It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Help ATS via PayPal:
learn more

Will MO EO 44 (1838) to criminalize Mormons be the template to round up gun owners and patriots?

page: 1

log in


posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 10:54 AM
In October of 1837 Missouri Governor Boggs issued "(Executive) Order 44" (aka "The Mormon Extermination Order") to criminalize, expel or exterminate the Mormons in the western part of the state of Missouri. From the Order: "...the Mormons (are) in an attitude of an open and avowed defiance of the laws, and of having made war upon the people of this state.....The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the state if necessary for the public peace....(The) orders are, therefore, to hasten (this) operation with all possible speed...." L.W. Boggs, Commander-in-Chief (Governor).

The Mormon leaders surrenders on Nov 1st but the EO was used to continue to dignify the forced removal of the Mormons by unauthorized informal militia. The Mormons were rounded up on short notice and expelled from their homes and forced to abandon their private property (save what they could carry with them through the snow) and forced to exodus across Missouri into the contiguous state of Illinois.

The Mormons took a stand against the persecution that preceded Order 44 and rather than serving to ease tensions it actually heightened them for creating fear in the western parts of the state. In the summer before the Order Mormon leader Sidney Rigdon while not intending to attack his neightbors made the following statement:
"We take God and his...angels to witness..., that we warn all men in the name of Jesus Christ, to come on us no more forever. For from this hour, we will bear it no more, our rights shall no more be trampled on with impunity. the man, who attempts it, does (so) at the expense of their lives....." SR July 4th, 1838

FWIW, this Unconstitutional Order was not rescinded until 1976 by then Governor Kit Bond.

Now given the attempt by The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to demonize patriotic Americans (supporters of the Constitution), Gun Owners and Military Veterans (who are sworn to protect the Constitution and are trained in arms and tactics) could the precedent, albeit Unconstitutional, of Missouri Executive Order # 44 be a template to criminalize supporters of the Second Amendment who refuse to turn in firearms (subsequent to a confiscation order) and then to round them up (since they cant be merely moved from state to state under a federal order) and use deadly force (defacto "extermination") if they resist and do not peaceably comply?
Thoughts and Comments are welcome.

posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 11:02 AM
reply to post by CosmicCitizen

I think you raise a very interesting point, if taken in some isolation of times and circumstances. If taken that way, then it could be seen as a path to repeat the past. I'd note 3 things here though.

First, the Mormon's did pushing of their own on all this and it was by no means a one way street for that. It's leaving books of history out of this to suggest it was a totally unprovoked persecution of the Mormon people. Living in Missouri, I've made it something of a point to learn my state's history and there is MUCH more to it than the basic summary there. It's worth researching, to be sure.

Second, America was a VERY VERY different place at that time. Slaves were the norm, not the exception. Medical technology was a step above Witch Doctoring and I'll bet not everyone thought the Salem Witch Trials had been THAT bad an idea by that point in history. Very different times. Right up to the early 20th century, state policy of forced sterilization, frontal lobotomy for behavioral modification as well as pure Eugenics were embraced in America. Thank God for the changing times.

Last, Missouri was the 3rd most fought over state in the entire Civil War period. We were (and in some ways, still are) a divided state. If it were to come to pushing and shoving again? We'd follow the path of history, I have NO doubt. We'll again be a divided state and such concepts as this will never be tolerated as a state policy. Not by enough to allow it to happen and go without outright forceful challenge.

posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 11:13 AM
As Wrabbit says, Missouri history (and all history for that matter) is more complex than the history books usually record. I have deep roots in Missouri, BTW. I was a grown man before I learned (for instance) that Quantrill's raid on Lawrence, Kansas was bandied about as a propaganda tool to demonize one side. In fact, the raid on the town of Osceola by Kansans was worse, and is little known - it's the usual victor history. For PC purposes, the "Mormon Wars" are usually glossed over, and for that reason, the old Missouri EO will not be used as a precedent, but I'm sure they will find some excuse or other.

posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 12:55 PM
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Yes, the history of the Mormon conflict ("Mormon Wars") in Missouri is more complex and deep than commonly known and too much perhaps for this thread (at least in the OP). People back in the 1830s were a tougher breed and the Mormon conflict was not a one way persecution in the sense that these people did fight back and even counter attacked. The July 4th Rigdon speech also further inflammed and raised the issue of "extermination" (basically a "them or us" situation)....picking up where the quote fr the OP left off; "....And that mob that comes on us to disturb us; it shall between us and them a war of extermination, for we will follow them till the last drop of their blood is spilled, or else they will have to exterminate us: for we will carry the seat of war to their own houses, and their own families, and one party or the other shall be utterly destroyed!"

The risk for Patriots is in challenging the Federal Government when the persecution and confiscation of guns comes. Failure to comply will defacto criminalize a large portion of the population and if they further demonize those who are Veterans and non-compliant Christians and if said people challenge the government they will probably get a war as did the Mormons....dare I say "extermination" even?

posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 01:02 PM
Lucky for those who believe in the fatasy that the goverment wants take thier guns, that they live in an America where such a thing could not happen again.

posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 01:15 PM
reply to post by MrSpad

There is no question that the government (especially the current administration) fantasizes about taking the guns from Americans (as much as is politically feasible). See statements by Diane Feinstein (author of AWB) and the recent internal White House Memo* which has not been denied. As to whether it is feasible in today's world is another issue.


edit on 26-2-2013 by CosmicCitizen because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-2-2013 by CosmicCitizen because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 01:15 PM
In a word, NO.......

posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 01:19 PM
reply to post by stirling

Thank you for your input...nonetheless, it is an interesting bit of American history (conflict of a group of demonized citizens vs their government, albeit the state government) that we need to be conscious of as this was not the same as the policy of genocide against the indigenous native Americans who were not citizens and were considered savages....(altho that was still a disturbing precedent in our history as well).

posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:10 PM
You seem to be forgetting that the reason for the "Mormon" extermination order was about removing a group of people wholly, not just because they had guns. It was extermination of armed men, women, and children. Since it has been rescinded as being unconstitutional, the chance something similar using it as a template will surely fail.
Not that anyone would do this anyway. The right to bear arms is entrenched in the USA people. No one will take away your guns. Even the stupid ones, like assault weapons.
So be safe, put the safety on and lock it away like it should be.

posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 05:25 PM
reply to post by stars15k

It took 138 years to officially rescind the order as "unconstitutional"....too late for those then affected, dont you think? They didnt come after them because they had guns (most did back then) but because they were starting to use them to counter their persecution (the Mormons were not accepted because of their religion). They were essentially labeled as "terrorists" and thus were to be either relocated or exterminated as the case may be. If something like this were to happen under Martial Law and it was not rescinded as Unconstitutional for a number of years....well it would be too late for those relocated to a fema camp or exterminated for not complying with the "order".

new topics

top topics


log in