Obama does NOT have the right...

reply to post by Wanderer777


What I find ironic is him preaching to let gays take your kids camping etc. while allegedly being on "the down low' himself!
I thought gays were out and proud nowadays,hypocrite.

Well... Some might say that prejudiced is "retarded." How would that make you feel? Other than a King James Old Testament which has been proven to be full of lies and contradictions, what "proof" can you provide to us that homosexuality is indeed a "choice?" I'll be waiting... BUT something tells me you wont be providing an appropriate response.

I'm not gay. Hell, I have two kids, so I'm at least pretty sure I'm not... especially if it truly is a "choice" as many people seem to believe with more passion than I've ever had for anything. But you know what? I've known gay people. They're usually much more polite and accepting of me because most of society seems to believe that something is wrong with being from a poor family.

Now don't take this the wrong way. I'm no fan of Obama, I only say things that might be mistaken as support toward his party if I think it will piss off extremists from the right side because I find that they're even more annoying and lacking of intelligence than those on the left. Basing every single belief someone has in a silly little book and using it to defend and justify their wrong doings just never did go over very well with me...

BUT...

What's wrong with gays being allowed in any of the same groups as anyone else? Give me one good logical explanation for why it's "wrong." Once more, leave the bible out of it, simply for that fact that if for nothing else, not everyone is the same religion.

I think one would have a very hard time tying to prove that gays are any more or less guilty of sexual crimes... So you can't say that there's a high chance of them sexually harassing someone because that just isn't true. It's simply an irrational fear that prejudice people enjoy having. You shouldn't exclude someone from a club, group, or organization for something as small as being gay. I say "small" because whether anyone likes it or not, one's sexuality isn't a big issues and isn't of any concern to the rest of the world and anyone who believes otherwise is very ignorant.

When it comes down to it, being homophobic isn't any different from being sexist or racist and there should be no place for any of those in a modern society.

How do they even test if you're gay? I bet there's loads of gay people in the scouts right now.

Originally posted by Wanderer777

Originally posted by iamdavid
Being gay is not a choice and you just proved to all of us that you are either mentally retarded or brainwashed by whatever the small world around you is

Honestly, just stop and become a thinking human it's 2013, wake up, please, just wake up

HAHAHA okay well let me ask you this. Have you ever walked outside and seen 2 male or female squirrels humping? Do you believe nature is perfect in every way?
It is a choice. There is NO evidence of a gay gene. There is however plenty of evidence that people started gay and changed to straight. How? If it's not a choice then I ask you how have they changed. It is ALL how you were brought up. Of course with people saying it is okay, there's going to be more coming out. That's human mentality.

www.narth.com...

No, I do not believe nature is perfect.

Just as we are not able to choose how intelligent our brains are, we are not able to chose our sexuality.

However, I do believe that humans should have the freedom to live their life, in a way that they view as the best for them, without 3rd parties, such as you.

as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else...

And yes, displaying behavior that is not appropriate in public is wrong, but heterosexuals are most likely 1000000% more guilty on that account

Originally posted by Wanderer777
OKAY LET ME CLEAR SOME THINGS UP HERE. THIS THREAD WAS NOT HERE TO BASH GAYS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM. IT WAS HERE TO BASH HOW AN ORGANIZATION IS SLOWLY LOSING ITS RIGHTS TO NOT ALLOW GAY PEOPLE IN THEIR ORGANIZATION. EVERYONE HAS THAT RIGHT. JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DOES NOT AGREE WITH IT, DOES NOT MAKE THEM A BAD PERSON. IF THEY WANT TO BE IN SCOUTS THEN MAKE A GAY SCOUTS AND DONT ALLOW STRAIGHT PEOPLE IN IT. I GUARANTEE THAT YOU WONT SEE STRAIGHT PEOPLE TRYING TO FORCE THEM TO LET US IN.

The all CAPS weren't necessary to prove your point.Although I agree with your premise that this specific organization shouldn't be mandated to include any individual who wishes to be a member based on their sexual orientation, it is quite obvious you attempted to smuggle in your anti gay bigotry through a means of individual rights.You are anti gay based on your religious beliefs, in which you're using nationalism to protect your beliefs. It's what we call Theocracy vs Democracy. The political uses of religion, and the religious uses of politics to ensure the social benefits of the Christianity status quo.EDIT TO ADD: I have to thank you for reminding me of that Michael Parenti lecture on Theocracy vs Democracy, its a good hour of listening, in which I will listen to again now.

reply to post by Anundeniabletruth


When you are finished making sure there are no Gays in the Boy Scouts.

Clean up the Catholic Church for me...OK...

Des

So, just what is the problem with having gay people in the boy scouts anyway? Do you feel similarly towards homosexuals serving in the defence forces too?

Originally posted by Destinyone
reply to post by Anundeniabletruth

 

When you are finished making sure there are no Gays in the Boy Scouts.

Clean up the Catholic Church for me...OK...

Des

I'm confused... I was defending the rights of gay people and claiming that prejudice is ignorant. I'm one of those people who actually wishes that someone would clean up the Catholic Church. I kind of feel like the reason why so many ignorant people believe that gays are all a bunch of pedophiles is because of the Catholic Church.

reply to post by Wanderer777


OP.... Stop before you dig yourself deeper....and I don't mean that in ANY WAY as joining everyone else in dumping on you. I mean it in having BEEN you very recently. I think half of ATS got a good kick on the poor rabbit here for trying to highlight the same thing with the same organization from a different angle.

It could be almost anything ELSE...but the moment the word "Gays" comes into it? All logic is out the window as if it grew wings and got sent off at warp speed.

It seems ...whatever the means are, when the Gay community (and a few others) are the subject? The ends justify the means...BY ANY means necessary.

