Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Lockheed HAVE BLUE demonstrator in flight-RARE footage

page: 6
27
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join

posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 04:43 PM
link   
Hey guys,

Although new, I thought I would chime in here. In the black world there have been many aircraft that have come and gone.

The F117 program was actually 2 different aircraft. The F117 was only part of the program and it was what was revealed to the world. The second part is an aircraft with a twin engine, single pilot design that was flying in the mid 70s. It was more rounded shape and looked very close to mock ups of the F19. This is the aircraft that boomer135 is referring to. It does not look like the F117 at all, and it much more along the lines of the SR71 design with the engines being mounted internally. From what I understand it was not originally designed for ECM, but it would make sense to use it for this. The reason people can not talk about it is because it is still classified to this day and is still in use as far as I know.

There is also no need for a longer version of the F117 as they have a two stage recon vehicle that does a much better job, not to mention the 3 UAV programs that are still classified.
edit on 1-3-2013 by trueknowledge because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 05:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by trueknowledge
There is also no need for a longer version of the F117 as they have a two stage recon vehicle that does a much better job, not to mention the 3 UAV programs that are still classified.
edit on 1-3-2013 by trueknowledge because: (no reason given)


What's a two stage recon vehicle?



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 07:34 PM
link   
I believe the 'two-stage recon air vehicle' he is speaking of, is the supposed 'Blackstar'... It's basically a mothership-like airframe, that carries a smaller airframe with it up to extremely high altitude, releases it, and that smaller vehicle soars off to a mid-low earth orbit... Hence, 'two-stage'.

It's worth noting that the SR-71 (M-21 was the actual variant airframe) and the D-21 drone, had lots of problems with separation.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 08:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by weavty1
I believe the 'two-stage recon air vehicle' he is speaking of, is the supposed 'Blackstar'... It's basically a mothership-like airframe, that carries a smaller airframe with it up to extremely high altitude, releases it, and that smaller vehicle soars off to a mid-low earth orbit... Hence, 'two-stage'.

It's worth noting that the SR-71 (M-21 was the actual variant airframe) and the D-21 drone, had lots of problems with separation.


----

Wasn't there a USAF variant of the NASA-initiated VentureStar program that used a
Two-Stage to Orbit craft for Global Strike Capability to anywhere within two-hours MAX?!
And it was supposed to carry 20-foot ro 40-foot long "Rods from Gods" made out of
tungsten-alloy for use as a KINETIC KILL-VEHICLE which had something like 6 times
the explosive power of that 32,000 Mother of All Bombs (MOAB) high explosive
(i.e. non-nuclear!) when they were aimed and dived towards Earth from near-space
at like Mach 20.

Haven't heard much in the grape-vine about that lately...any have more info?

---

Getting back to my "SR-117a" RECON craft based upon a stretched F-117 Nighthawk
platform, ALL I KNOW is from nebulous and very non-specific "Chatter" within the
"Black Budget Spook Space". I have no definitive PROOF nor any absolute evidence...
just a bunch of whispered somethings from reasonably well-placed people.
What I DO KNOW is that there DEFINITELY was SOME KIND of RECON craft
designed for panoramic-style photography that has been active since 1984 that
supposedly REPLACED much of the functionality of the SR-71 Blackbird and
U2 spy planes!

THAT i definitely KNOW! What I DO NOT KNOW....is the specifics of that aircraft...Was it
a variant of the F-117? Was it a smaller version of the Growler or even an A10 Thunderbolt?
Or was it the near-mythical Aurora or Pumpkin Seed (Pulse Wave Detonation-based)
multi-mach ultra-high-flyer aircraft...or was it the one of the FIRST UAV Drones?
I just don't KNOW....BUT I AM OPEN to that proverbial brown envelope being
delivered to my doorstep with some 1980's era photographs being inside of it
to give us some PROOF of what it was!



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 02:48 AM
link   
reply to post by StargateSG7
 





Getting back to my "SR-117a" RECON craft based upon a stretched F-117 Nighthawk platform, ALL I KNOW is from nebulous and very non-specific "Chatter" within the "Black Budget Spook Space". I have no definitive PROOF nor any absolute evidence... just a bunch of whispered somethings from reasonably well-placed people. What I DO KNOW is that there DEFINITELY was SOME KIND of RECON craft designed for panoramic-style photography that has been active since 1984 that supposedly REPLACED much of the functionality of the SR-71 Blackbird and U2 spy planes!


