King Richard III dug up and displayed in Leicester, England

Just watched the documentary 'The King in the Carpark' and didn't realise that the dig was funded by members of the Richard the Third Society, organised by Philippa Langley.
Philippa, totally passionate about Richard, did her research, raised the funds and persuaded the university of Leicester to agree to the dig.
Unbelievably, they pretty much 'fell' on the grave straight away - in a section of the carpark marked with R ( this painted on one of the parking spaces ).

I am glad that a person with so much emotional investment had a major hand in the discovery - goes to show one person can make a difference.

All in all an unexpectedly moving programme.

reply to post by ironorchid


Just finished watching the documentary myself. Fascinating stuff, well worth a look for anyone who missed it.

I think I'm most intrigued by the letter R which was painted on the tarmac. A coincidence, or local knowledge passed down through the years?

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

And the only King of England to die in battle aside from Harold of Godwin

Although not the last British King - that honour falls to James IV of Scotland who died fighting the English when Scotland decided to invade us in support of the French...

Wouldn't the last British King be George VI?

Just curious.

He didn't die in battle.

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

And the only King of England to die in battle aside from Harold of Godwin

Although not the last British King - that honour falls to James IV of Scotland who died fighting the English when Scotland decided to invade us in support of the French...

Wouldn't the last British King be George VI?

Just curious.

he was German

reply to post by HelenConway


So how many generations have to pass before a person is no longer considered to be of his ancestors' nationality?

Hell, you could say that all the kings and queens from William the Conquerer to at least James II were Norman rather than English based on the fact that they all are descended from William patrilinearly or matrilinearly.

reply to post by erwalker


exactly that is why they say the plantagenets were the last english kings - the tudors were sort of English,

But the line in England since the 1700s is German. They used to speak German , Queen Victoria was German as was her husband Albert.

They brought in the Germans to keep the catholics out.. fact.[ ask Bonny Prince Charlie ]

King Richard is not related to any of the present 'royals'.

the Queen's family were saxe -coburgs they changed their name to Windsor during WW1, Kaiser Wilhelm [ the head of the German Army in WW1] was the Kings first cousin !!!!

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by erwalker

 

exactly that is why they say the plantagenets were the last english kings - the tudors were sort of English,

Both the Plantagenets and and the Tudors were descended from William the Conquerer, who was a vassal of Philip I, the King of France. So by your reasoning all the Plantagenets and Tudors are French. French was the language of the court from the conquest until 1362

But the line in England since the 1700s is German. They used to speak German , Queen Victoria was German as was her husband Albert.

They brought in the Germans to keep the catholics out.. fact.[ ask Bonny Prince Charlie ]

George I may have been the first of the House of Hanover but he was also the great grandson of James I.

King Richard is not related to any of the present 'royals'.

Actually he is related to the current royals, just not directly. The reason they can't use DNA from the current royal family is they are not related matrilinearly.

the Queen's family were saxe -coburgs they changed their name to Windsor during WW1, Kaiser Wilhelm [ the head of the German Army in WW1] was the Kings first cousin !!!!

edit on 4-2-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-2-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)

Did you ever consider where the Angles and the Saxons came from? I'll give you a hint. It is east of France.

Originally posted by angelchemuel

However as I am here to learn, perhaps somebody could give a brief synopsis of why he was such a revered king please? My understanding is that his mother Queen Isabella (Spanish) had her husband (Richard II) imprisoned in Berkeley Castle (Gloucestershire) where he was murdered/disappeared so that she could bring her son to the throne. In effect England was ruled by a Spanish Queen for quite sometime. Also she played a major role in Richard invading France to claim the throne, which cost him and the country dearly. So, what makes this King so special that he has a society following? I am only extra interested as I am watching World Without End, and although loosely based on fact I am not at all impressed with Richard III so far.

I think you may have your Richards and Edwards confused. I just watched that Series a couple weeks ago and quite enjoyed it.

As to the OP, thanks for posting. Have been following this all day and have read most articles released so far. Would really have liked to see the Documentary, but may be a while before I find it here.

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

And the only King of England to die in battle aside from Harold of Godwin

Although not the last British King - that honour falls to James IV of Scotland who died fighting the English when Scotland decided to invade us in support of the French...

Wouldn't the last British King be George VI?

Just curious.

Huh?

I meant the last British King to die in Battle, that much is clear from the context of the discussion. I have no idea why you have brought up George IV, as he died in 1830 from a combination of dementia and poor health. What's more baffling is someone actually starred your nonsensical post.

Originally posted by HelenConway

Wouldn't the last British King be George VI?

Just curious.

he was German

No, he wasn't... I have no idea why such a "patriot" such as yourself, Helen, continues this most ignorant of nonsense. You evaded my last question as to why they are German, all you're doing is parroting the usual anti-Royal BS, which is of course founded in bollocks.

George IV was born and raised in England, spoke English as his native language and he spent the vast majority of his life living in London and even tried to marry a commoner. He was born to a British father. It was his Grandfather, George II, that was the last Monarch to be born outside England and to not speak the language.

By any measure, that makes him English. To put it into context, if you're saying the Royals are German, then you must also believe I am Irish as I have Irish relative in the 1700's as well. I bet you probably do to, I highly doubt you (or anyone else) is a "thoroughbred" Englishman as such a thing does not exist, as by definition, the English are a mongrel race comprised of many different ethnic sources.

Of course, as a proud patriot, you would know this, so I digress.

reply to post by HelenConway


Helen, you ignore the FACT that 69% of the population are of White descent... How then can that be a Pakistani claiming to English, unless they went all Michael Jackson....

