Physical Death. Let's Face It. Let's Discuss It.

reply to post by quedup


Considering the soul for a moment I wonder if the loved ones that are gone miss us the living the same way that we miss them ?

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by dominicus

 

Dominicus,

I think using consciousness so haphazardly to describe a fundamental unified-something might be a bit confusing to those of a skeptical nature. Myself for example.

We know consciousness is "the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings." In other words, it is a state of appearance; a notion conceived and applied to the way someone appears to be awake and conscious.

The appearance of being awake vs. asleep seems to be all that consciousness amounts to: a non-entity, nothing fundamental, and merely an idea regarding the way someone appears when they are aware (a verb) of their surroundings.

Consciousness or awareness or any word with the suffix 'ness' are abstract nouns, which represent only ideas or concepts.

Would it be possible to explain your experience using perhaps a different word than consciousness? Because to me, when you say 'I existed as pure consciousness,' I assume you existed as something to which you gave the name consciousness. But consciousness isn't a something, but the appearance of something doing the verb 'conscious'.

I know this might be confusing, but I ask this because I'd like to understand your experiences better.

ETA: In other words, how would you explain your experience to a nominalist?

edit on 6-2-2013 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)

You know so much but you have much to learn with all respect!

reply to post by dominicus


You know that those of us who do not experience this will consider this so much nonsense. I myself have never had any kind of experience like what you describe and I have cd's that will put my brainwaves in slow epsilon wave which is deeper than deep sleep and though I feel uncomfortable at that lever sometimes I never leave my body. On occasion I have had a compelling feeling that someone had entered the room that I was in only to open my eyes and find myself alone. That's as close to creepy as I have ever come.

reply to post by Angle


There is the debate of the century. Answer that and the abortion issue goes away for everyone.

Originally posted by karen61560
reply to post by quedup

 

Considering the soul for a moment I wonder if the loved ones that are gone miss us the living the same way that we miss them ?

I believe we, like all of nature are cyclical - if we were not we would be the exception hence., we have lived many many many lives in many different vehicles - If we bear that in mind we would then have to consider how very many people we would be missing. No I think it is all in the miraculous design of the Soul, that same Soul that has been with us from the beginning - who returns and returns until he/she evolves - again as in nature - it's all about the evolvement of the Soul until we discover - there is only love and we are all ONE.

Each person you see, hear feel is another aspect of yourself.

Peace and Love.

reply to post by Bedlam


If we could share a point of view we could answer this. Those that believe, believe with all their being. Those that dont do likewise. Intelligence puts most folks on the fence especially in this country where the POV is decidedly Christian and speaks of heaven and a soul. I myself have a nice little picket I call my own. My life experience is one where I have never seen a ghost or felt a ghost and of course I am still alive so I can only comment from this prespective.

reply to post by quedup


The seed is not the apple tree it fell from so it is not cyclical in the physical sense. It will grow another apple tree but it wont be the same apple tree. My child is not me but contains my DNA. Still not cyclical. It is just as easy to argue that we go into the ground and rot and thats all she wrote.

reply to post by quedup


My view of evolution is physical and obviously not the same as yours. What evolves that is not of a physical nature? Evolution usually takes a long period of time although there have been quantum leaps in certain instances for the most part its not something we can participate in except for our own being. What proof do you have that this esoteric point of view holds water ? Faith is a foolish term to me.

reply to post by quedup


That answer is a cop out ! Hey I sleep every night but my heart keeps beating and my lungs keep breathing and if I ate before sleep my stomach would still digest. I even dream so no one is ever completely without conscieousness . That would be physical death.

I would like death to be as relatively painless as possible, of course, as I am an animal with a nervous system designed to try and avoid pain and death as much as possible. However, I don't think it will happen. I think that like many if not most people, I'll experience a painful, frightening death, which will be a capper on what is a pain-driven, confusing and frightening existence.

The potential upside to the whole thing, however, is that from my experiences with loss of consciousness and memory due to trauma, I expect whatever pain and fear I experience at the time of my physical death will retroactively vanish once I am dead, as will my holographic component of existence in this reality. The universe itself, with all of time and space and memory, will cease to exist for me (which is the only perspective with any meaning for me), so the entire universe will essentially cease to exist, period. Everything I ever was or did or experienced will be a pointless nothing. No consciousness. No pain. No awareness of space or time. A trillion years will be no different than one second.