But you ignore the holes in your logic. If they replaced the SR-71 in 1984, why did they wait until 1998 to retire the SR-71 and still keep flying the U-2.

Seriously, people say a lot of stuff. That doesn't mean it is true. And now you aren't even sticking to the claim that it is a SR-117a. Now we are down to just some sort of wide angle recon. The problem with that is wide angle recon is what you get from satellites.

One thing to keep in mind is the height of the Earth's atmosphere. Depending on your definition of breathable, it ends at 3 miles. The higher you go, the thinner the air. It isn't all that much harder to take photos from 300 miles than 3 miles since the atmospheric haze is about the same. Atmospheric interference is the hardest thing to overcome in long distance photography. Given a decent budget, you can make the killer optics. But there isn't much you can do about clouds, rain, thermal distortion, etc. None of that exists past the 3 mile limit.

So satellites can produce high quality imagery. The problem is they are very predictable since they orbit. That is why we have recon aircraft. They can be there any time, but are prone to "incidents" that involve slamming your shoe on the podium. Drones can do the same job as a u-2, but apparently not very cheaply. The Global Hawk isn't very cost effective. It is still used, but less these days.

This isn't to say there is no advantage to being close to the target. But the target has to be very unsophisticated as to not detect the recon. Certainly a high value asset will have some radar, and like I said, stealth is easily detectable with low frequency radar. Note that Groom Lake keeps some old VHF radar out by the back gate.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 05:47 PM
link   
reply to post by gariac
 


---

That I got your reference to Soviet Premier Kruschev slamming his shoe on the podium
during the downed U2 over the Soviet Union with Gary Powers incident,
either shows my age or my long but tired history.

I STILL BELIEVE that an "SR-117"exist and that its mission
was TRULY low-level aerial RECON...its just that I have NO DEFINITIVE proof!
Only a reveal by the powers that are will confirm my belief.



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 10:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by weavty1

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by weavty1
 
I have a photo of a white F-117a, but not mine. It is out of a magazine scan so that wouldn't be cool to post. You can also find a green F-117a, which turns out to be a primer color.


Here's the whitey!







Sweet man thanks for sharing it!



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 11:50 PM
link   
reply to post by boomer135
 


Note that "794" was white also.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:00 AM
link   
I got to see one of the white F-117A airplanes flying in April 2000. I made some inquiries and learned that the F-117A fleet was undergoing application of new exterior radar absorbent materials (RAM). Each airframe was stripped and painted with a white primer coat. Following a functional check flight, each airplane received an new coating of RAM (improved for easier maintainability) and repainted in black. This was the first major supportability upgrade to the F-117A's low observables. Planning for the upgrade program began more than two years earlier, and application and redelivery of the first airplane (serial no. 85-0816) to the operating unit was accomplished on schedule.The fleet upgrade was planned to be complete by 2005.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 11:14 AM
link   
reply to post by Shadowhawk
 


----

OK NOW We've got something!

They don't do upgrades to aircraft that are going out-of-service...they want
TEN YEARS MINIMUM out of any airframe after an upgrade...SOOOO.....
I'm guessing these "repainted" F-117's are being re-purposed as either
test platforms for new electronic systems or as "Above-the-Line-Budget"
aircraft that SECRETLY are being used for more "Black Budget" tasks
...i.e. Stealth RECON?!

They won't go out of service until 2015 at the earliest!
I wonder systems they're testing?



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 04:17 PM
link   
reply to post by StargateSG7
 


Your logic is deeply flawed. The airplanes went through a fleet upgrade that took them through the remainder of their service life. The RAM coatings made maintenance difficult, and were modified on several occasions in an attempt to improve the situation. With the exception of a couple of flight-test airframes and a couple of spares, the fleet was retired as planned in 2008.

The F-117A represents extremely antiquated technology by today's standards. It was simply time to put them out to pasture.



