People have been brainwashed to believe that socialism is evil...

If you believe that it is not immoral to forcibly steal, by threat of force, a person's wealth and possessions, in order to distribute it to a politically favored group, then I really don't know what else there is to say. Because that is socialism in a nutshell.

You can try to argue that it isn't, but it is. The government takes one person's wealth, by threat of force, in order to give it to another person or group that the government chooses. This also includes things like the income tax, which is socialism, and is inherently immoral.

Originally posted by kazanoom
I agree, real socialism has never been put into practice, never. Despots and assholes have used the guise of socialism to push their agenda but no country as ever made an honest go at it. Jesus was a socialist, no doubt. It is just a scaredy cat buzzword for small minded idiot fear mongers and frauds.

Jesus never said anything about taking from others. But he sure wouldn't have a problem if you want to voluntarily give things to those in need.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


You have me totally wrong. I'm looking for the truth, not trying to deny or hide anything. If I was doing that I'd not use a site like this at all, I'd be off doing something else that could shield me from possibly seeing anything truthful that'd wake me up more. I get that you seem to be looking for the truth too.

I'm not pretending I'm perfect and totally right, but I think you're completely wrong on this. Socialism to me and many others is a concept that we think has never been able to work properly because of fascists. You on the other hand think fascism actually IS socialism. There seems to be no way for us to resolve this argument so I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

No hard feelings and no disrespect intended.

reply to post by MotherMayEye

"competition", that is a word Jesus would be very annoyed about. Competition is bad, it is not true we need competition to get what is needed to live a good and rich life. Competition is a word used by think tanks, companies and CEOs to make you work like a slave. The USA are obsessed with Jesus Christ but don't respect any of his rules…

But don't get me wrong, I like americans because they can have very different point of views and can express them freely.

This is a Socialism conditioning thread for the upcoming NWO . Agenda 21 is not Socialism it's going to be a Gentile enslavement . Read the Protocols Of Zion and get past the BS that they are plagiarisms . Anybody can see they apply exactly to today's circumstances .

reply to post by jeanne75018


I could not care less what you say Jesus would be annoyed with. I am an atheist and you thinking on behalf of Jesus amuses me.

reply to post by MotherMayEye


Atheist are informed people but not in the right areas . They seek knowledge in the areas that bolster their prejudices as we all do . But theirs is a sad one .

reply to post by POXUSA


A political system cannot be EVIL, it's the people that govern the country who ruins it for everyone.

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by Cabin

 

To the title: yup, go figure.

You can thank USA's war on Communism for that.
There's also the taint left over from another other Socialist regime that was in power in Germany during WWII.

Socialism, however, aint bad.
Anyone wants to yell about it can pull their children out of PUBLIC School, which is a very very very Socialist program.
They can also sign off to never ever ever dip into SOCIAL Security once they get old.

There's lots of socialist programs alive and well in the USA as well as other first world countries all over that make for excellent systems.

Typically, however, it's under-educated ignorance that brings about blind hatred toward such systems.

Public schools in the US are a magnificent failure. Graduation rates are horrible and most that do graduate haven't mastered basic skills. I'm a univ professor and I have to fix all that nonsense with my freshmen before I can even think about teaching my material.

A good portion can't even spell rudimentary words, let alone form complete sentences. And it's not like a typo: they spell "alpha" "alfa" etc.

To say socialist education in the USA is "excellent" is to ignore the facts. Which, if you're educated in that system, wouldn't surprise me in the least.

The wealthiest nation on earth, which spends more money per student than any other country ranks here with the socialist education system:

15th of 29 in reading literacy
21st of 30 in scientific literacy
25th of 30 in mathematical literacy
24th of 29 in problem solving

Not what I call even remotely successful. Not even in the same zip code as successful. Looks more like complete failure to me.

www.all4ed.org...

Socialism works. A family is a perfect example of a "benign leader,used to be the father, each accordingly, to their need, medical/dental expenses, etc.

Communes also are a workable system. One works on trust, the other on willing, voluntary membership/contribution.

