Oxford sued for wealth discrimination: Applicant can't afford 'luxury lifestyle'

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by MysticPearl

 

That is why I am waiting to see what the economy does before I take out student loans. Sad to say, I might be waiting a while to go to college if I can't get it paid for with grants.

Don't wait. Full financial aid at an average state college is available to nearly anyone. Obviously there is debt involved, but a job paying twice the salary you would get otherwise allows you to pay off the debts over years, while still increasing your net worth and assets.

And if I don't get a job, I can't provide for my family. I would rather be below the poverty line, and be able to provide, than have so much debt I can not provide.

Also, if one little thing goes wrong, your degree is worthless. There are many things that can and do go wrong, that are not the fault of the ones with the degree.

One thing that almost insures you can get a job is a degree. The college debt thing for the most part, in my opinion, is exaggerated. Payment plans are offered. You don't have to pay off college debt in a short time period.

Originally posted by samuel1990
reply to post by capone1

 

I dropped uut of school at 17, became a hairdresser until I was 21 and am now working my dream job making close to $70,000 a year- this is all without an 'education' per say. I live a comfotable life- I don't need the most expensive things, but in saying that- IF I wanted them I could afford them.

I'm 23- I plan on going to uni at the end of this year. Untill then, I'm happy being on 70K a year.

I don't understand why people waste their youth slammed under debt and feeling pressured at school/uni/tafe etc. I have no regrets and feel that all the choices I've made (good or bad) have brought me to where I am today. I am proud of myself and feel that if I had of stayed in school, then went to uni straight away, I would have missed out on some of the best years of my life.

There is always another path- and the one I've taken is something I think a lot of people should do as well, not only for sanity but for personal growth.

Congrats! That's a good story. In my post I said “90% of those without degrees are living in less than inspiring conditions."
So, in your case, you fit with the 10% I am talking about. Some people have incredible work ethic and/or talent who may not need a degree. But the majority of people are not like that.

reply to post by capone1


And what happens if for any reason I am unable to complete my courses at the colleges discretion? There are many reasons this can happen, and you still have to pay the loan off. I know someone who could have bought a house if he never tried to go to college. It is simply a racket. Some fit in with the system and some do not.

That said, I do see what you are saying. I must play my cards right. I have been known to be too individualistic in my thought process to blend with society on more than one occasion. Call it an excuse if you want, I can see how that would fit the world view of many.

I must know myself and do what is best for my family. If I end up not finishing the degree, or a random incident that may or may not be my fault makes my expensive degree null and void, I might as well have just worked in the factory to begin with and saved myself the hassle along with the massive debt.

reply to post by capone1


You assume talent and/or work ethic = success. You assume too much.

That said, I do like the story as well.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by capone1

 

And what happens if for any reason I am unable to complete my courses at the colleges discretion? There are many reasons this can happen, and you still have to pay the loan off. I know someone who could have bought a house if he never tried to go to college. It is simply a racket. Some fit in with the system and some do not.

That said, I do see what you are saying. I must play my cards right. I have been known to be too individualistic in my thought process to blend with society on more than one occasion. Call it an excuse if you want, I can see how that would fit the world view of many.

I must know myself and do what is best for my family. If I end up not finishing the degree, or a random incident that may or may not be my fault makes my expensive degree null and void, I might as well have just worked in the factory to begin with and saved myself the hassle along with the massive debt.

edit on 23-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)

Cant anything in your life be distracted by situations? I guess it would take a psychic to pre-determine what could happen while you're enrolled. It does depend on the person and their current situation for sure. It depends on how much college they have left, it depends on family, location, etc. But even for "older" people, schools can be flexible with class times/online courses. It's worth a look, at least.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by capone1

 

You assume talent and/or work ethic = success. You assume too much.

That said, I do like the story as well.

Well, that depends on your definition of success.
This thread is about going to college or not, which is implying financial stability. In this case, talent and/or work ethic are most definitely important. So no, I was not assuming too much.

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by capone1

 

And what happens if for any reason I am unable to complete my courses at the colleges discretion? There are many reasons this can happen, and you still have to pay the loan off. I know someone who could have bought a house if he never tried to go to college. It is simply a racket. Some fit in with the system and some do not.

