Who Were The People Of Göbekli Tepe

Most here are familiar with the temple of Göbekli Tepe and theories have arisen over the meaning of the site and with good reason,it is extremely old 11,000 BCE at some estimates, seemed to have been buried on purpose as if to hide or preserve something,just what that something is further digging and analysis awaits,but what of the people themselves what do we know about them.

Well Göbekli Tepe is located just north of the Syrian boarder in Turkey but before anyone start thinking they might be related to the Turkish populace of today please keep in mind that the central Asians bearing that name are relatively new comers.

Stay tuned more to come.

They seemed to be linked to a people called the Natufians who developed walled communities in the Levant proper around Jericho.the first descriptions of their remains came from an Old New Yorker Report By Sir Author Evans

Wireless to THE NEW YORK TIMES. New York Times 1857; Aug 4, 1932; ProQuest Historical Newspapers The New York Times (1851 - 2003)

BONES OF CANNIBALS: A PALESTINE RIDDLE Wireless to THE NEW YORK TIMES. New York Times 1857; Aug 4, 1932; ProQuest Historical Newspapers The New York Times (1851 - 2003) pg. 21 ATE BODIES OF ENEMIES Men, Short of Stature, Burned Bones of Dead After Burial, London Session Hears. TEETH OF WOMEN DRAWN Linking relics to Burnt Skeletons from Ur scientist speculate an old cremation custom. Wireless to NEW YORK TIMES London Aug. 3 Seven or eight thousand years ago in what geologist call modern times a race of negroid cannibals lived In Palestine, burned the bones of their dead after burial, and devoured the bodies of their enemies. Skulls and thighbones of this race were unearthed within the last four years, first at Shukbah near Jerusalem and later in caves at Mount Carmel, and because they puzzled the excavators who found them they received the new name “Natufians.” Today the first authoritative account of them was given by Sir Arthur Keith to the congress of Prehistoric and Protohistoric Sciences and showed them to be one of the greatest riddles of archaeology. They were clearly a Negroid people, said Sir Arthur, with wide faces flat- noses and long large heads. They were short of stature 5 feet 3 or 4 inches tall-and their thighs and legs were remarkably strong. While their arms and shoulders were weak. Alone Among prehistoric peoples they had a custom of extracting the two upper central incisor teeth of their women. Jagged holes in the fronts of their skulls indicate that they ate human brains.

Off-course the above turned out to be a bit sensational about Flied tooth Cannibals as will be shown later
And while I dislike loaded terms like Negroid/Caucasoid and all other "oids"and all that it implies, they were trying to find a morphological fit for the population of which certain population south of the Sahara　possessed,but even more importantly was that material culture can be traced back by a people called the Mushabaeans that came from the Nile.

In 8000 B.C. the Natufians -- a hunting-gathering people -- lived in the region around Jericho and the Dead Sea. They were first to cultivate this new mutation -- this modern wheat. They became the first farmers. By then, the climate had been warming for 2000 years. Once the area had been fairly lush. Now it grew arid. Game moved north. The vegetation changed. But the wild grains did well in the drier climate. The Natufians began eating a lot more grain. And here we come to a great riddle. How did modern wheat replace those wild grains? Isolated mutations died without human help. Was some human clever enough to recognize and pick out that lone stalk of fat wheat in a field of grain? We used to think so. But maybe the drama played out in quite a different way. By 8000 B.C. the Natufians needed much more grain. They probably began doing some planting to create it. Once they did, the fat wheat had its chance. It was easier to harvest. The seeds stayed in place when you cut it. Every time the Natufians harvested seed, they got proportionately more of the mutations. They lost more of the wild grain. It took only a generation or so of that before a single mutation took over. The result was an unexpected wedding. In no time at all, modern wheat dominated the fields. And that was both a blessing and a curse. The Natufians unwittingly replaced the old wild wheat with far richer food. But it was a food that could survive only by their continued intervention. No more lilies of the field. From now on we would live better, but we would also be forever bound to this wonderful new food by the new technology of agriculture.
Larry Angel (1972): "one can identify Negroid traits of nose and prognathism appearing in Natufian latest hunters.(McCown, 1939) and in Anatolian and Macedonian first farmers, probably from Nubia via the predecesors of the Badarians and Tasians..."