Even towns requires social awareness. If your wealthy and your neighbour and his family is starving, he is more likely to steal your food/possessions just to survive.

Where it starts to break down is when it gets beyond local. beyond voluntary. When it is enforced on others.

Europeans seem to accept this more than North Americans, partially due to the fact that those that no longer wish to remain in the Euro style socialist enviornment have a safety valve, so to speak, they emmigrate, often to the U.S.

Freedom, choice, not "cost" is senior, at least lip-service wise, or in times past. it is more costly in terms of alertness, internal and external erosions occur daily. A "free" society is much harder to achieve and maintain than a socialist one.

We are in the process of losing it as we speak. The culprits are irrelevant. Our lack of alertness, responsiblity, our
liberty-not freedom, two different concepts-has lead to our plight, our fault, not anyone else's.

Keep your socialism, sir. I will keep what little freedom I have left in far higher esteem than "free' medical, "free" food...free enslavement. I pass.

Agenda 21 is a Socialist /Communist backed system .

The Globalist Goons are trying to condition us for their New World Order . Do not fall for it .

Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by Cabin

 

To the title: yup, go figure.

You can thank USA's war on Communism for that.
There's also the taint left over from another other Socialist regime that was in power in Germany during WWII.

Socialism, however, aint bad.
Anyone wants to yell about it can pull their children out of PUBLIC School, which is a very very very Socialist program.
They can also sign off to never ever ever dip into SOCIAL Security once they get old.

There's lots of socialist programs alive and well in the USA as well as other first world countries all over that make for excellent systems.

Typically, however, it's under-educated ignorance that brings about blind hatred toward such systems.

Lol, the public schools are a joke, prison is like college for criminals and the same can be said for the public schools. Liberal left wing teachers pushing their flawed beliefs (like socialism) on young impressionable children? No thanks. Not to mention juvenile deliquents who are the products of bad parenting teaching good kids how to be more like them because it's "cool". Public schools are idiot factories.

As for social security you can stick that where the sun dont shine as well. I will put my money into a private retirement fund and it will grow exponentailly larger and yield way more money than the meager droppings you will receive from social security.

"People have been brainwashed to believe that socialism is evil..."

It is, nuff said, moving on now...

reply to post by nwtrucker


Sorry to interupt. I am not proffesor. Simple engineer in factory in UK. Just wonder what freedom we are talking about? My parents were free working in socialism. I was free to go to school, university, I attended gliding school, sport school for free. Did not needed to buy it. We are talking about bought freedom, which in my plain thinking we are intitled from a birth day. I knew well if you are more clever and capable you would get a better job, learning opportunities were unlimited. No mater what family you were from : poor or welfy. Poor -better. You will receive more respect. Incouragement. Idealy capitalism is not even close, I would say step behinde then socialism. Sadly many people imediately draw the paralel with comunizm. Let we reminde to everyone: there was never comunizm. Never reached. There were theorys but people never lived in comunizm. Capitalism - the world of money. Sadly not a freedom. It is a Matrix. You have money welfy family, you will get away with murder. The system itself born disabled. Money - all that maters. Now the obvious question what I am doing in UK the capital of all citalizm? I run away from young capitalist who took over my country. They sold everything and keep selling. As they are hungry and greedy for money. And yes thanks to my education I can buy a little freedom for my family. Although not sure my children ever will get what I had. It is a sad world. I mean look at Torys Today. They are fighting for they party, goes around compaining, Obama, milions spent on election. So it is OK. So whats wrong if socialist party would be fighting for votes as equal oposition? Freedom is in't it. But as soon as somebody start talking about socializm - labels, labels, and whiches. I am happy for you folks who idealises capitalism as humanity development future and way to involve it is one step ahead from slavery. Unfortunately I am not so optimistic on it.

Government giveth and government taketh away.

Socialism is Big Government no matter how many anarchists on this site say it isn't.

I've noticed people using it as a cut down during debates, which I find pretty hilarious because that term doesn't offend me. I'm probably a socialist, so calling me one doesn't offend me.

