Enlightenment, True Nature of Reality

reply to post by Kapablanka

Thank you for answering my questions, your last sentence covers it for me, and calls an end to this thread for me.

Originally posted by siriussam
reply to post by 1nf1del

 

If you were enlightened would you be searching for anything?

And i didn't state that they wouldn't be on a forum, just that I doubt it, however I am open to the possibility. Answering the questions I supplied would be a step in that direction.

I'm not "enlightened" I've only just had my awakening, I have a long journey ahead of me if I am ever to reach enlightenment, that's why I'm here to reach out to others who are waking up, I don't want to talk to Yogis and Gurus and people who claim to be "enlightened", I want to find my own way without bias, but my search is over, there is nothing left to search for because I have the answers that I need to go on my journey, kind of like once you have the map all you need to do is go!

reply to post by 1nf1del


I completely agree with you, we do not need to look towards gurus, we need to look at ourselves. Sometimes a little guidance is necessary but ultimately the answer is in ourselves. As we are all different all our journeys are different, and I wish you well on yours my friend .

Originally posted by siriussam
reply to post by 1nf1del

 

I completely agree with you, we do not need to look towards gurus, we need to look at ourselves. Sometimes a little guidance is necessary but ultimately the answer is in ourselves. As we are all different all our journeys are different, and I wish you well on yours my friend

.

Same to you brother!

Originally posted by siriussam
reply to post by Kapablanka

 

Thank you for answering my questions, your last sentence covers it for me, and calls an end to this thread for me.

edit on 30-1-2013 by siriussam because: (no reason given)

You stated, if I were, ''you,'' therefore its only fitting to answer the question from the perspective of ''you,'' aka ''I''

Your intention to claim I am false indicates your egotistical nature and desire for something you feel you cannot achieve or realize, whereas everyone else is openly exploring the concept, as stated in my OP, ''May or may not be enlightened.''

Yes, this thread is over for you in so far as you've made it clear you have nothing to offer.

reply to post by Kapablanka

Being that greed, hate and lying are not related to truth, there is no motivation to pursue these things. Around age 17 when mindfulness became very focused, awareness of self expanded. Which lead to a major insight a few years later; Direct realization of emptiness of everything. There was no start and stop to any of these processes just fluidity leading to a mental condition of luminous thoughtlessness, whereby, anything can be considered, such a condition is free from heavy thoughts that weight one down, consider a still glass pond or lake, smooth. This leads to understanding thought as something that originates from wrong view.

So it spontaneously began at 17?

Where would One start with all of this based on the blueprints that it happened to you? It seems to all have happened very naturally and spontaneously, whereas for most others, there requires a period of research, trial, and error.

FOr example for me, it started off when I read a Koan and wrestled with it mentally. It resulted in various insights that basically destroyed everything I thought I was. From there on out, there were still various mental tendencies that remained so it was a matter of a few year of pushing away the Mind/ego as not me until an equanimity emerged. So in my case, there is a set value of factors, or blueprints, which can be followed by anyone.

What then are your blueprints for others to get to where you are?

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by Kapablanka

 

Being that greed, hate and lying are not related to truth, there is no motivation to pursue these things. Around age 17 when mindfulness became very focused, awareness of self expanded. Which lead to a major insight a few years later; Direct realization of emptiness of everything. There was no start and stop to any of these processes just fluidity leading to a mental condition of luminous thoughtlessness, whereby, anything can be considered, such a condition is free from heavy thoughts that weight one down, consider a still glass pond or lake, smooth. This leads to understanding thought as something that originates from wrong view.

So it spontaneously began at 17?

Where would One start with all of this based on the blueprints that it happened to you? It seems to all have happened very naturally and spontaneously, whereas for most others, there requires a period of research, trial, and error.

FOr example for me, it started off when I read a Koan and wrestled with it mentally. It resulted in various insights that basically destroyed everything I thought I was. From there on out, there were still various mental tendencies that remained so it was a matter of a few year of pushing away the Mind/ego as not me until an equanimity emerged. So in my case, there is a set value of factors, or blueprints, which can be followed by anyone.