That said, I do see what you are saying. I must play my cards right. I have been known to be too individualistic in my thought process to blend with society on more than one occasion. Call it an excuse if you want, I can see how that would fit the world view of many.

I must know myself and do what is best for my family. If I end up not finishing the degree, or a random incident that may or may not be my fault makes my expensive degree null and void, I might as well have just worked in the factory to begin with and saved myself the hassle along with the massive debt.

edit on 23-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)

Cant anything in your life be distracted by situations? I guess it would take a psychic to pre-determine what could happen while you're enrolled. It does depend on the person and their current situation for sure. It depends on how much college they have left, it depends on family, location, etc. But even for "older" people, schools can be flexible with class times/online courses. It's worth a look, at least.

I think the point is until the rules change no one should be attending. They are full of themselves and take too much pride in things that do not matter. Past that, people can destroy your future for little to no reason in many cases. It is all situational and that is vague but I am sure you know what I mean.

There should be no pre-determining involved. You should be able to pick up where you left off at any time and regardless of why you had to leave off. There is even more of the X factor involved here than that, and it needs to be eliminated.

If I want to take a gamble, I will go shoot dice. Probably have better odds of winning a living there anyways. Because let's face it, it is a game and a gamble. No matter what test I can pass - no degree for me. No certification. Nothing. Pay for classes like everyone else///what do you think you are special or something? yes master.


Considering most "professional" people can not stand people like me, I will never make it there. I literally have to change all of my mannerisms to be around them or they will think I am just a street guy. Truth be told, I do not see why street guys are considered beneath these individuals but that is a whole different discussion.

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by capone1

 

You assume talent and/or work ethic = success. You assume too much.

That said, I do like the story as well.

Well, that depends on your definition of success.
This thread is about going to college or not, which is implying financial stability. In this case, talent and/or work ethic are most definitely important. So no, I was not assuming too much.

Talent counts, work ethic not so much. I used to have an amazing work ethic, and it never took me as far as what I am talented at does. Then again, I am not measuring success by how much profit I make.

eta: What does college have to do with financial stability?

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by capone1

 

And what happens if for any reason I am unable to complete my courses at the colleges discretion? There are many reasons this can happen, and you still have to pay the loan off. I know someone who could have bought a house if he never tried to go to college. It is simply a racket. Some fit in with the system and some do not.

That said, I do see what you are saying. I must play my cards right. I have been known to be too individualistic in my thought process to blend with society on more than one occasion. Call it an excuse if you want, I can see how that would fit the world view of many.

I must know myself and do what is best for my family. If I end up not finishing the degree, or a random incident that may or may not be my fault makes my expensive degree null and void, I might as well have just worked in the factory to begin with and saved myself the hassle along with the massive debt.

edit on 23-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)

Cant anything in your life be distracted by situations? I guess it would take a psychic to pre-determine what could happen while you're enrolled. It does depend on the person and their current situation for sure. It depends on how much college they have left, it depends on family, location, etc. But even for "older" people, schools can be flexible with class times/online courses. It's worth a look, at least.

I think the point is until the rules change no one should be attending. They are full of themselves and take too much pride in things that do not matter. Past that, people can destroy your future for little to no reason in many cases. It is all situational and that is vague but I am sure you know what I mean.

There should be no pre-determining involved. You should be able to pick up where you left off at any time and regardless of why you had to leave off. There is even more of the X factor involved here than that, and it needs to be eliminated.

If I want to take a gamble, I will go shoot dice. Probably have better odds of winning a living there anyways. Because let's face it, it is a game and a gamble. No matter what test I can pass - no degree for me. No certification. Nothing. Pay for classes like everyone else///what do you think you are special or something?

yes master.


Considering most "professional" people can not stand people like me, I will never make it there. I literally have to change all of my mannerisms to be around them or they will think I am just a street guy. Truth be told, I do not see why street guys are considered beneath these individuals but that is a whole different discussion.

edit on 23-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)

I couldn't disagree more, mainly because the “rules" won't change -- but I respect your opinion. And hey, if you're happy, you're happy. But I do agree that it depends. It depends on the person and their situation. My main point is that the average citizen is financially better off for their whole life with a college degree.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by capone1

 

You assume talent and/or work ethic = success. You assume too much.

