CIA after the CIA installed the shah in power in a 1953 coup d'état.[1] As a dissident leader prior to the Iranian Revolution of 1979, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini had been denouncing SAVAK. So why so much noise now about other ministries being full of Shah agents and nothing in particular about SAVAK?

Earlier the same month, the Washington Post had published an interesting article with the title: “Khomeini Is Reported to Have a SAVAK of His Own.”[1a] And what was Khomeini’s own SAVAK like? It was none other than SAVAK itself. Here is what the Washington Post writes (emphases are mine):

“Though it came to power denouncing the shah’s dreaded SAVAK secret service, the government of Iran’s Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini has created a new internal security and intelligence operation, apparently with a similar organizational structure and some of the same faces as its predecessor.

The new organization is called SAVAMA. It is run, according to U.S. sources and Iranian exile sources here and in Paris, by Gen. Hossein Fardoust, who was deputy chief of SAVAK under the former shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi and a friend from boyhood of the deposed monarch.

But go on keep thinking that popular uprisings and the overthrow of regimes is singlehandedly created by the masses without military and economic support from outsiders. I mean it is as you say due to "Islamic principles"

Do you really think the Empire that perfected the art of military dictatorships in South America in the 50s somehow forgot the experience and lessons and left the middle east to their own self rule. Egypt had a secular Govt Turkey likewise, do you see perhaps how radical fundamentalism recent callis for an islamic state in those two countries may actually benefit Empires need for an enemy?

Zbigniew Brzezinski, from The Grand Chessboard calls for:

"The task facing the United States, he argues, is to manage the conflicts and relationships in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East so that no rival superpower arises to threaten our interests or our well-being."



People may be answerable in the afterlife to Allah but it seems that Allahs Abrahams and Christs children are the ones suffering on earth right now and the role of Religion has been infiltrated and subverted to be used in inciting foment to splinter humanity for furthering economic looting of resources and controlling supply of key commodities.
To think there has ever been true Theocratic rule on this planet without the hidden hand of economics/hoarding of resources is to live in a sad to say delusion or fantasy
BTW I have no wish to argue apologetics

reply to post by TheConstruKctionofLight


i can't help but agree with your points.
I however can be at peace.

“They plan and Allah also plans. And
Allah is the best of planners.” (Surah
Imraan, verse 54)

CIA/USA could not remove taliban after almost 12years of fight.
I doubt they have the ability to control similar situations elsewhere.
They may have played a part in it for their selfish interest but it has or soon will get out of their control and lead to their own downfall. "Tyrants always give birth to their vanquishers"

reply to post by logical7

CIA/USA could not remove taliban after almost 12years of fight.

Excuse me logical7 but I have always usually found your comments well researched, however the above statement shows me that you still miss the big picture , The Taliban was a creation of US Policy that serves US interests, what you fail to see is that Islam Christianity Judaism serve the purpose of Empire in keeping tribal/nations/sects in perpetual warfare. Business as usual.



Hehelian Dialectic
"Hegel's dialectic is the tool which manipulates us into a frenzied circular pattern of thought and action. Every time we fight for or defend against an ideology we are playing a necessary role in Marx and Engels' grand design to advance humanity into a dictatorship of the proletariat. The synthetic Hegelian solution to all these conflicts can't be introduced unless we all take a side that will advance the agenda. The Marxist's global agenda is moving along at breakneck speed. The only way to completely stop the privacy invasions, expanding domestic police powers, land grabs, insane wars against inanimate objects (and transient verbs), covert actions, and outright assaults on individual liberty, is to step outside the dialectic. This releases us from the limitations of controlled and guided thought. "

“They plan and Allah also plans. And
Allah is the best of planners.” (Surah
Imraan, verse 54)

So when will we see peace on earth, no disrespect but I am afraid I dont see the hand of a benevolent Abrahamaic god having had much success in the last 6000 years.
But then again there is always the promise of the life hereafter for rest....never mind the suffering...its all gods plan.
I am starting to suspect the gnostics perhaps had it right in asserting that this world is ruled by the deimurge

reply to post by TheConstruKctionofLight

The Taliban was a creation of US Policy that serves US interests, what you fail to see is that Islam Christianity Judaism serve the purpose of Empire in keeping tribal/ nations/sects in perpetual warfare. Business as usual.

i know that, talibanwas a creation of US policy.
How much control they have over it now is another matter.
They may still milk it to stay longer by causing explosions etc when time to withdraw troops comes near.
We don't know the ground realities. Karzai rules only Kabul not Afghanistan. Afghan army has recruits who are petty criminals on drugs who were kicked out by villagers and US is trying to train them as soldiers!!
Pakistan is distancing itself from US and milking them good for military help especially transport. btw US troops also have to pay taliban to have safe passage of military transport.

So we can't know if US policy is working in US interests or they are just trying their best to save their faces.

“They plan and Allah also plans. And
Allah is the best of planners.” (Surah
Imraan, verse 54) So when will we see peace on earth,
no disrespect but I am afraid I dont
see the hand of a benevolent
Abrahamaic god having had much
success in the last 6000 years.

"And did not Allah
check one set of people by means of
another, the earth would indeed be
full of mischief [2:251]"

"Say: 'Whosoever is [immersed] in
misguidance, the Most Beneficent will
extend [the rope] for him(give more chances to do wrong), until, when
they see that which they were
promised, either the torment or the
Hour, then they shall know who is worst in position and weakest in
forces.'" The noble Qur'an, Mariam
(19):75

"[002:214] Or do ye think that ye
shall enter the Garden (of bliss)
without such (trials) as came to
those who passed away before
you? they encountered suffering
and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Apostle and
those of faith who were with him
cried: "When (will come) the help of
God?" Ah! Verily, the help of God is
(always) near!"