What then are your blueprints for others to get to where you are?

Like you said, for some it is spontaneous, but for others who meditate for a lifetime never reach enlightenment, I don't believe there is a blueprint that you can apply to everybody, when we are all climbing the mountain, we don't all have the same climbing skills, some will fall back to the bottom and forever search for a way to the top while others will just scale the mountain like Spiderman!

reply to post by 1nf1del

Like you said, for some it is spontaneous, but for others who meditate for a lifetime never reach enlightenment, I don't believe there is a blueprint that you can apply to everybody, when we are all climbing the mountain, we don't all have the same climbing skills, some will fall back to the bottom and forever search for a way to the top while others will just scale the mountain like Spiderman!

Yes that's true indeed, however we have not yet in this thread heard of the OP's way there. It may be very universal and applicable to many people here and therefore, let this person speak!!!!

For me it's a combo of Koans, (Neti Neti) which is basically (Not This, Not This) ....anything your aware of, is not you including the thinking mind, the body, emotions, etc. Surrender, Letting Go, Anapanasati(Buddha's method), Aware of as many aspects of yourself simultaneously (aware of both feet when walking, both ears hearing, the mind thinking, the eyes seeing, etc) All of these combined will result in glimpses of, or entry into Enlightenment ...which is something that is already there and within, but is covered up by the ego and outward living.

Originally posted by dominicus

Yes that's true indeed, however we have not yet in this thread heard of the OP's way there. It may be very universal and applicable to many people here and therefore, let this person speak!!!!

I assumed OP would answer your question, just thought I'd add to the discussion!

Originally posted by Kapablanka
Depends what kind of love, the love in my heart, ya I'm a good guy I'll give you the shirt off my back, the other love I don't know about that one, no one loves me. Sad, but true, from an abusive dysfunctional family of sadistic pirates. I'm such a twisted case I could dwell alone in silence for years with a smile on my face, oh wait I already do that. might make the big jump at some point, can't see why not, lol.

I guess we have something in common

Many years ago in my youth (my childhood has been very violent) something happened when it al became to much.
all the sudden in a moment, a tremendous energy flooded me and o so clear was the notion that whatever would happen, it would be alright, trust in what will be.
This energy was so powerfull, so comforting and empowering, that all suffering was gone in an instant, no more pain, just calmness and clarity.
They werent able to hurt me anymore, there was simply nobody to be hurt, just a body to kick around if they wished.
This has been the most transforming moment in life for me, and hereafter many years of silence followed.

In a way the old me died and a new flower emerged out of the remains.
To me, it has been a renewal of life, living like a hermit.

Originally posted by Kapablanka

Originally posted by siriussam
reply to post by Kapablanka

 

Thank you for answering my questions, your last sentence covers it for me, and calls an end to this thread for me.

edit on 30-1-2013 by siriussam because: (no reason given)

You stated, if I were, ''you,'' therefore its only fitting to answer the question from the perspective of ''you,'' aka ''I''

Your intention to claim I am false indicates your egotistical nature and desire for something you feel you cannot achieve or realize, whereas everyone else is openly exploring the concept, as stated in my OP, ''May or may not be enlightened.''

Yes, this thread is over for you in so far as you've made it clear you have nothing to offer.

You miss understand me, you made it clear that we should not ask questions of someone who is enlightened, as someone who is enlightened it would seem to fly into the face of your advice to carry on asking you questions/ looking for answers, so in turn the thread for me is at an end, i am taking your advice.

reply to post by siriussam

You miss understand me, you made it clear that we should not ask questions of someone who is enlightened, as someone who is enlightened it would seem to fly into the face of your advice to carry on asking you questions/ looking for answers, so in turn the thread for me is at an end, i am taking your advice.

you've completely missed the whole point of this thread. Let me go back to your original remarks:

If you were truly enlightened, I doubt very much you would be wasting your time on a conspiracy website forum.

