God's Literal Signature on the BIble

reply to post by stupid girl


Luke 3

38 the son of Enosh,

the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Let's look at this yet another way. In a genealogy , the characters listed come from the next on the list. In this way of looking at this, The Son of God created Adam. Of course, the Lord of Genesis 2, who created Adam, is none other than YHVH. I have many reasons to believe that the Lord of the OT is the Son of God. From this view, the Father of mankind is still the Son of God. This does not fix the first born over all creation for a very important fact. Adam was never in a womb that we know. Cain is literally the firstborn. We additionally have Even as a personification of the Holy Spirit of God. The Trinity would then become Son of God as Father of mankind, the Son created as Adam and Eve as the Spirit that involved into the material world. Is this simply allegory of involution or is this literally the process used to create the very first humans? Is it both? I go with the latter.

reply to post by stupid girl

Your replies have many words, but never really say anything. I understand your orgy of words & scholarly rambling, but I can make no sense of what you are really trying to say.
It all sounds very intellectual and deeply philosophical, so surely you must know what you are talking about? But as I continue to watch you work through your faith, I'm beginning to wonder if you really do.

Hopefully, I sound like a child trying to figure out how babies are born. If I do sound like a child trying to figure it all out, then I am on track. My objective is to NOT have pride. Theology is pride and locking that pride in a fixed mindset is blindness. I do not put God in a box. Instead, I allow him to continually take me out of my box.

When you mentioned that Cain was the firstborn and not Adam, it sent that familiar shudder of doubt down my Spirit. One of the reasons I am intent on figuring this out, even to the degree of examining a piece of dust on the ground left by Christ, is because I am a naturally skeptical person. My faith is continually confirmed and strengthened by my search. Even today, what I doubted one day ago as possible deception has only served to further confirm the path I am traveling. God answers my doubts within 24 hours on a normal day. The answers appear and ALWAYS resolve paradox. I have NO doubt that the Holy Spirit is leading me forward in my search. I can imagine you might be challenged by this from a distance. The reason for this is theology. It's a box we put God in. He's trying to take us out of that Box. Pride blinds, even with theology. Especially with theology! I carry no theology apart from what the text actually states. In most cases, it takes a great deal of work and struggle for that food. I prefer solid food over milk. Milk can be found anywhere.

The locks have timers and our promise was that all things would be revealed.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Only God can put any authority under a life form. Clearly, there is a division between Christ and God. This also supports my contention that saying, "I and the Father are one," does not imply that He is God, but that He IS the Father of mankind as the Son (first born image).

Let's take that thought a step further. We know that there will come a day when there is no longer a division between man and God, but it was only through the body of Christ that we all become one with God. God himself was in that body in order to reconcile us to him so that there would be no more division and we could all live with him in our heavenly bodies. Christ's resurrected body is God's heavenly BODY so that we may all live together. That's why in Revelation 21, we no longer see the name of Jesus mentioned, but it says that the throne belongs to "God AND the Lamb". His name will be one. The name that only he knows. Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.

Colossians 2:9

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Colossians 3:10-11

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Ehesians 1:20-23

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

John 14:7

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

John 14:20

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

John 14:23

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

1 Corinthians 15:28

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

reply to post by Deetermined


If Jesus died to stop us from dividing then why are we more divided than ever today? Especially Christianity?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined

 

If Jesus died to stop us from dividing then why are we more divided than ever today? Especially Christianity?

Would you please quote the scripture that states "Jesus died to stop us from dividing"?

reply to post by mplsfitter539


Read the comment I replied to, I never said Jesus said that.

reply to post by Deetermined


Yes. And also, we have this said by Christ:

John 10:34

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'?

Compare to what he was referencing:

Psalms 82

82 God stands in the congregation of the mighty;
He judges among the gods.
2 How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy;
Free them from the hand of the wicked.
5 They do not know, nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are unstable.

6 I said, “You are gods,

And all of you are children of the Most High.
7 But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth;
For You shall inherit all nations.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say and how it relates to your previous posts.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say and how it relates to your previous posts.