That said, I do like the story as well.

Well, that depends on your definition of success.
This thread is about going to college or not, which is implying financial stability. In this case, talent and/or work ethic are most definitely important. So no, I was not assuming too much.

Talent counts, work ethic not so much. I used to have an amazing work ethic, and it never took me as far as what I am talented at does. Then again, I am not measuring success by how much profit I make.

eta: What does college have to do with financial stability?

edit on 23-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)

Look at the figures I posted on the first page.

reply to post by capone1


You will never be happy if you measure people by their net worth.
The most worthy of your respect are going to be poor most of the time.

Happy? No, but it could be worse. I could be going to Oxford. I could be stuck in the loop that is a materialistic world view. That loop, it is deadly to society. At least I know I am not contributing to that mind frame.

reply to post by capone1


Please tell me, what does the average salary of a college grad have to do with anything? How about the average salary of anyone who ever took out student loans? I bet the #'s change drastically. Of course, you can dismiss their "short-comings" as something you did "better than them".

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by capone1

 

You will never be happy if you measure people by their net worth.
The most worthy of your respect are going to be poor most of the time.

Happy? No, but it could be worse. I could be going to Oxford. I could be stuck in the loop that is a materialistic world view. That loop, it is deadly to society. At least I know I am not contributing to that mind frame.

And I agree with that, but that wasn't my argument. Not every college is ridiculous like Oxford. And hey, if materialistic to you is being able to provide for a family, have a decent car, decent house, then I cant say much more. There are great colleges available for MUCH cheaper. To everybody, don't get too caught up in the “college is a scam" thing. Explain that to 90% of “successful" people who have degrees. Again, it comes down to your own definition of success and happiness.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by capone1

 

Please tell me, what does the average salary of a college grad have to do with anything? How about the average salary of anyone who ever took out student loans? I bet the #'s change drastically. Of course, you can dismiss their "short-comings" as something you did "better than them".

Nope, I don't judge people like that. And the far majority of graduates took out student loans. Like I said, I know middle-aged people who have a great payment plan, and their monthly student debt is 1/4 of their monthly cell phone bill. They are making twice the salary of a non graduate (on average). Make of it what you want.

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by capone1

 

You will never be happy if you measure people by their net worth.
The most worthy of your respect are going to be poor most of the time.

Happy? No, but it could be worse. I could be going to Oxford. I could be stuck in the loop that is a materialistic world view. That loop, it is deadly to society. At least I know I am not contributing to that mind frame.

And I agree with that, but that wasn't my argument. Not every college is ridiculous like Oxford. And hey, if materialistic to you is being able to provide for a family, have a decent car, decent house, then I cant say much more. There are great colleges available for MUCH cheaper. To everybody, don't get too caught up in the “college is a scam" thing. Explain that to 90% of “successful" people who have degrees. Again, it comes down to your own definition of success and happiness.

At what cost does this decent car and house come? Define decent? You really mean in a decent area.
By decent car, you mean 20K or better? Otherwise you won't be needing that degree.

here is the key part. When you graduate they have you by the balls because they know you want your college degree to mean something. They over-work and under pay you. Always. They are looking to make money, not a better world.

College is a scam, and has cost many people their only chance at a happy life. There may be ways to make it less of a scam, but it is still a scam. Pay for propaganda. Your education can be gotten at a library, why is there no test I can take for X degree? They want to see that you will be OBEDIENT and PUNCTUAL.

The 90% of "successful" people who have degrees would have, in many cases but not all, never made it this far on my path, so I do not venerate them.

eta: I should say, the current state of college. It could be a great thing, but changes would need to be made first.

I would love to get an education, but I will not lend myself as an obedient servant to anyone but the Lord.

College is a complete scam btw.... just because you can make money off the scheme does not make it something other than a scheme.

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by capone1

 

Please tell me, what does the average salary of a college grad have to do with anything? How about the average salary of anyone who ever took out student loans? I bet the #'s change drastically. Of course, you can dismiss their "short-comings" as something you did "better than them".