Your mind has projected an image that an Enlightened person is some transparent light being who no longer has to walk but floats from point A to point B, in constant meditation on a lily somewhere. There are people that are Enlightened that are sweeping floors in office buildings, working as welders, teachers in schools, truck drivers....... it's your own projections that are causing an issue.

IN Enlightenment, there is Love, compassion, and sharing with others the Illusuory nature of the ego/mind. What;s wrong with someone like that coming on ATS to share. Where else would they go to share? Considering ATS has a Philosophy forum where there are TONS of "enlightenment" based posts, it's only fitting to post here.

i just doubt that a true enlightened being would concern themselves with the argument and counter argument that would inevitably occur on a forum such as this.

That's the problem. The doubt stems from projecting Enlightenment as a impossibility.

Also would an enlightened being advertise themselves as such, I truly don't think they would

It's not necessarily "advertising", but more so just bringing it up for the sake of letting others know that such a thing is real. What were Jesus and Buddha to do? Stay quiet in a cave somewhere? This stuff needs to be told and shared. One of the characteristics of ENightenment is that it wants to be shared with others.

too much ego involved in the grandiose revealing of, for all intense and purposes a super being and smacks of someone wanting rather than being enlightened.

That's just your ego's "projection". There is a way to speak from the State of Enlightenment, that bypasses the ego nature. WHen the Ego is seen permanently as a construct that's not you, then One can speak from a place of no Obstructions, motivations, alterior motives, etc

If you were enlightened would you be searching for anything? would you not have found oneness with the UNIverse?

The search is over, there is nothing more needed. Grasping, wanting, needing, seeking, is all ego nature.

The Divine is in all of us, thus so is enlightenment. I do find it hard to believe that there is no ego involved in "I may or may not be enlightened, so test me", are these actions of someone who is enlightened. If you were enlightened you would be one with the universe, wither you are or are not enlightened wouldn't be an issue, you would just be.

But then again, I could be wrong, the op may be enlightened, they just don't use a teaching style that is for me.

reply to post by siriussam

To be fair you have no idea of what my true understanding of enlightenment is, many Taoist texts describe enlightened beings as being the normal bloke on the street, but this is part of my doubt, they pass through life without leaving any footsteps, they generally do not shout it from the rooftops because they don't need to, they teach by making people think they did it themselves, strong words softly spoken, but I am a fan of the Tao Te Ching and that may be tainting my view.

yes that did taint your view. There are more ways "there" than just Taoism. I have had various insight, experiences, ego deaths, realizations, and so on, and it has stirred up in me the necessity to spend the rest of life here to Shout it from the roof tops. You can search my posts here on ATS where I wrote years ago on posts that I will shot this stuff from the roof tops.

The thing is, I've seen that the cause of all the worlds ills are due to the ego. Wars, rapes, pillage, murders, all the worst things you can think of is due to ego/mind identity and ignorance combined.

The answer is Enlightenment on a mass scale. I think this will come within the next 100 years from technology. We will soon have tech that plugs into our consciousness and we will be able to experience other perspectives, empathy, etc. So we will have Enlightenment programs down-loaded from those who are enlightened, and then we can upload into our consciousness. I've seen it in the deep recesses of the subconscious and have seen many futurists speak of this also.

Only enlightenment will solve all the world's BS. 1 person at a time, and we're slowly getting there. With the Net we have instant access to info globally, and people are leaving the Fundy dogmatic systems in droves in search of the direct experience of Divinity.

As for Jesus and the Buddha, they both preached that the divine light and ability for enlightenment is in us all, and i believe it is, I don't believe they would pronounce them selves on a forum as " I believe I am enlightened, discuss".

they both taught to crowds. Crowds are considered live forums. If there were a Jesus/Buddha type today, and they were having gatherings to teach, these gatherings would be promoted on facebook, twitter, recorded for youtube, mp3's for podcasts, and so on

If you look at the majority of today's teachers who claim enlightenment, they usually have a book published, do retreats, and have their own websites with their own forums. It's usually always the case.

How is this promoting love and understanding, The fact that people are asking it to be discussed about themselves just sounds like either they have too much ego involved or they are not sure themselves and are looking for confirmation. So to me, the problem or lack of understanding is the ops motivation in starting the post.