C.L. Brace (2005): "If the late Pleistocene Natufian sample from Israel is the source from which that Neolithic spread was derived, there was clearly a sub-Saharan African element present of almost equal importance as the Late Prehistoric Eurasian element."

More to come

You're going to tell us they were black, aren't you?

I knew it as soon as I saw who had started the thread. And I'm afraid that's Strike One against the credibility of your claim.

More generally, we know hardly anything about Göbekli Tepe, at which excavation only began in 1994. It is far too early to speculate upon the origins of its builders.

Originally posted by Astyanax
You're going to tell us they were black, aren't you?

I knew it as soon as I saw who had started the thread. And I'm afraid that's Strike One against the credibility of your claim.

More generally, we know hardly anything about Göbekli Tepe, at which excavation only began in 1994. It is far too early to speculate upon the origins of its builders.

Not really but I was going to say that some also were cold adapted and aligned with with people from northern Europe that united to become Anatolian and European first farmers but their material culture had Nile Valley origins, and I was going to post this interview by Chris Eret

A Conversation with Christopher Ehret Christopher

Ehret,
UCLA Interviewed by WHC Co-editor Tom Laichas

WHC: You seem to be suggesting that the Semitic monotheism Jewish, Christian and Islamic monotheism descends from African models. Is that fair? Ehret: Yeah, actually it is. Look at the first commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." It's not like the Muslim creed, which is "There is no God but God." It's doesn't say "there is no god but Yahweh, and Moses is his prophet." It is an admittance that there are other gods. It is an example of henotheism. And the Hebrew tribes are like the Omati clan groups.

The tribes are clans writ larger. Like the Omati clans, they track their ancestry back ten or fifteen generations to a common ancestor. And these common ancestors were twelve brothers. (Actually, there are thirteen. They have to turn two of them, Ephraim and Manasseh, into half tribes, because thirteen wasn't a good number. I always loved that. There are really thirteen tribes, but you have to combine two of them). The Canaanite cities have an alternative Semitic structure: polytheism. There's Astarte and Baal and the various gods that you'll find in South Arabia. So it looks like in the early Semitic world, you have two coexisting religions.

You have polytheism among the ones who are really more urbanized. Then you have henotheistic groups. What I see here is that earlier Middle Eastern polytheism is influencing Semitic religion. After all, the early Semites were just a few Africans arriving to find a lot of other people already in the area. So they're going to have to accommodate. Some groups, maybe ones who live in peripheries, in areas with lower population densities, may be able to impose the henotheistic religion they arrived with. 21 WHC: How does a small group of Semites coming in from Africa transform the language of a region in which they are a minority?
Ehret:
One of the archaeological possibilities is a group called the Mushabaeans. But they were just using these seeds as they were. At the same time, in this northeastern corner of Africa,This group moves in on another group that's Middle Eastern. Out of this, you get the Natufian people. Now, we can see in the archaeology that people were using wild grains the Middle East very early, back into the late glacial age, about 18,000 years ago. But another people the Mushabaeans? are using grindstones along the Nile, grinding the tubers of sedges.
Somewhere along the way, they began to grind grain as well. Now, it's in the Mushabian period that grindstones come into the Middle East. Conceivably, with a fuller utilization of grains, they're making bread. We can reconstruct a word for "flatbread," like Ethiopian injira.

This is before proto-Semitic divided into Ethiopian and ancient Egyptian languages. So, maybe, the grindstone increases how fully you use the land. This is the kind of thing we need to see more evidence for. We need to get people arguing about this. And by the way: we can reconstruct the word for "grindstone" back to the earliest stage of Afrasan. Even the Omati have it. And there are a lot of common words for using grasses and seeds. worldhistoryconnected.press.illinois.edu...

