5's and 6's

reply to post by KSigMason


Wait wait you read the "gospel of mary magdalen" and found it to be not demonically influenced?

I gave up drinking for lent don't make me slip up so soon .

eta: What is the difference between a good fish and a large fish?


Let me clue you in - Jesus never gave into "archons" or "demons" so that he could come to earth. There is 1 God. There is no god above the 1 God. That God is the same God He has always been. The Father Jesus speaks of is the Father of the OT...



Did you miss the part about the fish?

I could go on do you really need me to? I would prefer not to read that garbage again but if I must compare the parables and show you the influence I guess I will...

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Wait wait you read the "gospel of mary magdalen" and found it to be not demonically influenced?

Nope.

eta: What is the difference between a good fish and a large fish?

That can't be answered as you are asking about two different characteristics.

I could go on do you really need me to? I would prefer not to read that garbage again but if I must compare the parables and show you the influence I guess I will...

There's nothing wrong with these other gospels.

reply to post by KSigMason


Yes they are very different characteristics indeed.

Would you like more examples of demonic influence and corruption of parables in the so called gospel of thomas?


Gospel of Mary Magdelen?

Let me get this straight...you read it and believe it to be a true Gospel?

reply to post by NarrowGate

No, I have no problem with those gospels.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

No, I have no problem with those gospels.

So much for logical discussion.


Good thing you weren't on the Council .

reply to post by NarrowGate

They were still men and capable of great err.

KSig and AM,

NarrowGate and Oceanborn are clearly exhibiting why Jesus spoke to people like them in parables. They cannot grasp true divine wisdom. It is simply not their time. No matter how logically you attempt to explain the continuity of these symbols, it is a language beyond their ability to translate. But God speaks in every language, including theirs one day when the time is right.

Peace Profound.

6's and 5's continued;

Another interesting case of the use of 6's and 5's is the Rothschild 6 pointed shield and subsequent fist clenching 5 arrows.

The powerful banking family of Rothschild got its name from the German interpretation of the symbol they operated under. It was a red shield with a hexagram upon it, much like the hexagram upon the fellow banking family of the Medici (the 'return of the light' was attributed to them as well as a few terribly evil popes).

Link to image of old shield of Rothschild
arcanumdeepsecrets.wordpress.com...
NOTE: I do not endorse anything written on this webpage, it has been linked to merely to provide imagery.

Rothschild had five sons and upon his death he told them a tale originally told by a high priest of Apollo (sun god, mystery school student of enlightenment a.k.a. illumination). The new symbol they operated under was a fist clenching 5 arrows. Now these sons went on to create a massive fortune famously playing both sides of the Napoleonic war and deceiving the European market to buy up massive properties on the cheap making people think Napoleon had won.

Link to image of new Rothschild symbol
www.rothschildarchive.org.../ib/articles/data_faq_5arrow


PS
I am not aware if the OP is still monitoring this thread but I hope some of this helps in answering your questions.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli



I am not taking this bait.....if it was, indeed, directed at me as we've debated the Rothschild family before. For those who are interested, you can review my reply here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

ETA - the story of Plutarch of Scilurus is that Plutarch exhibited this wisdom to his sons on his deathbed. Rothschild did not tell this story to his children on HIS deathbed. This story of Plutarch of Scilurus was actually passed on to the Rothschild children well before their father died.

Personally, I think throwing the name "Rothschild" into it only confuses the issue. The REAL point is that there is a continuity of symbolism across Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and more. There is a reason for this continuity (numerically, esoterically, spiritually, and more...) and it is NOT some secret hidden cabal whether you call them the Illuminati, TPTB, the "elite," or whatever. The reason is highly esoteric and ties into Intelligent Design or mysteries of the universe. You can believe it or not believe it. Your choice. Your freedom. Your journey.

reply to post by CIAGypsy

Have you read anything by Carl Jung?

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

Have you read anything by Carl Jung?

Loads.

reply to post by CIAGypsy

1)
In your previous replies on the matter you have stated that the Rothschilds are not interested in the esoteric so why would they use such continuous symbolism as that of other organizations associated with the mysteries?