Dude, Enlightenment is the biggest thing that can happen in life, bigger than losing your virginity, winning the lotto, becoming the next bill gates. It's the ultimate and its exciting. Why not share? Why do you think every post has to have some underlying ulterior motives?

I too like the OP have made claims and discussed similar experiences and there always all these haters and doubters that come out and start saying that I'm an ego manic and I'm a BS'er and this and that. I even made a thread about it:

"Why do people assume one to be egotistical & pretentious if they've had various spiritual experience?"
thread here

Perhaps you can address that thread

I know when I realized what OP is talking about here, I was initially like, "HOLY SH**, THIS STUFF IS REAL!!!! I GOTTA COMMUNICATE THIS TO MY FRIENDS!!!!!"

Then you try and tell them and goes completely over their heads, and they look at you like your crazy, and you can entirely see their own ego's and know them better than they know themselves and point out this to them, but they run and hide and are addicted to their sufferings and identities and basically never get you.

And those that do get you, you change them forever. I sat with a guy for 3 hours explaining this stuff to him, and after 3 hours he finally realized the state and it was like a grand explosion to him. It forever changed him at the most fundamental levels. He ended up leaving his job and everything behind and spent years in solitude just stabilizing himself in the Absolute State. I called him years later and he just said, "There really isn't anything to say." ......he took it and ran with it to the deepest depths possible.

I used the Vedanta method of direct pointing and 3 hours later he popped!!!!

So you might want to rethink your bias. In the Enlightened states ...there no longer is any bias anywhere to be found

Last night I received an email out of the blue from an old boss, after lengthy discussion we decided to return to work together. I'm actually an international male model, and I've found convenient reasons not to pursue this career for the last few years.

I've been a hermit for many years in a state of hopelessness and pain. I realized that by posting this thread, I was preparing myself to confirm something. Was I subconsciously seeking some information or confirmation, I suppose in a way, but of what, I now realize that I haven't been doing my best, and I believe I was seeking to rely on some supposed achievement to take the place of going forward and living life.

The other members posting near the beginning have answered many deep questions and provided much insight.

The jewel I now realize is that I need to rely on and sustain whatever self realized nature that exists as I proceed to keep me focused and do as I need to do without getting wrapped up and distracted. I need to ''do what I need to do because I need to do it.'' I might speak a certain way in this thread, but I use random accounts to spread negativity and hate towards artists or other things or people I don't like on youtube and so forth, I don't want to create any confusion, I hope I haven't led anyone wrong, I don't think I have. I'm just a regular person.

So as I wipe the tears from my face, I resort myself to living a human life and striving to do my best. Thanks to everyone who posted.

reply to post by dominicus


As I said though Jesus and Buddha didn't turn up and say "hey i believe I'm enlightened, discuss".

Of course enlightenment must be exciting, but enlightenment is the journey not the destination. I have no problem with discourse relating to the path, I love it in fact, my life has been about my spiritual side from the age of 13, the path has gone through new age theories to Shamanism,Ayurveda to Taoism and currently Zen Buddhism, all of which (but also none of) make me today. So this topic is very close to my heart. So if someone turned up to my local village and started discussing life with people who wanted to listen, I would be more than happy to join in and learn something. If they turned up and said "hey i believe I'm enlightened, discuss" the discussion starts of from an ego basis/ about the self. Not how i imagine the Buddha or Jesus to start up talking to the people, but i could be wrong.

Originally posted by siriussam
reply to post by dominicus

 

As I said though Jesus and Buddha didn't turn up and say "hey i believe I'm enlightened, discuss".

Of course enlightenment must be exciting, but enlightenment is the journey not the destination. I have no problem with discourse relating to the path, I love it in fact, my life has been about my spiritual side from the age of 13, the path has gone through new age theories to Shamanism,Ayurveda to Taoism and currently Zen Buddhism, all of which (but also none of) make me today. So this topic is very close to my heart. So if someone turned up to my local village and started discussing life with people who wanted to listen, I would be more than happy to join in and learn something. If they turned up and said "hey i believe I'm enlightened, discuss" the discussion starts of from an ego basis/ about the self. Not how i imagine the Buddha or Jesus to start up talking to the people, but i could be wrong.