In today`s capitalist world. Transitioning to socialism would have to take a more gradual uphill model. The upper class have far more power these days compared to the days of Marx. I wonder what Marx would think of finance capitalism?
It would be odd hearing him talk about the advantages of a globalized economy and `free trade` agreements while the entire world is covered in red after a shocking victory by the World Revolution Movement. It would have been much more of the world had been involved in the `Cultural Revolution` one after the other for a period of about 160 years after victory at Stalingrad.

America, like it or not, was indeed effected by the cultural revolution after WW2. Worker`s revolutions and labor union membership was at it`s peak from during the period of 1944-1969. I say that era due to the constant upraising or social activism happening during that time.

Events like The Battle of Blair Mountain and the Golden Gate Mass Strike were early examples of the new American spirit post WW2. There were also events which were really bad for society. The Shooting of Martin Luther King Jr. and the golden boy John F. Kennedy crushed an early populist upraising lead by social scholars.

I still how those two men died and at this point it is not important anymore. All that is true is they are dead and only lived long to get a revolution started but other people would have to step forward and lead the charge...but the next gang of red leaders were not as pure as the founders. Stalin for all that he did achieve, his policies were a bit harsh at times and did do some harm to the overall population of the USSR. The only second wave of guys I think got it right was Fidel Castro and the Cuba he created with the Marxist social and political guidance.

Ho Chi Mein is also an exception of hardcore socialism with the rather passive Vietnam Red Revolution and victory against the American Army. This guy did not do a lot of harm to his own people but his army was brutal if provoked and did not give up easily. They pretty much outlasted the Americans in the hot dense jungle. His army also invaded Red Cambodia and defeated Pao Pot. Some Red Armies did do some great acts of freeing people from bad leaders.

reply to post by OrdinaryMan


Ordinary man, thanks for your reply. My response is as much to others as you. I don't intend any disrespect for your views on this whatsoever.

You are content with your lot. That's fine by me.

A couple of points I'd like to clarify with you. first, "socialism" is not an economic system. England's economy is a capitalistic system, it's based only on capitalism.

Socialism, at least at national levels, is an enforced wealth redistribution system. it generally only hits the average guy, you and me. The extremly wealthy get a "bye", in both countries from what I can see. Trust funds, endowments, ad nauseum as exempt.

Socialism, in it's current form, cannot even exist without capitalism to fund it. Otherwise, all that's left is "communism" or barter.

Lets take the most common "social right", basic education. Every nation worth it's salt has it. Technically a "socialist program". It's free. It's paid for by those who may or may not use it like it or not. You are forced to go. You are forced to study what "they" think you should. "they' decide the competency level and so on.

My daughter when to, whay we call "private school". You think of as public school. It was non-religious and cost me about 750-1000 per month. That was over and above the taxes I paid that financed the regular school system.

No complaints. my choice.

My grandchildren are home schooled. Again, our choice.

The truth of just this one example is the so-called "free" education isn't free. We largely have little say in the cirriculum, the political and social direction. Read that into little "choice".

Granted, the British education system has largely avoided the pathetic levels of the U.S. education system. Yet, in one sense, the general product of your system may have superior basics, I find it interesting that the end result as far as acceptance of certian "social values" is almost automatic where here there's a lot more "but, wait a minute...what abouts...?" here in the U.S.. Or at least so I'm led to believe.

There will always be social programs. They are needed. The question is degree. Ours is modified heavily by the U.S. constitution, largely in reaction to old world orders-such as yours.

To put it on a base level, it's a bit like, "OK, feds, do what you have to, but keep it to the bare minimum. Stay out of our lives, If we fail, it's on us. You are not our solution, we solve our own problems. Your "solutions" just create more problems, more often then not, worse than the problem your were "solving".

Unfortunatly, we didn't have a large "alternative" to our public school system as you have. It has become a joke that the solution to has been throw even more money at it...we've seen the results of that direction.LOL.

Now were at about a fifty/fifty split on the stay out of our lives crowd and the please help me/them crowd that thinks gov'ts are the solution.

I see them as a neccesary evil, totally self-absorbed unless polls dictate otherwise-and not even the polls moves the "bureaucrat class" whatsoever. After all they know what's best...that's their job...sigh.