I am beginning to think you're one one of these Little Englander types who often makes outlandish claims as to the fall of our country, based upon erroneous facts and reasoning... We're not being overwhelmed by brown people, Helen, check your facts and not the Daily Mail....

reply to post by HelenConway


The (current) Queen mother was British, her husband King George VI was born of Mary Teck (born and raised in Britain to German AND British parents) and George V (born and raised in Britain)

So George VI and Elizabeth were British.

Lets go back......


George V was born of Edward VII (born and raised in Britain) and Alexandra of Denmark (ok, not quite British)

So George was British, we still have British blood in the mix.....lets keep going

Edward VII was the son of Queen Victoria (born and raised in Britain) and Prince Albert of Saxe - Coburg and Gotha (pfft, not Britsh)

Ok, some mix in the works, but still British blood on the go, phew

Queen Victoria......born of Prince Edward, Duke of Kent (Born and raised British) and Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (yes I know, not very British)

So, we have got this far back, and we still have British in the mix, fantastic.....

Prince Edward........father George III (British born and bred)

anyway, point is, no matter how far back you go, there is British thrown into the mix somewhere along the line.

The current royal family are just as British as any one of us, as I am sure you are aware, we can all trace our routes back to all over the world at some point.


BTW, can anyone else not help but think of the first Blackadder series when reading this story presented in the OP?

Do we know why the church that Richard was buried in was demolished? If so was this during the dissolution of the monastries? The remains of llewellyn the great we're lost in this way also, his tomb was found in a river but not his remains.

reply to post by Gildenel


Correct, it was due to Henry VIII and his views on the Church that it was demolished.. It was a Priory really, with a church on site.

Originally posted by HelenConway
exactly that is why they say the plantagenets were the last english kings - the tudors were sort of English,

The Tudors were largely Welsh, if we're going to be pedantic.

Originally posted by HelenConway
But the line in England since the 1700s is German. They used to speak German , Queen Victoria was German as was her husband Albert.

No, it isn't. George II was German, from that point on every Monarch was born in the UK and spoke English, was raised as English and behaved as such. Victoria was not German, you are talking utter bollocks, Helen.

Originally posted by HelenConway
They brought in the Germans to keep the catholics out.. fact.[ ask Bonny Prince Charlie ]

What? The Act of Settlement (which was what was conceived to keep the Catholics off the throne) at the end of the 17th century saw Queen Mary II (and King William, a Dutchman) take the throne, from the House of Stuart no less. George I was related to the Stuarts, despite being a different House and inherited based upon hereditary right.

Originally posted by HelenConway
King Richard is not related to any of the present 'royals'.

He is, just not as a direct descendant. Our current Queen can trace her ancestry back to Harold of Godwin. Harold was related to William the Conqueror, as Harold and William were both cousins of Edward the Confessor... Again, you should know this....

Originally posted by HelenConway
the Queen's family were saxe -coburgs they changed their name to Windsor during WW1, Kaiser Wilhelm [ the head of the German Army in WW1] was the Kings first cousin !!!!

So? All the Royal houses are related, this doesn't affect their nationality. All Royals from around the middle of the 18th (1738 to be exact) century were born and raised in England.. At what point, Helen, will you accept someone's nationality?

Using your logic, a 3rd Generation Afro-Caribbean person cannot call themselves English. Do you agree with that? When you see Ashley Cole play for England, do you think to yourself
"He isn't English - he's black"... If you do, that is a terrible, crying shame.

Originally posted by erwalker

Originally posted by angelchemuel
However as I am here to learn, perhaps somebody could give a brief synopsis of why he was such a revered king please? My understanding is that his mother Queen Isabella (Spanish) had her husband (Richard II) imprisoned in Berkeley Castle (Gloucestershire) where he was murdered/disappeared so that she could bring her son to the throne.

The mother of Richard III was not Queen Isabella of Spain. Her name was Cecily Neville and she was the only wife his father Richard Plantagenet, 3rd Duke of York.
His father died at the Battle of Wakefield in 1460 during the War of the Roses.

Richard II was not the father of Richard III. Richard II died in 1400 at Pontefract Castle, 54 years before Richard III was born, and may have been murdered on the orders of Henry IV. The 2nd wife of Richard II was Isabella of Valois, the daughter of King Charles VI of France and was not Spanish.

By the way, don't take Shakespeare's versions of history in his plays as historically accurate.

Aha! Thank you for that....Seems I got my Dick's all muddled up! lol!
Rainbows
Jane

reply to post by woogleuk


we will agree to disagree - tell me that Albert ws not German . Alexander Danish and Mary german and victoria.
You obviously support the current royals I think they are german imposters = saxe coburgs - yea very english.
Do your research.

Originally posted by HelenConway
we will agree to disagree - tell me that Albert ws not German . Alexander Danish and Mary german and victoria.

Albert was German, yes. So? Victoria wasn't. Born and raised English/British. She had lessons in German, as well as French and Latin, but only spoke English fluently. By the time Victoria was born, her family had been living in the UK for over a century.

Originally posted by HelenConway
You obviously support the current royals I think they are german imposters = saxe coburgs - yea very english.

It's just a name! Or are you telling us that anyone with a foreign sounding surname cannot be English, no matter how many generations have passed since their family moved here?

Which one of these people would you say was English?

Phil Jagielka?
Glen Johnson?
Ravi Bopara?

Originally posted by HelenConway
Do your research.

Ironic...

Never mind the arguing, the important thing is he is being buried in totally the wrong place!

Richard III to York!

reply to post by Flavian


Quite!

He was quite well loved in York during his day and, according to contemporary sources, there was a great deal of grief in the city after his death.