I don't rely on Phenotype alone with mean little to me personally, culture is much more important.I also want folks to realize that they should check their generalizations at the door when studying ancient people and places.
More to　come;

Ofer Bar-Yosef:

Ofer Bar-Yosef has argued that there are signs of influences coming from North Africa to the Levant, citing the microburin technique and “microlithic forms such as arched backed bladelets and La Mouillah points. But recent research has shown that the presence of arched backed bladelets, La Mouillah points, and the use of the microburin technique was already apparent in the Nebekian industry of the Eastern Levant. And Maher et al. state that, "Many technological nuances that have often been highlighted as significant during the Natufian were already present during the Early and Middle EP [Epipalaeolithic] and do not, in most cases, represent a radical departure in knowledge, tradition, or behavior."

C. Loring Brace

Anthropologist C. Loring Brace in a recent study on cranial metric traits however, was also able to identify a "clear link" to North African populations for early Natufians based on his observation of gross anatomical similarity with extant populations found mostly in the Sahara.[ Brace believes that these populations later became assimilated into the broader continuum of Southwest Asian populations. According to Bar-Yosef and Belfer-Cohen, "It seems that certain preadaptive traits, developed already by the Kebaran and Geometric Kebaran populations within the Mediterranean park forest, played an important role in the emergence of the new socioeconomic system known as the Natufian culture

people of Catal Huyuk Anatolia

Keep in mind the statuette of the Great Mother Goddess with the earlier representation of the Natufian period.
We know that they purposely abandoned the site but they did not just fall of the map,for the went on to form the first farming communities in Anatolia which had much so repercussions for earliest Greek civilizations associated with the bull cults.

Originally posted by Spider879

thats the venus of dolni vestonice
The Venus of Dolní Věstonice (Czech: Věstonická Venuše) is a Venus figurine, a ceramic statuette of a nude female figure dated to 29,000–25,000 BCE (Gravettian industry), which was found at a Paleolithic site in the Moravian basin south of Brno. This figurine, together with a few others from nearby locations, is the oldest known ceramic article in the world.

epigravettians did however travel into anatolia at the end of the ice age when their lands flooded in europe.

peace

Since only 10 to 15% of the site is excavated, it's really too early to make an educated conclusion about the origin of the builders.

Considering that they were hunter gatherers and that it would have taken great numbers of people working together to accomplish this...I don't see it as being out of the question that multiple ethnicities could have been involved. One theory as this was a meeting place for tribes as they migrated around the region...who is to say they were all one race?

Southern and Eastern Anatolia and the fertile crescent still have much to reveal I think. People have populated the area for tens of thousands of years...one generation building on the remnants of the last...over and over. It will be remarkable to see what is in store as they go deeper down and further back in time.

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
Since only 10 to 15% of the site is excavated, it's really too early to make an educated conclusion about the origin of the builders.

Considering that they were hunter gatherers and that it would have taken great numbers of people working together to accomplish this...I don't see it as being out of the question that multiple ethnicities could have been involved. One theory as this was a meeting place for tribes as they migrated around the region...who is to say they were all one race?

Southern and Eastern Anatolia and the fertile crescent still have much to reveal I think. People have populated the area for tens of thousands of years...one generation building on the remnants of the last...over and over. It will be remarkable to see what is in store as they go deeper down and further back in time.

Agreed the scholors above pointed out that the grain users along with their language and tool kit moved into the fertile crescent and transformed the economy whose origins lay on Nile and the Sahara,and we do know that the site belonged to the natufians it is only remarkable because of it's early grandure.

But here is what I want people to do ,stop with this concept of "Race" it has no validilty from a Biological stand point, a Nigerian and a New Guinean looked the same but are the most distant genetically, micro evolution is at play here, this goes for certain Black Asians also,but people have a tendency to freak-out when certain a morphology is mentioned with percieved African characteristics, The Khoi San of Southern Africa are not Mongoloid as neither they nor their ancestors are from Mongolia, again local adaptation due to environment,Ethiopians and Somalians are not Caucasiods despite having angular faces with narrow features,again local adaptation.

reply towww.picturesofrecord.com... post by Parta

thats the venus of dolni vestonice The Venus of Dolní Věstonice (Czech: Věstonická Venuše) is a Venus figurine, a ceramic statuette of a nude female figure dated to 29,000–25,000 BCE (Gravettian industry), which was found at a Paleolithic site in the Moravian basin south of Brno. This figurine, together with a few others from nearby locations, is the oldest known ceramic article in the world. epigravettians did however travel into anatolia at the end of the ice age when their lands flooded in europe.