2)
The fact remains that the Rothschild have used this symbolism.

3)
Plutarch was indeed a high priest of a temple of Apollo.

Plutarch
en.wikipedia.org...

He lived most of his life at Chaeronea, and was initiated into the mysteries of the Greek god Apollo.

That is the temple at Delphi for those who are curious.

4)
I hope they read our exchange to the end to see just how dodgy you get when real questions are asked which are based on verifiable source material that run counter to your claims about the family.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

1)
In your previous replies on the matter you have stated that the Rothschilds are not interested in the esoteric so why would they use such continuous symbolism as that of other organizations associated with the mysteries?

I never said the Rothschilds were not interested in the esoteric. Never once. I said they were not into Luciferian or Satanic cults. I said that the arrows used in their crest do NOT make a pentagram, as you were trying to say.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
2)
The fact remains that the Rothschild have used this symbolism.

Rothschilds are well know followers of Judaism. The symbolism they use is heavily influenced by their religious beliefs, such as the Star of David.

Furthermore, symbolism in human communication is as common as breathing. Just because someone uses symbolism to represent an idea does NOT mean they are alluding to esoteric knowledge.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
3)
Plutarch was indeed a high priest of a temple of Apollo.

Plutarch
en.wikipedia.org...

He lived most of his life at Chaeronea, and was initiated into the mysteries of the Greek god Apollo.

The story of Plutarch was told as an allegory to underscore family values. Plutarch's profession was irrelevant and not even meaningful to the story. The man could have been a carpenter and it wouldn't have made any difference in the story be used to relay a message about strength of family unity. Only you are looking for something more nefarious than it actually is....

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli

4)
I hope they read our exchange to the end to see just how dodgy you get when real questions are asked which are based on verifiable source material that run counter to your claims about the family.

I was "dodgy" because I refused to share personal information about private individuals?? Nice...

Oh, and I did provide sources for everything I claimed.... Sources that were based upon actual family information and NOT on regurgitated internet conspiracy.

Originally posted by CIAGypsy
Rothschilds are well know followers of Judaism. The symbolism they use is heavily influenced by their religious beliefs, such as the Star of David.

The 'magen David' was not used by Judaism until the 11th century AD. That is until around 1,000 years after the accepted date for the death of Christ. Judaism even states that it has NO religious significance.

judaism.about.com...

In Judaism it is often called the Magen David, which means the "shield of David" in Hebrew. It doesn’t have any religious significance in Judaism . . .

The Star of David is not mentioned in rabbinic literature until the middle ages. It was during the latter part of this era that Kabbalists (Jewish mystics) began to associate the symbol with deeper spiritual meaning.

The Star of David was eventually cemented as a Jewish symbol when it became a favorite architectural decoration on Jewish buildings and then during World War II, when Hitler forced Jews to wear a yellow Star of David as a "badge of shame." (Jews were also forced to wear identifying badges during the Middle ages, by the way, though not always a Star of David.)

It comes from Kabbalah . . .

Kabbalah
en.wikipedia.org...

Historically, Kabbalah emerged, after earlier forms of Jewish mysticism, in 12th- to 13th-century Southern France and Spain, becoming reinterpreted in the Jewish mystical renaissance of 16th-century Ottoman Palestine. It was popularised in the form of Hasidic Judaism from the 18th century onwards. 20th-century interest in Kabbalah has inspired cross-denominational Jewish renewal and contributed to wider non-Jewish contemporary spirituality, as well as engaging its flourishing emergence and historical re-emphasis through newly established academic investigation.

Kabbalah is merely another incarnation of the mystery schools as it follows the same basic tenets of having both an exoteric and esoteric interpretation which was reserved for the elect.

One common teaching among these schools is the necessity of evil and attributing it to God so the 'it can be what it is.'

Reminds one of Albert Pike, or Madam Blavatsky talking about there being no light without darkness.

-EDIT-
Forget to include the whole point of going about Kabbalah and the hexagram's non-significance to Judaism.

