Child murderer Subhan Anwar found dead in his cell at high-security prison

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posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by Darkphoenix77
reply to post by brookster18
 


You can't change the definition of something just because you don't like the definition, that isn't how reality works......

Exactly what definition has been changed here?

Your words made no sense.

You open with a definition based on morailty and yet this is not about morailty, this is a bout LAW. Law is a bunch of WORDS defining acceptable actions and courses of responding actions for afformentioned actions.

Can you describe any laws that define EVIL or MORALITY?

Reffer to any cases where people were imprisoned for being inherently EVIL or AMORAL without committing any acts defined by WORDS OF LAW?

Because your argument seems short, emotive and based on the assumption that being evil or imoral is a crime.

Maybe if you could respond without links to you tube videos and type some words etc onto a page to place your argument it might hold some weight.




posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by brookster18

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77
reply to post by brookster18
 


You can't change the definition of something just because you don't like the definition, that isn't how reality works......

Exactly what definition has been changed here?

Your words made no sense.

You open with a definition based on morailty and yet this is not about morailty, this is a bout LAW. Law is a bunch of WORDS defining acceptable actions and courses of responding actions for afformentioned actions.

Can you describe any laws that define EVIL or MORALITY?

Reffer to any cases where people were imprisoned for being inherently EVIL or AMORAL without committing any acts defined by WORDS OF LAW?

Because your argument seems short, emotive and based on the assumption that being evil or imoral is a crime.

Maybe if you could respond without links to you tube videos and type some words etc onto a page to place your argument it might hold some weight.


Law is based on morality, you can't have one without the other. Law is a society's set of rules based on what the morals of that society are. It is the perversion of morals that lead to the existance of injustice.

A society without any law is an anarchy. Where your belief would fit right in as it is a system where there are no rights or wrongs and it is every man for themselves and anything goes.

Did the video bother you? I'm sorry if my belief that what you have been saying is just plain wrong bothers you but it's just the way it is...
edit on 17-2-2013 by Darkphoenix77 because: civility



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by brookster18
He was a superior force educating a weaker one.


What exactly is wrong with your brain? He was now educating this 2 year old child by beating her and throwing her into a dryer? I can't even believe what I am hearing.


Yuh know, People who think like you are dangerous, and are a very big part of the problem. I will go so far as to say that you need to be locked up yourself. Your warped views have exposed you as one sick and twisted individual, and I really hope that you do not have any children?

I would really like to tell you what I think of you, and what should be done in order to cure your mentall illness, but I won't. ~$heopleNation
edit on 17-2-2013 by SheopleNation because: TypO



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 07:40 PM
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Video didnt bother me at all.

For your interest, law is not based on morality unless your an old school positivist or a Greek philospoher.

If you take a moment to consider the world we live in, otherwise know as reality to all those in the know, you'll realise we live in a mix of positivist and legal realist way of thinking. You'll note that we are virtually a secular society, US and the UK. This in all intense and purposes means godless, as any Middle Eastern citizen will tell you.

We abide by the letter of the law.

Especially so in England were, as with the Nazis, the government has striven to remove all religious artifact from courts of law. I believe the US is moving in the same direction.

So.

I'll reiterate my two main point of frustration:

1) that people are so ready to morally judge murders calling them evil and deserving all the pain possible even though they are already serving the sentence delivered by the representatives of the soverign state on behalf of the people of that land.

2) That in jail prisoners hate child murderers. they dont. They are like any people, they pick on the weak. But look at people like the Moors Murderers. they were gods in jail and ruled with respect. Whilst people like Muria beachhook become ultimate nonces. Its nothing to do with the crime, its just they way they hold themselves, prey on or be preyed upon, thats how prisons work and child killers are not natural preyers like gangsters are and so they automatically sink to the bottom of the food chain.

I think it was Plato that said people get the governemtn they deserve. And the people of England have a governemt that doesnt kill people that have killed others.