Now I don't think most people here actually believe that as a blanket idea ...but the fact I found is simply that homosexuality is FAR too emotionally charged an issue to even consider attacking methods used ...because again, the passion means the ends justify it.

So... CRAZY as it is? You actually see people here who would call for Obama's head on a pike if he tried forcing almost anything else ...anything at all...on a private organization. Except THIS thing. Crazy huh?

I think it’s up the scouts to allow who they want into their organisation. If they deny a leader because he’s gay, then that’s their right. However, it’s then up to the leader being denied to take further action. That’s how I view it, anyway. Chances are, the scouts will lose every time they deny a gay leader who then takes it further.

Although the thing I don’t understand is why would you want to be part of a group that do not want you and do not accept you for who you are? I know personally if I were a gay man I would not want to be around bigoted idiots that can’t see past relatively minor thing such as sexuality. There’s so much more to a human being then them being gay, straight, bi or asexual (no attractive to other sexes).

Primitive thinking but I do think they have the right, regardless of how politically incorrect it may be, to accept who they like into their ranks. And I do think it’s the gay man’s right to appeal to a higher power if denied based on his sexuality.

Originally posted by SpearMint
How do they even test if you're gay? I bet there's loads of gay people in the scouts right now.

I bet more than half.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Wanderer777

 

OP.... Stop before you dig yourself deeper....and I don't mean that in ANY WAY as joining everyone else in dumping on you. I mean it in having BEEN you very recently. I think half of ATS got a good kick on the poor rabbit here for trying to highlight the same thing with the same organization from a different angle.

It could be almost anything ELSE...but the moment the word "Gays" comes into it? All logic is out the window as if it grew wings and got sent off at warp speed.

It seems ...whatever the means are, when the Gay community (and a few others) are the subject? The ends justify the means...BY ANY means necessary.

Now I don't think most people here actually believe that as a blanket idea ...but the fact I found is simply that homosexuality is FAR too emotionally charged an issue to even consider attacking methods used ...because again, the passion means the ends justify it.

So... CRAZY as it is? You actually see people here who would call for Obama's head on a pike if he tried forcing almost anything else ...anything at all...on a private organization. Except THIS thing. Crazy huh?

I really thought that you were bigger than that. I'll concede that I was wrong. I guess that I'm not good at reading people even at my age.

reply to post by Wanderer777


The board of the Boy scouts makes this decision, NOT Obama. Obama just said what HE thought should happen.

The national executive board, which lists more than 70 members, is expected to vote on Wednesday, the last day of a three-day meeting, on whether to lift the ban they had reaffirmed just last year amid criticism from gay rights groups and gay former Scouts and Scout leaders.

Reuters

And Obama most certainly DOES have the right to say what he thinks... Just like you have the right to say what you think here.

Are you suggesting the first amendment be overturned? Because that is the right Obama is exercising by giving his view...

Originally posted by SkipIntro

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Wanderer777

 

OP.... Stop before you dig yourself deeper....and I don't mean that in ANY WAY as joining everyone else in dumping on you. I mean it in having BEEN you very recently. I think half of ATS got a good kick on the poor rabbit here for trying to highlight the same thing with the same organization from a different angle.

It could be almost anything ELSE...but the moment the word "Gays" comes into it? All logic is out the window as if it grew wings and got sent off at warp speed.

It seems ...whatever the means are, when the Gay community (and a few others) are the subject? The ends justify the means...BY ANY means necessary.

Now I don't think most people here actually believe that as a blanket idea ...but the fact I found is simply that homosexuality is FAR too emotionally charged an issue to even consider attacking methods used ...because again, the passion means the ends justify it.

So... CRAZY as it is? You actually see people here who would call for Obama's head on a pike if he tried forcing almost anything else ...anything at all...on a private organization. Except THIS thing. Crazy huh?

I really thought that you were bigger than that. I'll concede that I was wrong. I guess that I'm not good at reading people even at my age.

Well, to be fair and straight about this, you're not the first one to say that and you won't be the last. It bothers me a bit....but not that much. To be clear though, I don't HAVE a specific ideology I have "Loyalty" to, let alone a party or political side. I LEAN right...and I self identify as conservative. I USED to consider myself Republican but since I can't even define that anymore...I sure can't feel loyalty to it. I'd make a man like Elliot Ness think he's downright soft on crime when it comes to that topic. At the same time, I'm a big softie on Animal Rights and cruelty to ANY living thing. (While I hunt every Season I can get out to fill my freezer for a few months) Flip around again and I'm pro-life but absolutely feel exceptions for the common outrages need to be built in. No if's ands or buts about it.


So.... Yeah, you read me wrong. On the BSOA issue? I COULD CARE LESS that it's about gays. It could be about purple polka dotted midgets born on leap year for all I care.

If the BSOA had fought HARD for their right to exclude those Purple dotted folk on principle ......suffered an extended period of boycotts, public derision and hate leveled by such a minority to extort change ....and then CAVED to it for that reason? I'd still look down on them as having sold out.

If they'd shown an evolution of thought to come to this point, the point they've reached would be moot. They didn't though, that I've seen and I HAVE been sensitive to watching while I've debated whether to let my son join. They caved for the almighty dollar and public relations. Well.. Cool... I hope that does them well. They *USED* to be about not compromising values...whatever those were defined as and irregardless of outside opinion. It's a shame to see one of the last American institutions to have that position, fold like a cheap suit.

Now...on the Gays specifically? Hey.... Great.. I hope they enjoy what they succeeded in busting their way into by force of public pressure. It's nothing like it was at it's peak and won't receive support from me again. ....but to some, it will always and ONLY be about the Gays. That's summing the whole conflict up in a nutshell. Form over Substance...to the bitter end.