Balfour Declaration
en.wikipedia.org...

The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild), a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland.

His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

Israel a supposedly Jewish state flies a flag that has symbols of NO importance to their religion but rather that of a group mystics and money lenders.


Nice cop out claiming the private information when I posted info that has been made available to the public. That is called dodging.

Enough with talking down to people that don't buy into to your so called "enlightenment". This activity also speaks volumes about your own illumination.

Originally posted by Oceanborn
reply to post by inj3ct0r

 

...an early Christian symbol for Christ Transfigured

You'll read and hear claims that start with "early christians" plenty of times. Most of the times it means "my imagination says".

You are spot on...

For those claiming early Christians did use those symbols.. I don't think you've read your bible and by that I mean mainly OT because that was all that was available to them at the time.. They shied away from any symbol, painting, carving or statue.. They didn't want it to become an idol and receive a form of worship.. Like we see in the catholic churches of today.. Gideon who won a great victory for Israel was afraid to make an ephod because of peoples habit of bowing down to things seen and felt..

OP, I guess the meaning to the different points is up to the group that puts the material out there.. Satanists see it as this, Masons that, Wicca another.. I can give you as many meanings as there are secret society.. If you do find an all inclusive meaning that satisfies everyone.. Id love to know..

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

In 1354, King of Bohemia Charles IV prescribed for the Jews of Prague a red flag with both David’s shield and Solomon’s seal, while the red flag with which the Jews met King Matthias of Hungary in the 15th century showed two pentagrams with two golden stars.

In 1460, the Jews of Ofen (Budapest, Hungary) received King Matthias Corvinus with a red flag on which were two Shields of David and two stars. In the first Hebrew prayer book, printed in Prague in 1512, a large Shield of David appears on the cover. In the colophon is written: “Each man beneath his flag according to the house of their fathers…and he will merit to bestow a bountiful gift on anyone who grasps the Shield of David.” In 1592, Mordechai Maizel was allowed to affix “a flag of King David, similar to that located on the Main Synagogue” on his synagogue in Prague. In 1648, the Jews of Prague were again allowed a flag, in acknowledgment of their part in defending the city against the Swedes in the Battle of Prague (1648). On a red background was a yellow Shield of David, in the center of which was a Swedish star.

Right off Wikipedia with original sources quoted there..... You may say the Star of David has no religious significance prior to the 11th century, but it clearly had significance to the area of the Rothschild family origin well before they adopted the symbolism.

As for Kabbalah, yes....I am very very well aware of the meaning of the hexagram in regards to Kabbalah. And I don't argue that the Kabbalah (also commonly identified as "jewish mysticism") is entwined in Judaic texts. However, that means little to nothing to most Jews today. Same could be said about many Christian symbols. The reason being that what one symbol may mean to YOU may be different to someone else, even in similar religious usage. Let me give you an example....

The use of incense in the ancient world was common, especially in religious rites where it was used to keep demons away. Herodotus, the Greek historian, recorded that it was popular among the Assyrians, Babylonians and Egyptians. In Judaism, incense was included in the thanksgiving offerings of oil, rain, fruits, wine (cf. Numbers 7:13-17). The Lord instructed Moses to build a golden altar for the burning of incense (cf. Exodus 30:1-10), which was placed in front of the veil to the entrance of the meeting tent where the ark of the covenant was kept.

Yet, in esoteric teachings, use and type of incense has meaning. It is not arbitrary or random. Above I have listed 5 separate religions who all used incense in similar ways but whose meaning was unique to them for their purposes.

"Use of Incense" may overlap the esoteric but it's usage does not make it esoteric.....same can be said about the Star of David, the pentagram, the Christian Cross, the Tau, or a million other esoteric symbols.

reply to post by CIAGypsy

1)
The magen David has no religious significance period.

Next you will say the swastika was a Jewish symbol as well seeing as it appears alongside the hexagram on the Capernaum synagogue wall.

2)
Actually you only listed 4, unless you were including kabbalah as different religious base than Judaism. In 3 of them you listed as having the same use for incense as well . . .