I understand where you're coming from. However, each person experiencing that state, when they try to communicate it, they have to use language, old personality, all being colored by their particular frame of knowledge, culture, understanding, etc.

After various insights and realizations, I have also went on various websites and asked about it, in a sense testing the current realization against those of others, and many of them have panned out. Things is, there is no ed to this. Enlightenment gets deeper and deeper.

Also, I don't think it's the journey. I do believe it is the destination

reply to post by dominicus


I read somewhere that there was a guru who believed he could enlighten some one in five minutes, but the effect would drive them crazy. Do you think this is true?

I believe that it is about the path because to quote Kung Fu Panda "the past is gone, the future is unknown, the now is a gift, that is why it is called the present" lol can't believe i quoted that, may also be mis quoted, but you catch my drift. I think it is in the now, this very moment that we can make the choices we need to make, to resolve our pasts, to spend time with loved ones or even to just eat a meal, mindful eating can be so hard to do at first. But i also see the benefits of looking to the future as a kind of bench mark, but i will be honest, i have inklings and flashes of enlightenment, but to use it as a goal for me personally invites the ego into the equation (failure/ success).

reply to post by siriussam

I read somewhere that there was a guru who believed he could enlighten some one in five minutes, but the effect would drive them crazy. Do you think this is true?

Yes it's true. Unless your ready for it, have renounced your life, attachments, goals, plans, and your completely 100% ready to surrender and let go of everything, then you will go crazy.

What ends up happening is that you directly experience that there is no you, that you are not the thinker of thoughts, you are not the body, and you are nowhere to be located. This is such a SHOCK to some people that they start crying and they pick the ego back up and do all sorts of this things to try to hide and cover up the fact that this is the truth.

Some revert back to alcoholism, addictions, and so forth. The guy that I know that figured this out and experienced this within a 3 hour frame, he specifically left everything within days of the discovery. He left his job, rented a tiny studio, left all his friends, family, everything ...just to sort all of this out. He's just now years later slowly reintegrating back into the world.

For myself, it happened through Christianity and Baptism initially. I got baptized, and afterwards the Holy Spirit descended upon my and killed off my ego, hit my with a trillion volts of ecstasy, third eye blown open. I too left my job, took a year off, and had to re-learn to function in the world. It was years later from a Koan that I disappeared and was no more ...and that too is still in the process of integration/stabilization.

I believe that it is about the path because to quote Kung Fu Panda "the past is gone, the future is unknown, the now is a gift, that is why it is called the present" lol can't believe i quoted that, may also be mis quoted, but you catch my drift. I think it is in the now,

There is so much more to it than just the "Now". I've been in the Timeless NOW for the last decade since all these experiences happened, but there's more to it than that.

i have inklings and flashes of enlightenment, but to use it as a goal for me personally invites the ego into the equation (failure/ success).

goals have to all go, everything has to go, past, future, let go of everything and let go of the one letting go.

WHat remains when everything is dropped? Remain as that.

Anything your aware of, is not you. So when you are aware of the mind thinking, that isn't you, push it away. When you are aware of the stomach being hungry, that also isn't you, so let go of the mental identity, "I am hungry or I have to pee." It's th stomach that hungers, the bladder that is full, etc. None of these things are you.

Even being aware that the eye' see, the ears hear, the nose smells...... the part of you aware of these things is where you need to start and examine.

Edit Add:
There was a Nondualist realized individual named Richard Rose who knew how to transfer the Enlightened state. He was doing so one day and as he was doing so to a room of people, his wife, or daughter, or someone like that inadvertently walked int he room and got hit with the realization of no-self (when she wasn't at the present time interested in it) ...well she started crying when she realized this and Rose had to bring her back to the Ego identity.

reply to post by siriussam


May I ask what Koan it was?