The Vanity of Enlightenment

Originally posted by Serdgiam

Originally posted by 1nf1del
It's a little more than you know, for instance I could get into a conversation with an imposter about "limb independence" and will know by how they talk about it that they are full of it, I can read engineering books all day but I will never fool an engineer!

But what if their perspective on limb independence is based in, say, motorcycle racing and they applied that knowledge to drums? Their knowledge of such things may come from a completely different perspective than yours, and in that way, it could be deceptive in how much they actually know about the topic if you never looked at in the way they do.

How did an engineer become an engineer? If you read, and comprehended, those engineering books.. I have little doubt they would take you as an engineer. It is, after all, how an engineer becomes an engineer.

There is theory and there is application, I can talk about engineering theory all day but my mistake would be when I start talking about application, I actually ride motorcycles as well it's not the same limb independence, when you have to play four different tempos with each limb is where the difficulty comes into play here, I don't know if you are a musician but when it comes to drumming it is a whole different animal then say guitar or keyboard!

Originally posted by Serdgiam

Originally posted by 1nf1del
It's a little more than you know, for instance I could get into a conversation with an imposter about "limb independence" and will know by how they talk about it that they are full of it, I can read engineering books all day but I will never fool an engineer!

But what if their perspective on limb independence is based in, say, motorcycle racing or dancing and they applied that knowledge to drums? Their knowledge of such things may come from a completely different perspective than yours, and in that way, it could be deceptive in how much they actually know about the topic if you never looked at in the way they do.

How did an engineer become an engineer? If you read, and comprehended, those engineering books.. I have little doubt they would take you as an engineer. It is, after all, how an engineer becomes an engineer.

Now that we have talked about it a bit, do I play the drums? Do I race motorcycles? Am I an engineer?

edit on 12-2-2013 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)

Okay lets try an experiment, try to explain to me exactly how you would jump a dirt bike, what is the process for successfully jumping a dirt bike at the apex of the ramp without being bucked off? If you don't have the right answer to this question I will know and it's not something you can look up on Google!

Just as an extra explain a "ghost note" and a "double stroke" roll!

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Very clear. I enjoy this outlook on enlightenment and I agree with it. It goes against all definitions of enlightenment, but in this case, is more reasonable and rational than what we would normally refer to as enlightenment.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

I will disagree with you that it goes against all definitions. It is perfectly in line with Alan Watts to provide just one "prominent" definer in the West... much less the many "normal people" examples on this board alone.

Originally posted by 1nf1del
Okay lets try an experiment, try to explain to me exactly how you would jump a dirt bike, what is the process for successfully jumping a dirt bike at the apex of the ramp without being bucked off? If you don't have the right answer to this question I will know and it's not something you can look up on Google!

www.motocross-racing-tips.com...

or, alternatively, I could ask someone else who does race dirtbikes and they could tell me. Giving the appearance of experience. As for me, I raced superbikes, so I will be honest and say I dont know I do miss that stuff though..

However, I used to do trials biking and downhill racing on a bicycle and STRONGLY applied what I learned from there to motorcycles. Because of this, it may appear I have never even twisted my wrist, but its just coming from a different foundation. Really the only way to tell is to plop me down on a motorcycle.

BTW, if you have never tried trials on either a bicycle or motorcycle, it helps dramatically with overall riding ability. The bicycle platform is just cheaper to get into if being used as a training tool.

Just as an extra explain a "ghost note" and a "double stroke" roll!

Now, I play the drums a little (or at least did), and we both know those two items arent too obscure, but to make my point:

www.drumlessons.com...

www.drumlessons.com...

And I actually am an engineer, but would you know it? Most engineers would discard it as false since I am even participating in a thread about something that is not quantifiable.

Originally posted by Serdgiam

Originally posted by 1nf1del
Okay lets try an experiment, try to explain to me exactly how you would jump a dirt bike, what is the process for successfully jumping a dirt bike at the apex of the ramp without being bucked off? If you don't have the right answer to this question I will know and it's not something you can look up on Google!

www.motocross-racing-tips.com...

or, alternatively, I could ask someone else who does race dirtbikes and they could tell me. Giving the appearance of experience. As for me, I raced superbikes, so I will be honest and say I dont know

I do miss that stuff though..

However, I used to do trials biking and downhill racing on a bicycle and STRONGLY applied what I learned from there to motorcycles. Because of this, it may appear I have never even twisted my wrist, but its just coming from a different foundation

BTW, if you have never tried trials on either a bicycle or motorcycle, it helps dramatically with overall riding ability. The bicycle platform is just cheaper to get into if being used as a training tool.

Just as an extra explain a "ghost note" and a "double stroke" roll!

Now, I play the drums a little (or at least did), and we both know those two items arent too obscure, but to make my point:

www.drumlessons.com...

www.drumlessons.com...

And I actually am an engineer, but would you know it? Most engineers would discard it as false since I am even participating in a thread about something that is not quantifiable.