Nope, I don't judge people like that. And the far majority of graduates took out student loans. Like I said, I know middle-aged people who have a great payment plan, and their monthly student debt is 1/4 of their monthly cell phone bill. They are making twice the salary of a non graduate (on average). Make of it what you want.

edit on 23-1-2013 by capone1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-1-2013 by capone1 because: (no reason given)

If you do not judge people like that - why are you conforming to the system? They need you to judge people who are like that or they can not maintain the current state of chaos that is profitable to the few, but not the many.

Instead of telling people to go to college tell them to protest college until it is paid for by the richest people in the country. The money gets right back up to them anyways in the end, in everything we do. Why not have them pay for us to be their drones, if we are willing to be drones?

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by capone1

 

You will never be happy if you measure people by their net worth.
The most worthy of your respect are going to be poor most of the time.

Happy? No, but it could be worse. I could be going to Oxford. I could be stuck in the loop that is a materialistic world view. That loop, it is deadly to society. At least I know I am not contributing to that mind frame.

And I agree with that, but that wasn't my argument. Not every college is ridiculous like Oxford. And hey, if materialistic to you is being able to provide for a family, have a decent car, decent house, then I cant say much more. There are great colleges available for MUCH cheaper. To everybody, don't get too caught up in the “college is a scam" thing. Explain that to 90% of “successful" people who have degrees. Again, it comes down to your own definition of success and happiness.

At what cost does this decent car and house come? Define decent? You really mean in a decent area.
By decent car, you mean 20K or better? Otherwise you won't be needing that degree.

here is the key part. When you graduate they have you by the balls because they know you want your college degree to mean something. They over-work and under pay you. Always. They are looking to make money, not a better world.

College is a scam, and has cost many people their only chance at a happy life. There may be ways to make it less of a scam, but it is still a scam. Pay for propaganda. Your education can be gotten at a library, why is there no test I can take for X degree? They want to see that you will be OBEDIENT and PUNCTUAL.

The 90% of "successful" people who have degrees would have, in many cases but not all, never made it this far on my path, so I do not venerate them.

eta: I should say, the current state of college. It could be a great thing, but changes would need to be made first.

I would love to get an education, but I will not lend myself as an obedient servant to anyone but the Lord.

College is a complete scam btw.... just because you can make money off the scheme does not make it something other than a scheme.

edit on 23-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)

Does the employer paying you 60k/year rather than an employer paying you 20k/year have you by the balls? No.
Like I've been saying throughout my posts, it depends on your own definition of “success" and “decent".
My main point is that in the end, the far majority of people with financial stability (a car, a house, phone, pet(s), family, recreation money) have college degrees. That's all. The factual numbers are there.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by capone1

 

Please tell me, what does the average salary of a college grad have to do with anything? How about the average salary of anyone who ever took out student loans? I bet the #'s change drastically. Of course, you can dismiss their "short-comings" as something you did "better than them".

Nope, I don't judge people like that. And the far majority of graduates took out student loans. Like I said, I know middle-aged people who have a great payment plan, and their monthly student debt is 1/4 of their monthly cell phone bill. They are making twice the salary of a non graduate (on average). Make of it what you want.

edit on 23-1-2013 by capone1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-1-2013 by capone1 because: (no reason given)

If you do not judge people like that - why are you conforming to the system? They need you to judge people who are like that or they can not maintain the current state of chaos that is profitable to the few, but not the many.

Instead of telling people to go to college tell them to protest college until it is paid for by the richest people in the country. The money gets right back up to them anyways in the end, in everything we do. Why not have them pay for us to be their drones, if we are willing to be drones?

*sigh*........I'm “conforming to the system" so I can financially provide for my goals in life. College has never been free. It's all good brother, just different opinions.

reply to post by capone1


It's not all good. You have to demand change or it will not happen. What is the difference between 20 and 60k a year? and yes they have you by the balls. I already explained how and you did not refute that FACT. Yes you have some misconstrued statistics that have been around for ever and beaten into your head since you were 2.

reply to post by capone1


I would rather be homeless than serve the tyrants that control the money in this world. The ones that brainwashed us all from birth. These families have been around for a while now maybe you should look into it? Their tricks haven't much changed either. They seem to have this system locked into peoples minds as acceptable. Well, I guess even a Nazi soldier needs money for car house and all that right?

Your points are invalid you do see that right? We are being fooled. Follow the money, don't listen to illuminati blah blah blah just follow the money. It's some BS where it all ends up.