You were speaking of no division between man and God. This is essentially what Christ was implying about our future. Additionally, we are created in God's image and his offspring. This implies something about our future when we become more than simply children of God.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I'm sorry, I still don't understand what you're saying. When I used the word "division", I was talking about God living in heaven and us living on earth. There will come a day when we are all living together.

As for the verses you quoted, these are all about the men who were appointed as judges over the people. More information as to who these judges were and what they were supposed to do is outlined in...

Deuteronomy 1:9-18

8 Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.

9 And I spake unto you at that time, saying, I am not able to bear you myself alone:

10 The Lord your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude.

11 (The Lord God of your fathers make you a thousand times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!)

12 How can I myself alone bear your cumbrance, and your burden, and your strife?

13 Take you wise men, and understanding, and known among your tribes, and I will make them rulers over you.

14 And ye answered me, and said, The thing which thou hast spoken is good for us to do.

15 So I took the chief of your tribes, wise men, and known, and made them heads over you, captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, and captains over fifties, and captains over tens, and officers among your tribes.

16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

17 Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.

18 And I commanded you at that time all the things which ye should do.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

That's right. Adam and Christ are the same. One is the Father and the other is the Redeemer. Both are God.

Neither of these two are the Father in the Trinity.

John 6:46 makes it clear that no man has ever seen the Father...

Jesus is the Creator...

John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Here we learn that the Word was a distinct entity from God but also God himself. It was the Word who was the Creator

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Here we have the two distinct figures of the Godhead introduce by their relationship. The Father and the Son. We also note that no man had ever seen God before (so are they talking about God the Father or God the Son?).

John 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father

So who has no one seen before, the Father or the Son? Here we see that no one has seen the Father before (only Jesus when in Heaven before our creation).

Colossians 1:15,16 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

The one who did the creating of us was not the Father, the one that no one has seen, but the Son.

Hebrew 1:1-3 1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high

God's Son, who is also God, is our Creator.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

If no man has seen the God the Father then who is the LORD God walking in the Garden of Eden and talking to Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:8 through to the end of the chapter?

Who is this "Angel of the Lord" who blesses Hagar in Genesis 16:7-13 and who Hagar recognizes as the Lord Himself in verse 13 (if no one has seen that Father before)?

Who is the "LORD" that appeared to Abraham in Genesis 18:1?

Who was the man Jacob wrestled with, was blessed by and recognized as God in Genesis 32:28 or who appeared to Jacob and he recognized as the LORD in Genesis 28:13?

All of these appearances of God to man was Jesus in His pre-incarnate form.

Adam is not God in any form and is not the Father (as he lived for 900 odd years and heaps of people saw him) so your theory would make the gospel writer of John false. Anyone holding to Christianity would not want to be holding to a position that is contrary to John.

EwR, you are missing the detail as well that Jesus (then known as Michael) was already around in Heaven before our creation. Heaven and He existed before Earth was created.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight


Yes. And also, we have this said by Christ:

John 10:34

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'?

Compare to what he was referencing:

Psalms 82

82 God stands in the congregation of the mighty;
He judges among the gods.
2 How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy;
Free them from the hand of the wicked.
5 They do not know, nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are unstable.

6 I said, “You are gods,

And all of you are children of the Most High.
7 But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth;
For You shall inherit all nations.

This is one of the most commonly used scriptures taken out of context to support Gnostic beliefs.

Its meaning in Psalm 82:6 does not imply that men are gods, but rather refers specifically to the fact that God has appointed certain men as judges to act in a dignified manner as the reflection of God in the responsibilities they have been appointed to discharge.

As God's representatives by divine appointment & commission, these men were failing miserably at reflecting God's image in their dispensation of justice. Their authority to judge was endowed by God Himself, but they were exploiting that authority to judge in pride, deceit and neglect. Although possessing the divinely appointed authority to judge the case of a matter, the Pharasees were exhibiting the same warped sense of error in their judgement of Christ's authority as the men of whom Asaph was referring to in Psalm 82.

The word used throughout the Psalm and translated both as 'God' & appointed 'judges' (rendered simply as 'gods' in many texts) is 'Elohim'.
In this particular regard, should they have truly been reflecting the distinction of Elohim as His earthly Elohim, then they would have recognized Christ's authority as God Himself, instead of wanting to stone Him for implying such.