Not all socialism is evil, some is even benificial. But without doubt, it is a dish best served to willing participants best.

Not enforced. At least not to the"cowboys" that still say "thanks but no thanks".

We are pissed-off, to say the least. Sometimes that leads to a little too much "evil" and "bad". But there is method to our madness. At the high-water mark, 2% produced 50% of the worlds manufacturing goods and we were the envy of much of the world.

The bottem line is it sure wasn't socialism that produced those numbers or respect.

Hope this makes some sense.

Ever see others that have certain opinions or behaviors and it just IRRITATES you? In fact, they're so insulting and galling and bullish and repugnant that you almost feel like giving punching em? Feeling like punching someone is not the same as punching them. Because in hte next moment you realize you can't punch them, but you still hold a deep hostility with them.

This discussion just made me think of that. Anytime you bring people together on the opposing sides of a passionate or strongly felt issue you invite a firestorm of exasperation.

Ever see others that have certain opinions or behaviors and it just IRRITATES you? In fact, they're so insulting and galling and bullish and repugnant that you feel like punching em? Maybe it'll fix them up. Feeling like punching someone is not the same as punching them. Because in hte next moment you realize you can't punch them, but you still hold a deep hostility with them.

This discussion just made me think of that. Anytime you bring people together on the opposing sides of a passionate or strongly felt issue you invite a firestorm of exasperation.

On good days I'm walking and there's no gravity and I'm like "Hey, we can work through our differences and all will be good. We just got to keep our heads up and keep negotiating." But on most days I'm like "As long as they keep away from me I'm ok with it. They smell real bad to me."

Here's a fictional fight that - par for the course - ends well:

Originally posted by OrdinaryMan
reply to post by nwtrucker

 

Sorry to interupt. I am not proffesor. Simple engineer in factory in UK. Just wonder what freedom we are talking about? My parents were free working in socialism. I was free to go to school, university, I attended gliding school, sport school for free. Did not needed to buy it. We are talking about bought freedom, which in my plain thinking we are intitled from a birth day. I knew well if you are more clever and capable you would get a better job, learning opportunities were unlimited. No mater what family you were from : poor or welfy. Poor -better. You will receive more respect. Incouragement. Idealy capitalism is not even close, I would say step behinde then socialism. Sadly many people imediately draw the paralel with comunizm. Let we reminde to everyone: there was never comunizm. Never reached. There were theorys but people never lived in comunizm. Capitalism - the world of money. Sadly not a freedom. It is a Matrix. You have money welfy family, you will get away with murder. The system itself born disabled. Money - all that maters. Now the obvious question what I am doing in UK the capital of all citalizm? I run away from young capitalist who took over my country. They sold everything and keep selling. As they are hungry and greedy for money. And yes thanks to my education I can buy a little freedom for my family. Although not sure my children ever will get what I had. It is a sad world. I mean look at Torys Today. They are fighting for they party, goes around compaining, Obama, milions spent on election. So it is OK. So whats wrong if socialist party would be fighting for votes as equal oposition? Freedom is in't it. But as soon as somebody start talking about socializm - labels, labels, and whiches. I am happy for you folks who idealises capitalism as humanity development future and way to involve it is one step ahead from slavery. Unfortunately I am not so optimistic on it.

So who paid for all your "entitlements?" Someone had to. That makes them a slave of the state. You say you believe you're "entitled to it from birth" then that means that someone else is obligated to provide it to you. It's not the government, the government has no money except that which it takes from the people. Then there's the people the have to provide you with what you think you're entitled to. a.k.a. slaves.

So if you're sick and there are no doctors around, what then? So much for your entitlement. Then what do you do? You do what Greece is doing and throw a national tantrum? Cry about it?

What if the taxpayers finally wake up to government corruption and realize their tax dollars would be better spent supporting their neighborhoods and taking care of their own instead of letting a pile of professional corrupt politicians do it?

Who's going to pay your tuition then? Your free health care? This is what happens when people cede individual liberty to government.

Eventually you run out of other people's money (see: Greece)