It took me nine months of getting bucked to figure this out by accident, you expect to just throttle into a jump and fly up in the air like Travis Pastrana but the reality is you have to pull up on the bike at the apex to compensate for the suspension springing back up, you have to pull and jump with all your might like you are doing a bunny hop, if not when the suspension decompresses you are going over the handlebars! I learned the hard way! Yeah the drumming questions were pretty basic, I couldn't really think of any drum related stumpers. As far as whether I would know if you were an engineer? Of course not, I'm not an engineer, the more important question would be, could you tell if I was an engineer?

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


I agree.

Originally posted by 1nf1del
Of course not, I'm not an engineer, the more important question would be, could you tell if I was an engineer?

I wouldnt be able to say either way, even if you are saying you are not. There are too many paths in engineering, motorsports, and music to be able to apply my own bias and foundation of learning to someone else.

So, no! Even with you telling me otherwise, I just dont know. I wouldnt be comfortable making an assumption otherwise. But, that is my own bias.

Originally posted by Serdgiam


Now, I play the drums a little (or at least did), and we both know those two items arent too obscure, but to make my point:

www.drumlessons.com...

www.drumlessons.com...

And I actually am an engineer, but would you know it? Most engineers would discard it as false since I am even participating in a thread about something that is not quantifiable.

edit on 12-2-2013 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)

You don't play anymore? How long did you play, and what age did you pick them up? Limb independence was my Nemesis for about five years, I could not break my leg of wanting to do what my hand was doing, probably should mention I have been playing for about seven years, no real musical training but I am the drummer in a band now!

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Very clear. I enjoy this outlook on enlightenment and I agree with it. It goes against all definitions of enlightenment, but in this case, is more reasonable and rational than what we would normally refer to as enlightenment.

How does it go against all definitions? I ask out of curiosity and amusement, not in argument.

Originally posted by Serdgiam

Originally posted by 1nf1del
Of course not, I'm not an engineer, the more important question would be, could you tell if I was an engineer?

I wouldnt be able to say either way, even if you are saying you are not. There are too many paths in engineering, motorsports, and music to be able to apply my own bias and foundation of learning to someone else.

So, no! Even with you telling me otherwise, I just dont know. I wouldnt be comfortable making an assumption otherwise. But, that is my own bias.

edit on 12-2-2013 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)

Well here's a small example and it doesn't necessarily take an engineer to figure this one out, but if you are an engineer you will know this is BS, I worked with a guy some years ago (I do house construction) and this guy told me this story about how he fell from a three story building on a sheet of plywood and sailed to the ground unhurt! An average person might think this possible but an engineer would know, correct?

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


You're talking about my personal perspective on enlightenment having correlations with Alan Watts' philosophies, correct?

reply to post by 1nf1del


I will never forget my first wreck on a dirt bike! You are making the memory come back to haunt me.

With saying that though, a lot of us do learn by trial and error.

When we get hurt, especially. The lesson is learned and we feel "enlightened" to the experience.

Learning is what life is all about.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Ahhhhaha... gotcha.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by 1nf1del

 

I will never forget my first wreck on a dirt bike!

You are making the memory come back to haunt me.

With saying that though, a lot of us do learn by trial and error.

When we get hurt, especially. The lesson is learned and we feel "enlightened" to the experience.

Learning is what life is all about.

My first wreck was almost my last, I should say my first bad wreck, I took a quick ride down the road to show my cousin where I ride and on a ride through some of the trails I lost the trail in the sun and went the wrong way off the road into a ravine, I left the ground and thought I could ride it out, I hardly got that thought out when my front tire clipped a rock and sent me into a barrel roll, I tried to bail as my bike was rotating throwing me at the ground harder landing head first on a rock almost severing my ear, that was the worst head injury I ever suffered!

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Correctamundo.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


I'm not sure what you mean...could you explain the parallels you see between myself and Alan Watts?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

That's a pretty big field to cover.

Perhaps it would be more helpful for you to explain where you feel you differ?

You know, I'd like to consider myself enlightened, but I've got a long way to go. I've glimpsed and experiences of clear clarified enlightenment, but to be in such a state continuously, I can't do it. I still learn. I'm still wrong. I'm still continuously changing and reformulating my ideas, worldview, and spiritual view. Stick my foot in my mouth. But I'm proud of who I am. I work hard to be a good person. I work hard to try and keep my energy and purpose on the positive polarity. I'd like to think I'm at times enlightened. But I know I'm not always acting in an enlightened state.

Here it is from my perspective. It's the same as my mothers:

We are the sum of all of our experiences. Which makes everyone enlightened and special for where they are in the this moment.

Peace,
Cirque

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


I don't know anything about him. That's why I was asking you, as you seem familiar with his work. Surely you could just give me a few spare notes on his philosophies and how they match my own? Or not. That's cool too.

My philosophies are 95% me, myself and I. 9.5 times out of 10, any correlations are purely coincidental - although I don't object to being likened with theological/psychological/philosophical geniuses.