The Vanity of Enlightenment

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


I would say it in another way, nothing or no one is perfect, except perhaps God.

To be perfect, complete, would be stagnation, because to change would mean that you are no longer perfect.

Our imperfections are what allows us to evolve.

reply to post by poet1b

We don't disagree. My post might not come through clearly though.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


I think we are I agreement on this.

Life is a journey of exploration and it foolish not too take advantage of this tremendous life we live on this plane.

The more we live here, the better off we are likely to be in the next plane.

reply to post by poet1b

I'm ready for a script update though... the tech has been upgrading but we've been playing the same social script for thousands of years now and it's getting pretty long in the tooth.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

If the purpose is to experience being incomplete, then that is a complete experience by the very nature of being incomplete and those trying to make them complete are in fact doing a negative deed by trying to "make them" complete.

Is it a complete experience? Is it? I really don't think so. Experiencing incompleteness will inevitably lead to incomplete experience. You cannot be incomplete and completely experience that. If you believe otherwise, please explain.

This thread inspired me to create a thread (in my signature) called Integrity.

Is it that ones who show enlightenment have not wavered on their integrity? I wonder...

Below, Manly speaks on behalf of "passing the lamp" (integrity).

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Is it a complete experience? Is it? I really don't think so. Experiencing incompleteness will inevitably lead to incomplete experience. You cannot be incomplete and completely experience that. If you believe otherwise, please explain.

If you *want* to experience what it is to be visually blind... then if you entered into a world where you had vision you wouldn't have the "complete blind experience". It's only by becoming incomplete and losing your vision that you can experience the "complete blind life". It's about context of the desired experience. See?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
But if you continue to see me as vain, then that is your perspective.

By the way, no I don't see you as "vain"... in particular not in the way you are interpreting. However there are different ways of looking at what people do and don't do which flips humility into vanity and vanity into humility, etc.

But if you spend your effort trying to deny vanity... you'll wind up with a whole bag full of it. The vanity is always there, it's just a matter of what role it's playing. To engage at all is a form of vanity though it can be difficult to recognize it initially.

For the record, I'm not ashamed of my forms of vanity, nor my ego. They are part of existence. They are just placed in their respective contexts rather than being allowed to define me.

----

And that brings me to 444 which was my self set "take a break and finish the game I'm working on in my spare time" cue. Will see ATS once that's wrapped up. Thanks everyone.

reply to post by poet1b

Our imperfections are what allows us to evolve.

It is hard to be perfect in an imperfect world. When one goes against the order of nature, imperfection trickles from there.... like a butterfly effect.

We come into this world not new, and we go out of this world anew.

We are the past, present and future.

Imperfections inspire us to strive for a perfection.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion




I know what you mean, boredom is a part of the whole experience, you know, where you are supposed to learn patience. It's the whole yin yang thing, and then suddenly you are rolling, and life is good once again. You re-learn what pleasure can be.

reply to post by MamaJ

Imperfections inspire us to strive for a perfection.

I'll agree that my imperfections inspire me to strive for a perfect moment.

But it is not a place where I should live.

reply to post by MamaJ

Imperfections inspire us to strive for a perfection.

In my humble opinion, perfection is the state of imperfection. What better state of being, than something you can work on? A malleable vessel you can mold into whatever you desire. A vessel that provides you the opportunity to be the best that you want to be.

The be perfect...is to what? Know everything? Do anything? Have no other improvement or adjustments to make? What then? Stagnance. No...this universe is a universe of eternal motion. This means we must be in motion. The motion of progress. And only progress will give us the triumph that we so desperately seek. Because it isn't the triumph that indulges us, but what we learn on the way there.

That's what imperfection is. Learning. Experience. Stuff that makes life worth living. Memories you look back on with a smile, knowing you will never regret what you have done. Knowing that you have touched someone. Knowing that, whatever happens, you are satisfied with yourself. Satisfied with being imperfect, because even being imperfect - or perhaps because of - you have succeeded.

Another lesson of the path to enlightenment. The path to internal peace.