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 01:37 AM
link   
reply to post by Shadowhawk
 


Is there any strict accounting on where the F117 fleet resides? That is, we have two leaked photos from the TTR, but that is about it. We know at least one airframe flew after retirement.



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 10:45 PM
link   
That one is Lockheed's and is hangared at Skunkworks.



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 11:11 PM
link   
When I read the original post, I was thinking this was a video of Tacit Blue in flight. Now that would be something to see.. Very cool video nonetheless! Thank you.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 02:45 AM
link   
reply to post by Shadowhawk
 


---
The coatings are not just a maintainance issue...it TAKES TIME to recoat
the F117...weeks! It's also EXPENSIVE so I expect that a service life extension
was requested by OTHER AGENCIES who wanted their little grubby hands
on that "obsolete" tech for their OWN PURPOSES.

ON a general note...I think we can ACCEPT it as "Fact" that the USAF
probably has its recon hands filled with Aurora's, Black Diamonds,
Globalstars, or even SpacePlane technology...and the USAF being
what it is...IS NOT going to SHARE it with ANY OTHER DOD BRANCH!
Ergo...the spy agencies DIA/NSA/CIA/NRO WANT their own stuff
and if they can get their hands on some functional (if well used!)
STEALTH PLANES...heck YEAH! they'll want those retired F117's
and even that supposedly obsolete "SR-117a" .....!!!!!

They're obsolete and antiquated only by USAF standards...but for the
NRO (National Reconnaissance Office), the CIA and the DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency)
they are PERFECTLY GOOD vehicles for "Other Tasks". I wouldn't be surprised
that a few intel honchos at the CIA especially has a few in their SEPARATE hangars
in Afghanistan, Uzbhekistan and other "friendlier" 'stans for localized missions where
pilotless drones aren't available or require HUMAN PILOTS for certain recon missions.

The CIA ESPECIALLY uses whatever they can get their hands on...they LITERALLY
SCAVENGE old-tech, civilian tech and even FOREIGN tech for their missions which
have a budget completely separate from the DOD branches. And for some personal
history on how expensive gear (i.e. F117) (or inexpensive gear) can be repurposed,
I CAN tell you ONE SMALL EXAMPLE of this resourcefulness by indicating that
I've seen items that YOU would think is simple Home Depot or Best Buy/Radio Shack
"miscellaneous" items being currently used (or misused?) for the most INGENIOUS
of purposes and tasks. ... So a basically fully PAID FOR 120+ million dollar plane
ain't just gonna be "retired" and sent to the BoneYard in Arizona (i.e. Airplane Graveyard)
to die a slow death by dust storms....NOPE! I'd say there's at least 20 repurposed F117's
being used by the CIA/NRO/DIA for mostly Middle East specialty recon operations!

Those retired F117's may not be stealthy enough to counter Russian or Chinese
radar...but they're DEFINITELY GOOD ENOUGH for the type of counter-insurgency
operations needed in Yemen, almost any other STAN or for southeast ASIA
where insurgents, arms or weapons technology is being smuggled or transported.
They SPY agencies NEED to know about them and drones JUST aren't
politically palatable for many of THOSE areas...BUT a stealth fighter with
cameras on-board is STILL STEALTHY ENOUGH for those
areas....!!!






edit on 2013/3/7 by StargateSG7 because: xtra info



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:04 AM
link   
reply to post by StargateSG7
 


An F-117 even with stealth upgrades wouldn't survive a modern threat environment.The various agencies know this, so why would they bother with them? You could fly them over Iraq and Afghanistan but why? You have all kinds of other assets in theater already, you don't need them there. They wouldn't survive over Iran or North Korea, or even Yemen. Another small problem is getting them there. The more tankers they hit, the more chance of it leaking.
edit on 3/7/2013 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:30 AM
link   
reply to post by StargateSG7
 


Manned recon by OGAs is done with PC-12s and various Beech C-12 type aircraft. The deal is in hell-holes you need something easy to maintain, not an aircraft that requires air conditioned hangars. Plus spooks need to hire civilian pilots, so using common civilian aircraft means you have a larger pool from which to hire.

If you look at the CIA aircraft at Base Camp, they are CN235, Cessna Caravan, PC-6, etc.