Oh, well...

reply to post by Bedlam


You forget the participation of the sperm which is alive and has an agenda. It is also proven that the egg participates as well, moving towards the sperm and opening up for it to enter. The point is that these cells unlike any other cells have an agenda and they strive hard to accomplish it. Birth control aside life happens even when we dont intend for it to.

Originally posted by karen61560
reply to post by quedup

 

My view of evolution is physical and obviously not the same as yours. What evolves that is not of a physical nature? Evolution usually takes a long period of time although there have been quantum leaps in certain instances for the most part its not something we can participate in except for our own being. What proof do you have that this esoteric point of view holds water ? Faith is a foolish term to me.

I don't have any proof apart from observing the world around me and reading reading reading - In the end I have found my truth and hopefully one day, you will find yours. If you are searching for 'Proof' you will never find it either way. Perhaps, it will take a few more life times, perhaps I will find I'm wrong!

Whether you accept it or you don't, time always says goodbye and never hello! Nothing last forever. If you don't die then your not alive.

So fear it all you want.......it......will.......get..........you! Sleep tight!

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by Night Star
If you look at serious case studies of near death experiences, you will see that you are more than just a physical body. I have had one out of body experience and a pre-birth memory that I cannot dismiss or ignore.

How do you know you weren't just imagining it?

It's the same issue with most serious studies of NDEs. They generally don't prove much, at least from a science aspect.

Let's see if I can explain... it's like when you have a dream, no matter how real it is, you know it is still a dream and not reality. Same with reality, you know what is real and what is not.

As for near death experiences, there are intriguing and convincing cases. There was a child who met a deceased sibling that he never knew about. The parents were astonished.

There are cases where the deceased knew what people were saying outside the operating room and knew what the doctors were doing and saying.

reply to post by quedup

You know so much but you have much to learn with all respect!

How well you kill with a smile, putting me down while maintaining your piety. Maybe you can teach me how.

Been there. done that.

Seriously though, death is something that should be celebrated, not mourned.
I think it's pretty weak to get sad over deaths. Let me explain that, because I understand it sounds cold-hearted at first, it's not. We all die. And I think it's important to accept that. Most people either just block the thought out of their mind, or fear it tremendously. It's weak of people to not conquer that fear. It's this weakness that causes people to mourn. This mourning is actually very selfish in nature. People are really just mourning the fear of their own death! Once you truly accept death as an inevitable part of nature, it becomes impossible to mourn death.

like i said, been there. done that.

Originally posted by karen61560

Considering the soul for a moment I wonder if the loved ones that are gone miss us the living the same way that we miss them ?

Why should they? They are with us every waking moment.

Originally posted by Ghost375
Been there. done that.

Seriously though, death is something that should be celebrated, not mourned.
I think it's pretty weak to get sad over deaths. Let me explain that, because I understand it sounds cold-hearted at first, it's not. We all die. And I think it's important to accept that. Most people either just block the thought out of their mind, or fear it tremendously. It's weak of people to not conquer that fear. It's this weakness that causes people to mourn. This mourning is actually very selfish in nature. People are really just mourning the fear of their own death! Once you truly accept death as an inevitable part of nature, it becomes impossible to mourn death.

Congrats on conquering a fear of being completely nothingness!

Some will only believe spiritualism when they experience it. I am similar, in that I always questioned religion and superstition, yet I knew that I'd had experiences which were real and that they had to mean something. It's great that we are so logical, but I think part of logic must be an open mind (not turning a blind eye to anything which sounds strange because it does.) I'm not sure how non-spiritual people might experience the spiritual, as it has always been a part of my life, but I would point out that you find it inside yourself. Surroundings can help, such as nature or inspiring music, a mystical temple, etc., but ultimately real spirituality is a personal journey. The most that the spiritual can do for the non-spiritual is to inspire, and I think this is where art comes in.

Originally posted by LoneCloudHopper2
Some will only believe spiritualism when they experience it. I am similar, in that I always questioned religion and superstition, yet I knew that I'd had experiences which were real and that they had to mean something. It's great that we are so logical, but I think part of logic must be an open mind (not turning a blind eye to anything which sounds strange because it does.) I'm not sure how non-spiritual people might experience the spiritual, as it has always been a part of my life, but I would point out that you find it inside yourself. Surroundings can help, such as nature or inspiring music, a mystical temple, etc., but ultimately real spirituality is a personal journey. The most that the spiritual can do for the non-spiritual is to inspire, and I think this is where art comes in.

Or you could point the way to a decent physical medium!