3)
Why don't you contribute anything on the nature of the 5's and 6's?

Basically why not post on topic? You "esoteric" types usually derail threads like this very quick, almost like you are worried something will get out.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
You "esoteric" types usually derail threads like this very quick, almost like you are worried something will get out.

edit on 19-2-2013 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101

Why does it always come down to that. Is it just the extreme paranoia of conspiracy folks who ate too many red pills? Relax. Post all the information you like. Until you hear the knock at your door, nobody is going to try to silence you. Please feel free to post the juiciest, world ending secrets you would like.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

1)
The magen David has no religious significance period.

Next you will say the swastika was a Jewish symbol as well seeing as it appears alongside the hexagram on the Capernaum synagogue wall.

Yeah, I'd like to see you go into ANY synagogue in the world and tell them that the Star of David holds no religious significance to Jews.

Good luck with that....

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
2)
Actually you only listed 4, unless you were including kabbalah as different religious base than Judaism. In 3 of them you listed as having the same use for incense as well . . .

1. Assyrians
2. Babylonians
3. Egyptians
4. Jews
5. Christians (Since Moses is recognized under both Jewish & Christian religions)

As for 3 having the "same use for incense," I didn't say that. I never said what the Assyrians, Babylonians, or Egyptians used their incense for....just that it was popular. My reference to it being used to keep demons away was in the ancient world in general. I never ascribed that to any particular religion. In reality, it could be claimed by many....as could the use of incense to sanctify an object, room, person, or state of mind. You are only further underscoring my point that a SYMBOL can easily have more than one meaning. You can't unilaterally look at a hexagram or pentagram and say it is evidence of ANYTHING unless you know without a doubt what the intent was of the person who choose to display it.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
3)
Why don't you contribute anything on the nature of the 5's and 6's?

I did contribute to the nature of 5's and 6's. I explained that there is a continuity of symbolism (numerically, spiritually, and esoterically) which is not understood by most people but can be seen in discussions such as Intelligent Design or the mysteries.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
Basically why not post on topic? You "esoteric" types usually derail threads like this very quick, almost like you are worried something will get out.

edit on 19-2-2013 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101

I didn't try to derail anything. I'm just clearing up your misinformation. I also did not INSIST someone adopt any particular point of view. I didn't even try to tell Oceanborn or NarrowGate they were wrong. I simply said that I did not expect that they were at the appropriate spiritual level to understand what AM & others were trying to tell them. This isn't a derogatory statement or "talking down to them" any more than you would expect someone to perform brain surgery who has never been through medical school. I have explained, clarified, and provided links where necessary. I also said what you choose to believe is up to you. Given the personal attacks that have taken place in this thread, it seems those who are on the other side of the "esoteric" argument are the ones who feel threatened.

Originally posted by CIAGypsy
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

Yeah, I'd like to see you go into ANY synagogue in the world and tell them that the Star of David holds no religious significance to Jews.

Good luck with that....

www.britannica.com...

In the Middle Ages the Star of David appeared with greater frequency among Jews but did not assume any special religious significance; it is found as well on some medieval cathedrals.

I think that about sums up that matter.

1. Assyrians
2. Babylonians
3. Egyptians
4. Jews
5. Christians (Since Moses is recognized under both Jewish & Christian religions)

As for 3 having the "same use for incense," I didn't say that. I never said what the Assyrians, Babylonians, or Egyptians used their incense for....just that it was popular. My reference to it being used to keep demons away was in the ancient world in general. I never ascribed that to any particular religion. In reality, it could be claimed by many....as could the use of incense to sanctify an object, room, person, or state of mind. You are only further underscoring my point that a SYMBOL can easily have more than one meaning. You can't unilaterally look at a hexagram or pentagram and say it is evidence of ANYTHING unless you know without a doubt what the intent was of the person who choose to display it.

nice recovery after being corrected.

Well if you are going to try and include the Christians in there, their Bible says this about it;

"Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me" (Isaiah 1:13)

So according to their Holy book they should not be doing that . . .


Have you read much of Charles Leadbeater's work?