You are indeed correct ,I thought this piece was found at a Natufian site along with this neck lace, the BAD is All Mine.
by François Valla and Ofer Bar Yosef
www.picturesofrecord.com...

reply to post by Astyanax



You and I thought the same thing upon seeing the threads author.

But all that aside....this i the first I have heard a coherent theory to express how the massive genetic mutations needed to turn wild grain into food grain occurred. And it is intriguing. I would bet that the same is how the symbiotic relationship works for all animals. Like the Eucalyptus tree and the koala.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Astyanax

 

You and I thought the same thing upon seeing the threads author.

But all that aside....this i the first I have heard a coherent theory to express how the massive genetic mutations needed to turn wild grain into food grain occurred. And it is intriguing. I would bet that the same is how the symbiotic relationship works for all animals. Like the Eucalyptus tree and the koala.

Here is the nuts and bolts of most of my post so far, migration and diffusion of cultures and technology is common from the earliest times to the present,I can go over numerous post made not by me that deals with migrations of people from one area to another example The Tarim mummies discovered in Xinjiang, China. their presumed phenotype is listed their route traced the area they migrated to is listed and the roles they may have played in the new lands discussed and no one will bat an eye as a matter of fact it will be taken as the norm,but mention Africans or Blacks in a similiar vain and some folks will read something sinister in your post,or I could gloss over it and just say some people came from the south Mediterranean brought new tool kits and languages and help transformed economy of the area,delete any mention of Africa,the Nile the Sahara or what bio anthropologist had to say on the matter,and everyone is happy,some may even go on to make beautiful graphic designs on what they think those people should look like on a magazine cover or text book maybe even make a movie or documentary without the need to pull up their files on African American actors for a casting call.

reply to post by Spider879


Gobekli Tepe in my mind was pre diluvian and goes much further back than 12000 years as does Puma Punka -u.
There for it is impossible to know anything about the people.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Spider879

 

Gobekli Tepe in my mind was pre diluvian and goes much further back than 12000 years as does Puma Punka -u.
There for it is impossible to know anything about the people.

edit on 8-3-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

When did the diluvian took place.

reply to post by Spider879

When did the diluvian took place.

Well that's question for the ages but over 600 cultures give record of a flood happening. But not one gives memory of when. Because mankind obviously had to regroup again. I believe there was so much going on in the world before this one the few people left didn't even attempt to make record of it. The fact that we are a species with amnesia is just more evidence of a flood. All the evidence points to a forgotten world and I believe God himself wanted it that way.The great pyramid at Giza is on of the seven wonders of the world. We can only wonder because we will never know. We will never know because it is part of a different world of which there is no record. Same with Gobekli. All of these things are far older than we can imagine. Or anyone is willing to say because they don't want to validate the Bible. My opinion of course.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Spider879

 

When did the diluvian took place.

Well that's question for the ages but over 600 cultures give record of a flood happening. But not one gives memory of when. Because mankind obviously had to regroup again. I believe there was so much going on in the world before this one the few people left didn't even attempt to make record of it. The fact that we are a species with amnesia is just more evidence of a flood. All the evidence points to a forgotten world and I believe God himself wanted it that way.The great pyramid at Giza is on of the seven wonders of the world. We can only wonder because we will never know. We will never know because it is part of a different world of which there is no record. Same with Gobekli. All of these things are far older than we can imagine. Or anyone is willing to say because they don't want to validate the Bible. My opinion of course.

I am open to the idea of global floods resulting from the melting of Ice during one of our many Ice ages,but we have to respect the findings of main steam scientist also despite their conservatism, after all they are in the field.
If we looked at the end of the last major Ice age which could cause major floods through out the world then it would put the Gobekl complex with in that time frame, how ever there is a problem as the site was not flooded it was buried.

reply to post by Spider879


How was it buried ? Is a question no one can answer. As I'm sure you are the same with hopes that further excavations may reveal something we have never seen before. I would give anything to be there just as laborer..

