Oxford sued for wealth discrimination: Applicant can't afford 'luxury lifestyle'

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posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 02:37 PM
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Oxford sued for wealth discrimination: Applicant can't afford 'luxury lifestyle'


rt.com

Damien Shannon, a 26-year-old seeking an MSc in economic and social history, was accepted by St. Hugh’s college. However, he was unable to enroll because he could not provide proof of “sufficient funds,” and is taking Oxford to court over the matter

Shannon claims that the college denied him entry not because he was unable to pay for his tuition or living costs, but because he is not wealthy enough for fancy dining and socializing.
(visit the link for the full news article)


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edit on 21-1-2013 by Agarta because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 02:37 PM
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So Oxford says it has these guidelines in order to ensure the ability to pay for their courses. Apparently Damien Shannon does not meet these requirements in the eyes of St. Hugh’s college. Shannon maintains that his cost of housing is low enough that he indeed can make the required payments but Oxford refuses to admit him for classes.

“Oxford appears to be saying that those who cannot afford to dine within their colleges and socialize are not suitable for admission,” Shannon said, accusing some Oxford staffers of elitism, privilege and exclusivity.


Is this a case of a major University insuring payment or is it indeed a case of elitism at its best?

rt.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 02:49 PM
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I guess he'd have been happier if the University had done what MOST are perfectly happy to do these days. Take his tuition money, humor him for education ..all the while knowing he's unlikely to make it...but leave him feeling hopeful until so totally buried in debt and other issues, the failure is Epic when it comes.

My school makes some interesting decisions too and going into my 4th semester in their college, I've bitched about a few. In a couple cases, I've gotten an answer that would enrage some, I'm sure, but also makes sense. They see enough people come and go by the thousands (by they, I mean general 'Institutional Memory) to know what works, what isn't likely to and what is just NOT happening.

I'd rather they do it this way and just refuse him so he MAY succeed in another school where he won't be outright starving and making excuses for not affording class/lab supplies which can't always be anticipated (Oh...I could write a damn book about the costs you DO NOT get told about up front). Just my take on it as a student myself.

* By the way... When did it EVER become a 'right' to sue over that a PRIVATE institution be forced to accept anyone like this? State schools turn people down for far less ....and the next time a school just refuses to even explain a decision? Think back here. There are reasons and it's not that they want to be so vague and unhelpful, IMO.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 02:55 PM
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Who cares? It's all a scam anyway to get you into to debt before you even have a job to pay it back. Even more so now with college grads ending up working at walmart. Be your own man and stop thinking that playing by the rules is going to get you ahead in life.

Sheep need direction thus why the scam is so successful.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 03:01 PM
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I kind of am leaning towards siding with the kid on this one. If you can pay the tuition and fees and have been admitted as a student, then nothing else should matter. Having to prove sufficient funds for X, Y, and Z absolutely is elitism and discrimination.

On the other hand, if Oxford is a private college, then I support their right to discriminate in this manner.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck
 


I would agree, if the private college knows that he may not be able to afford it by looking at his financial records then they have that right.

I would love to see this outcome of this in the future.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by Heisenberg59
Who cares? It's all a scam anyway to get you into to debt before you even have a job to pay it back. Even more so now with college grads ending up working at walmart. Be your own man and stop thinking that playing by the rules is going to get you ahead in life.

Sheep need direction thus why the scam is so successful.


High school drop outs: $18,734
High school graduates: $27,915
College grads (with a bachelor’s degree): $51,206
Advanced degree holders: $74,602

howtoedu.org...



Non-degree holders could expect a lifetime average of $1.2 million, while those with a bachelor's degree could expect to earn $2.1 million, or nearly double (www.eric.ed.gov).



Immediate debt? Sure. But it IS worth it to get your degree. I feel the key is choosing a college that isn't stupidly expensive. There are some great colleges that offer minimal costs compared to more expensive schools.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by capone1
 



It isn’t just about skill level or talent, after all. Having a degree tells employers not just that you are prepared for the job education-wise, but also that…


This is the real problem with those statistics. The market has become as such that if you didn't go into Government debt, you're obviously not prepared for a job. I'd personally rather live in a trash can than slave my life away to buy some greedy corporate CEO another yacht.

Gone are the days that you worked for yourself. That self worth was based on providing for yourself and family. Now if you don't own a 52 inch TV or don't have the latest iphone, for some reason, you're just "not prepared for a job".

How about, screw the system? How about, I'll live my life without your slave made trinkets from China? How about, working for yourself is more self fulfilling than slaving your life away until you're too old, deaf, blind and dumb to enjoy your "golden years"?