I enjoy holidaying in Florida, and would be proud to be an American citizen where they actually perfuntionally kill murders. I have been looking at the Wiki page for Florida execttions:

en.wikipedia.org...

I note that on that list there are no parents that have killed their children.

Do they have it wrong? Have they determined a 'greater evil' that this man who remove the lifeforce of his own child?

Further, if you consider these killer heros, maybe not you but others, then what do you say to the victims of those criminals? Lets assume they were murderers? Do you say, hey, they killed a child killer so now they are good guys, hope thats ok with you. No, there are victims that likewise will never forgive their actions.

And also. Really, he was found with a broken neck. How do you know he wasnt trying to murder peter Sutcliffe and Rosemary West in one go. Would he be a good guy in your books then?

What if he died accidently whilst struggling over something incidental?

Really, the sense is that noble honest to god murderers did a good deed to rid the world of a man who through a clear mental deficiency destroyed his own life via a brutal series of attacks on his own flesh and bllod (his own family not by birth I know), not someone elses child, his own.

What i'd like people like you to do is grade murderers on their evil. Really, I was reading about a hard drugs dealer that shot another hard drugs dealer to move in on his territory. Eveil enough for you? Geater or less? They sold drugs that destroyed peoples lives, lead them to miss out of social events, loose their jobs, commit crimes to feed their addiction. How many peoples lives would he have to destroy until he was more evil that this child killer? Or does the fact that he blew away a rival hard drugs dealer make him a hero.

Post me a you tube video to get out of that.

Seriosuly you can go around calling people evil and demanding they are murdered in their cells. Thats what muslim jiahadists do. Openly calling for a persons murder is a crime in the UK and probably in the UK too. Murderers are people that are generally capable of as much good as anyone. they pay for their crimes. Once paid, they are free. Thats how it is. They are not morally circumsised. the fact that he wasnt executed is a symptom of the nations people.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by SheopleNation

Originally posted by brookster18
He was a superior force educating a weaker one.


What exactly is wrong with your brain? He was now educating this 2 year old child by beating her and throwing her into a dryer? I can't even believe what I am hearing.


Yuh know, People who think like you are dangerous, and are a very big part of the problem. I will go so far as to say that you need to be locked up yourself. Your warped views have exposed you as one sick and twisted individual, and I really hope that you do not have any children?

I would really like to tell you what I think of you, and what should be done in order to cure your mentall illness, but I won't. ~$heopleNation
edit on 17-2-2013 by SheopleNation because: TypO


Again, more frustration.

Did I condone what he did? no.

I simply looked at it from another point of view.

I thought that ATS was a basion of looking outside the box.

Are you incapable of contemplating his side of the story or do you simply refuse to.

Id expect that in the comments section of the Sun or Daily Mail as well as the annals of CIA psy-ops agents, but not from people with an interest in ethics, truth and conspiracies.

If this was a child with a gun in a US school you'd all be out there talking about conspiracies.

But not here?

Whys that? Doesnt suit your way of thinking? Not on the agenda? Why not suggest he was set up? Why not claim a false flag? Why not suggest he was a mind control manchurian candidate.

Oh, no. Its just one long hate and emotive fest.

In your country each year about 1500 children die each year in similar situations. It happens all the time. Its common. Its not unusual. And in all cases they are not doing what normal people would do. It doesnt mean they are evil. Nor does it mean that they should not be punished for their crimes. But to blindly praise their subsequent murders in prison is no different to jiahdists demanding the death of an infidel.

You just stay there on the easy to win moral ground, dont worry about tackling difficult issues. Thats for people that have the ability to think. No need for you to strain a muscle.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 08:22 PM
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Heres a quote from a really old book.

Forgive them lord for they know not what they doeth.

Historically books were used to convey wisdom and understanding to future generations. They were a bit like web forums but they werent dominated by the lowest common denominators in ethical thinking.