I honestly don't believe that a hunter gatherer community would've had the time or inclination to build this and create said posted artefacts....
They would've had to spend all day hunting and gathering and fending off predators...
So when would they have found the time to make the tools, plan and then quarry and then build AND then bury this site?
I think we and the scientific community need to look at these structures and say hey this is proof that farming and civilisation is older than we thought!
Sceintists/archeologists just find it hard to say hey I was wrong!

Originally posted by Anonbeleiver77
I honestly don't believe that a hunter gatherer community would've had the time or inclination to build this and create said posted artefacts....
They would've had to spend all day hunting and gathering and fending off predators...
So when would they have found the time to make the tools, plan and then quarry and then build AND then bury this site?
I think we and the scientific community need to look at these structures and say hey this is proof that farming and civilisation is older than we thought!
Sceintists/archeologists just find it hard to say hey I was wrong!

Please be careful of not confusing hunter gatherers with nomads,although most hunter gatherers are nomadic,in places like Japan during early Jamon era they had settled communites of fairly sophistcated dwellings although not like Gobekli Tepe but their economies were hunting and gathering,the later stone walls of Jericho at 8000 yrs b.c was impressive but they also had very primitive agriculture meaning they relied heavily on hunting.

Source www.ubthenews.com...
Gobekli Tepe Report

Review
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Prepared by Halbert Katzen, J.D.
[Updated 10/26/11]
Gobekli Tepe Summary

In 1994, almost forty years after The Urantia Book’s 1955 publication, excavations began at the Gobekli Tepe archaeological site in Turkey. The Gobekli Tepe site already reveals 50 engraved stone monoliths, some of them dating back to 12,000 years ago, that are at least 6,000 years older than Stonehenge and the Egyptian pyramids. A full excavation to the bottom of the site has not yet occurred, and only a small percentage of the site has been uncovered. The evidence suggests that the complex of round rooms with two especially large pillars in the middle were built for religious rather than practical purposes. Gobekli Tepe is widely acknowledged as one of the most important and mysterious archaeological sites in the world. The two main mysteries surrounding Gobekli Tepe are:

1) How did people this primitive cut, carve, move, and build with enormous stones in excess of 15 tons? The artifacts are inconsistent with prevailing theories about the development of civilization because every place else in the world, where ancient civilizations have built structures with enormous stones, there is also evidence of settled communities that practiced herding and agriculture. Prevailing theories about this region suggest that around 11,000 years ago, primitive man was just beginning to evolve from being a hunter-gatherer to a herder-farmer.

2) Why did this civilization decline over a period of several thousand years and then intentionally bury the site around 10,000 years ago? One of the peculiar aspects of the construction and art at Gobekli Tepe is that both become less refined over time. The older structures are significantly larger and more ornately decorated. There are clear indications that the site was intentionally buried but nothing to indicate why.

The Urantia Book answered these questions forty years before we discovered this mysterious site existed. The history of humanity provided by the authors of The Urantia Book recounts that a genetically superior and well-developed herder-farmer civilization existed in this area over 30,000 years ago. They also explain why this particular civilization experienced a prolonged genetic degradation and, therefore, cultural decline. Additionally, The Urantia Book says that, due to population pressures, inferior and more barbaric tribes drove out this more peaceful and advanced civilization.

Adding powerfully to the intrigue of this report is its relationship to the Adam and Eve Report and the Garden of Eden Report. These two reports also happen to reveal some of the most impressive corroborations of Urantia Book history documented so far by UBtheNEWS. The story of Adam and Eve in The Urantia Book is significantly different from the one found in the Old Testament and centers around a major genetic change that occurred 38,000 years ago. Starting with the Adam and Eve Report provides some background on the genetic issues that are relevant to this report; however, it is not necessary to read that one first in order to understand this one.

Oops wrong thread, sorry