Your story keeps changing. Now we are up to 20 F-117a doing recon.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 09:40 AM
link   
reply to post by StargateSG7
 


Stop, StargateSG7. Please, stop. Your ridiculous speculation is making my head hurt, especially when you SHOUT using ALL CAPS.

Don't presume to lecture me about the RAM coatings used on the F-117A. I know a great deal about them. The first generation was manufactures in sheets that had to be glued onto the airplane's skin by hand, after manually applying the adhesive. It was very time intensive, so a system was developed to robotically spray the RAM onto the airplane. The entire airframe was mounted on a rotating arm like a chicken on a spit. They also tried sheets with a peel-and-stick backing, but the adhesive wasn't very strong, and strips of RAM tended to peel off in flight.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that "other agencies" had any use for the airplanes once they were retired. Sources close to the program have indicated that only a few airframes currently remain in flyable condition, and have been used by the the Air Force for limited testing.

It is absolutely not "Fact" that the USAF has a recon fleet of "Auroras, Black Diamonds, Globalstars (Did you men Blackstar?), or space planes. Those are fantasies and urban legends. Your ideas regarding how the various agencies supposedly don't play well together are not based in fact. The intelligence community shares data from a variety of sources including manned recon planes, UAVs, and satellites. Space plane technology is still under development (See the X-37B). Also, there is no evidence to support your "SR-117a" theory, and the idea of using it for extremely low-altidue operations is insane.

The F-117A is obsolete by any standards. That's not to say its service life couldn't be extended if necessary, but there was no reason to do so. That is why the fleet was mothballed, and one airframe was destroyed in a proof-of-concept demonstration of a method for scrapping the airplanes.

You are obviously not familiar with the mission of the Aircraft Maintenance and Regneration Group at Davis-Monthan AFB in Arizona. The "Bone Yard" as you call it is actually an aerospace storage and maintenance facility that provides service to all branches of the US military (Air Force, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard and Army), as well as other national agencies. Many of the stored aircraft can be returned to an operational status in a short period of time and there is a continual process of anti-corrosion and re-preservation work which keeps the aircraft in a stable condition during their stay. They are not going to "die a slow death by dust storms." Check your facts.

Why would the CIA/NRO/DIA use a manned platform (especially one that requires such specialized maintenance) when there are numerous drones and satellites available? Stealth fighters are no more "politically palatable" than drones.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 11:31 AM
link   
reply to post by Shadowhawk
 


===

I'm assuming you're LMCO or Northrup based upon your location and general knowledge
and I DO understand the general issues with RAM (Radar Absorbent Material) coatings
in terms of time and expense, but again those planes are only obsolete according to
USAF standards. For times when the Predator or RQ-170 isn't available or where
wireless communications countermeasures are being used, a repurposed
human-piloted F117 or the supposed "SR-117a" just might fit the bill.

In fact your missive about the troubles they went through to upkeep the F117
lends even more credence to my supposition that there is an active
post-retirement program for stealth aircraft. They wouldn't spend all
that time or money for upkeep until the "official" retirement...there has
to be something else going on.

And from an anecdote from some journalist buddies currently
in the various 'STANS, they've SEEN about four F117's over there
as a fleet in some pretty OPEN air and hangar space! No active
high-secrecy measures we being followed other than the usual
anti-insurgency protective measures so again, i'm guessing those
craft are NOT being used in active military confrontation, but more
likely in a RECON or maybe even in a "Courier" role.

I agree that the CIA and DIA tends to use civilian aircraft to keep a
lower profile, but I can tell you SOMETHING IS UP with the F117 fleet!

That "20 Aircraft" number I just pulled out of my head...BUT...I wouldn't
be surprised if it was true!



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 11:46 AM
link   
reply to post by StargateSG7
 


It's obsolete by Air Force standards because it won't survive any modern defenses. Which makes it obsolete by any organizations standards.

If they were in Afghanistan with no special hangar, then they weren't there flying missions. If they're flying missions, and not just transiting through, then they have to have special hangars. This is true of all stealth aircraft, including the F-22. When Hickam had them assigned they had to build special hangars for each aircraft to protect the stealth coating from damage.





new topics

top topics



 
27
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join