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by brookster18
 


I have never read a more warped, from another world, load of mindless drivel as what you just posted. It is you, and you alone than can't seem to comprehend that most of us do not give one ounce of a damn about this creature's motives for doing what he has done. Why can't your brain inhale that?

You know what I think? I think you're trying to get a rise out of us all here, because a child was involved, like some sick and twisted deranged lunatic. Other than that assumption being the case, then you truly have bumped your head or were dropped on it early in your existence as an infant.

Only Foolish mortals who think like you would be willing to put forth more effort into studying these worthless pieces of trash than you would in making sure that they pay the price for stealing another person's life from them. Who the hell do you think you are anway?

You can ramble on all day long, blah, blah, blah and more blah. Hell, you can pound sand or watch paint dry all day long but you will never convert the level headed majority into believing pretty much anything whatsoever that has spilled out of your mentally deranged pie hole.

I also think that you like to hear yourself talk, and as I mentioned before, you're doing this in order to get a rise out of us folks here who are very disturbed by this tragedy. To be perfectly honest, you're clearly part of the problem and are one of the evil ones.

Know what? I wish they would throw you into the same cell as they did that bottomfeeder. See how your way of thinking spreads your evil like a plague?

The only solution for evil is to fight fire with fire and hopefully one day defeat and eradicate it by legally embracing harsh deterrents that will save innocent lives. I don't understand what is wrong with that approach, nor what is wrong with you?
~$heopleNation



edit on 17-2-2013 by SheopleNation because: TypO



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 09:08 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Feb, 17 2013 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by brookster18
 



Originally posted by brookster18

His actions were throughout to punish the child. Ergo, to instill a sense of what what right and wrong. He didnt do it for pleasure or self gain. His mind was as mentioned before, in a 'piosoned' place. He acted as he felt fit to instill correct behaviour. At the age of 21 was he perfectly suited for that role? Did he understand the true and fuller result of his actions?



I believe you're a mite fuzzy on where the line gets drawn between "education", "correction", and "torture". If his mind was that diseased, he had no place in society to begin with. Good riddance.

Also, if by the age of 21 he was unaware of the fragility of a 2 year old as relates to being beaten with iron bars and placed in a tumble dryer, then his mind was beyond redemption. Good riddance again.

I was able to make that distinction long before age 21. I don't think I've ever even met anyone who couldn't.

edit on 2013/2/17 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by brookster18
Video didnt bother me at all.


Okay, but I really was indifferent even if it had.



For your interest, law is not based on morality unless your an old school positivist or a Greek philospoher.


For your interest, it is still based on morality whether you believe it or not. Beating a child with a metal rod or putting them in a dryer in spin cycle has never been ok here, and in any normal country never will be.



If you take a moment to consider the world we live in, otherwise know as reality to all those in the know, you'll realise we live in a mix of positivist and legal realist way of thinking. You'll note that we are virtually a secular society, US and the UK. This in all intense and purposes means godless, as any Middle Eastern citizen will tell you.

We abide by the letter of the law.


And now we get to the meat of the matter don't we? This is not, and never has been the middle east. If you want to adhere to their laws then that is where you should be. Beating children unto death will not ever be legal here or looked upon favorably no matter how you wish it so. I would say that it is a failure of the legal system in that he did not get death the first time around. So sorry, no tears for the morally exempted from me, justice just took longer to reach him, eventually we all must answer for the wrongs we do and he answered for his finally.



Especially so in England were, as with the Nazis, the government has striven to remove all religious artifact from courts of law. I believe the US is moving in the same direction.

So.

I'll reiterate my two main point of frustration:

1) that people are so ready to morally judge murders calling them evil and deserving all the pain possible even though they are already serving the sentence delivered by the representatives of the soverign state on behalf of the people of that land.

2) That in jail prisoners hate child murderers. they dont. They are like any people, they pick on the weak. But look at people like the Moors Murderers. they were gods in jail and ruled with respect. Whilst people like Muria beachhook become ultimate nonces. Its nothing to do with the crime, its just they way they hold themselves, prey on or be preyed upon, thats how prisons work and child killers are not natural preyers like gangsters are and so they automatically sink to the bottom of the food chain.