But it is not a place where I should live.

reply to post by poet1b


Agreed! Just stating my opinion that imperfection is not such a bad state to be in because it allows us growth, isn't that the goal? To grow?

reply to post by MamaJ


And it is always nice to look forward to those perfect moments, and have them to recall.

2nd line.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

The be perfect...is to what? Know everything? Do anything? Have no other improvement or adjustments to make? What then? Stagnance. No...this universe is a universe of eternal motion. This means we must be in motion. The motion of progress. And only progress will give us the triumph that we so desperately seek. Because it isn't the triumph that indulges us, but what we learn on the way there.

That's what imperfection is. Learning. Experience. Stuff that makes life worth living. Memories you look back on with a smile, knowing you will never regret what you have done. Knowing that you have touched someone. Knowing that, whatever happens, you are satisfied with yourself. Satisfied with being imperfect, because even being imperfect - or perhaps because of - you have succeeded.

Another lesson of the path to enlightenment. The path to internal peace.

What then when peace is found?

so many people miss the point, then fill that point with various concepts and ideas and theories and what not.

enlightenment is a real and accessible experience.

there are how to guides out there

after that, there really no more to be said .....


if it wasn't for compassion and Love, I would remain in silence

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Your question is one of the reasons why I left Nichiren Buddhism. Too many Bodhisattvas in the kitchen ;-)

But what if "enlightenment" is not what you describe it to be? Rather than a fixed state it could be a fluid process.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

What then when peace is found?

You enjoy it while it lasts.

Then you move on to the next challenge.

This world has caused people to want to feel special. Self-value has come to equate with being different from "the mob" in a remarkable and impressive manner. The mob appears collectively stupid, so why would individuals not want to be remarkable, in the intellectual sense most of all? And what could be higher than spiritual intellectual specialness?

I say that with personal experience. In analyzing this trend, I think separatism in society has a lot to do with it. With minimal social connections, I've lost my inner view of humanity as the unique individuals they are and see only the dull gray collective, with splotches of brilliant colorful light that I envy and want to be like so much.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

You are right to bring question to this. Philosophical debate often leads to semantics. This is why I should have laid out the definitions, and agreed upon them, before I ripped straight to the corollary. But I get so tired of the nuts and bolts sometimes, and I usually use the form of the aphorism, used mostly by the more negative of philosophers like Schopenhauer or Nietzsche, to incite emotion with insight instead of stuffy pedantry. No one likes to read that s##t; and the enlightened ones usually shy away from too much logic, rationality and sound arguments.


Take the previous paragraph for example, I could've just said, "Ah well," and achieved about the same.

vanity |ˈvanətē|
noun ( pl. vanities )
1. excessive pride in or admiration of one's own appearance or achievements: it flattered his vanity to think I was in love with him | the personal vanities and ambitions of politicians.
Oxford Dictionary

Vanity is a topic of great interest to me.

I see vanity, in its modern sense, as the upholding of one's self image, or how one wishes others would perceive him. This was my intended usage.

You are right to make mention of its more archaic usage and etymology, that being "empty" or "without substance."

LesMisanthrope, please clarify your hypothesis: are you saying that enlightenment encourages or bolsters vanity in people?

Or are you saying that enlightenment in and of itself is vain?

Something that doesn't exist outside of thought can not be vain or encourage anything. I only argued that he who calls himself enlightened is vain, and not in the least bit enlightened. When anyone claims they are enlightened, we intuitively know that they are not, unless we submit to paradox, thereby discovering that they claim enlightenment for appearances sake only.

It could also be argued that the pursuit of enlightenment, since it is futile, is empty and without value, but that's only because the promised reward is not attainable. When it is not the pursuit of enlightenment (an abstract concept), but instead the pursuit of the pursuit, the adventure of knowledge (something concrete, experiential) as the reward, we find the pursuit of enlightenment isn't so vain after all, only full of misplaced value.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConclusion
reply to post by poet1b

 

I'm ready for a script update though... the tech has been upgrading but we've been playing the same social script for thousands of years now and it's getting pretty long in the tooth.

For a script change? Turn around and look the other way. See what/who is standing behind you.