I think it was Plato that said people get the governemtn they deserve. And the people of England have a governemt that doesnt kill people that have killed others.


I will refrain from where I see our government heading as that is unrelated to what we discuss, needless to say it is not heading towards Nazi Germany.

1. The state failed, he should have been condemned to die day 1 and has now paid the price he should have paid at the start. I would not be surprised in the least if the guards intentionally "accidently left him in harms way."

2. Most having thier own children that they still love no matter what crimes they are guilty of, I hate to break it to you but yes they do. There are lines that are taboo even for the most hardcore of the hardcore criminals and child rape, child torture and child murder top the list.

As far as governments getting the legal systems they deserve that is again Englands issue to deal with, some people deserve death for what they have done whether legally done or not so legally done after the fact.



I enjoy holidaying in Florida, and would be proud to be an American citizen where they actually perfuntionally kill murders. I have been looking at the Wiki page for Florida execttions:

en.wikipedia.org...

I note that on that list there are no parents that have killed their children.

Do they have it wrong? Have they determined a 'greater evil' that this man who remove the lifeforce of his own child?


My guess would be that there are none because child murders are not a regular occurance that plagues our society, but that is just my take on it.



Further, if you consider these killer heros, maybe not you but others, then what do you say to the victims of those criminals? Lets assume they were murderers? Do you say, hey, they killed a child killer so now they are good guys, hope thats ok with you. No, there are victims that likewise will never forgive their actions.

And also. Really, he was found with a broken neck. How do you know he wasnt trying to murder peter Sutcliffe and Rosemary West in one go. Would he be a good guy in your books then?

What if he died accidently whilst struggling over something incidental?


They are not heroes, but then again it doesn't always take a hero to do the right thing. You can rest assured that he did not die of any accident.


cont. in next post


edit on 18-2-2013 by Darkphoenix77 because: typo



posted on Feb, 18 2013 @ 12:24 AM
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Really, the sense is that noble honest to god murderers did a good deed to rid the world of a man who through a clear mental deficiency destroyed his own life via a brutal series of attacks on his own flesh and bllod (his own family not by birth I know), not someone elses child, his own.

What i'd like people like you to do is grade murderers on their evil. Really, I was reading about a hard drugs dealer that shot another hard drugs dealer to move in on his territory. Eveil enough for you? Geater or less? They sold drugs that destroyed peoples lives, lead them to miss out of social events, loose their jobs, commit crimes to feed their addiction. How many peoples lives would he have to destroy until he was more evil that this child killer? Or does the fact that he blew away a rival hard drugs dealer make him a hero.


What is your thing with labeling people who murder heroes? Dealing drugs is not even on par with child murder.... If someone takes drugs and screws thier life up then that is their problem, nobody elses. If one drug dealer kills another drug dealer he has commited murder and needs to be punished. Killing a completely innocent child does not equal killing a completely not innocent drug dealer however.



Post me a you tube video to get out of that.


I guess it did get under your skin, you keep mentioning it.....

At any rate no, that is okay. The video was removed so you can cool your jets, I have learned my lesson posting an off topic opinion on how I think your ideas of what is right vs what is wrong are complete garbage.



Seriosuly you can go around calling people evil and demanding they are murdered in their cells. Thats what muslim jiahadists do. Openly calling for a persons murder is a crime in the UK and probably in the UK too. Murderers are people that are generally capable of as much good as anyone. they pay for their crimes. Once paid, they are free. Thats how it is. They are not morally circumsised. the fact that he wasnt executed is a symptom of the nations people.


Openly calling for a murder is a crime, openly calling out for justice is not. I would say that the fact that he wasn't executed was a failure of the legal system and that is all it was. A person that murders a child should never be free, just because the system failed don't expect tears from the public because a piece of rat feces met with a "tragic end" in prison.





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