Besides, that "study" doesn't even say when it was written or for how long those "grads" end up working at some dead beat job waiting for some opportunity to slap them in the face.

Enjoy the rat race.
edit on 21-1-2013 by Heisenberg59 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 04:34 PM
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It sounds like Damien Shannon ("a 26-year-old seeking an MSc in economic and social history") has an axe to grind about (ah, diddums) having to shell out to further his education.

People tend to cry out at the Oxbridge universities for being elitist, but that’s bollocks. Oxbridge and other universities are where they are because they have the money from fees and because they churn out exceptional talent. They churn out exceptional talent because they take in high achievers.

Damien Shannon should find a university which best suits his expectations, but then he probably wants Oxford on his CV. He's just discovered he cannot afford – or does not want to pay – the fees. If he cannot make it, then there’s plenty waiting in the queue.

We are breeding a nation of complainers and whiners. Too many spoilt people who think the world owes them.

Oh, and don’t forget the OP uses RT so ‘nuff said.

Regards



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 05:17 PM
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I won a scholarship to attend a semester at Oxford. Coming from a private college in Tennessee, this was a big deal in my life.

I was surprised by a lot of the differences in our societies, of course. But one thing that surprised me e most was how the students dined at the college.

Back in TN, we had a casual, cafeteria styled dining hall. You went through the line, got your food, picked a seat, and chewed down.

It was very different at Oxford. We were asked to dress nicely (not fancy, just not grunge). We all set together at a LNG table, resplendent with snowy linens and lots of specialized silverware. We were served our meals by men dressed handsomely in black, and the whole experience felt like a fine dining experience.

I really felt out of place during meal times, but otherwise loved the atmosphere.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 05:22 PM
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Oxford policy requires that every student pay 12,900 pounds (approximately $20,000) a year for living expenses. That sum is comprised of average rent costs, utilities, food allowances and other expenses.

In a blog post republished by the Guardian, Shannon – who did not have enough money to meet the college's living expenses requirement – said he was ready to provide the admissions office with information showing that his rent is below average, and that he therefore has sufficient funds. However, his application was still denied.


I'd need a little more information to form an opinion. It's obvious he didn't show that he could not meet their requirements for living expenses... but by how much and how much below average was his rent? Did he have any money in the bank at all?



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Heisenberg59
reply to post by capone1
 



It isn’t just about skill level or talent, after all. Having a degree tells employers not just that you are prepared for the job education-wise, but also that…


This is the real problem with those statistics. The market has become as such that if you didn't go into Government debt, you're obviously not prepared for a job. I'd personally rather live in a trash can than slave my life away to buy some greedy corporate CEO another yacht.

Gone are the days that you worked for yourself. That self worth was based on providing for yourself and family. Now if you don't own a 52 inch TV or don't have the latest iphone, for some reason, you're just "not prepared for a job".

How about, screw the system? How about, I'll live my life without your slave made trinkets from China? How about, working for yourself is more self fulfilling than slaving your life away until you're too old, deaf, blind and dumb to enjoy your "golden years"?

Besides, that "study" doesn't even say when it was written or for how long those "grads" end up working at some dead beat job waiting for some opportunity to slap them in the face.

Enjoy the rat race.
edit on 21-1-2013 by Heisenberg59 because: (no reason given)


That's a nice utopian thought, but for the good majority that's not how America works.
Like the other poster stated, and whether you hate it or not, employers like college graduates because it shows 4 years of dedication beyond high school. You may be more talented in a given field than the guy who got the job, but he had the degree. My uncle is one of the greatest at what he does in my state, (project management for a big grocery coporation) he has 20+ years of experience and puts up great numbers. He was interviewed along with 1 other guy for an executive managerial position, but they said he wouldn't get the promotion because he doesn't have a college degree. This is pretty common among companies.
edit on 21-1-2013 by capone1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by Agarta
 


I like the idea, but college is nothing more that a state revenue system. To help further suck the middle class dry. I wish I could give my degree back and get a refund! They are quick to give you that worthless piece of paper. Good luck on trying to give it back for the money you spent on it.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 05:35 PM
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Kind of ironic that in order to live that luxury lifestyle you must go to school, but that this school in particular won't even support you unless you're already living that lifestyle.

Stupid, education should be open...



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 05:45 PM
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I'm wondering if Oxford's argument would be that paying the school fee's without being able to show he could cover living expenses would make him "school poor". Essentially he would be living in a trash can while attending Oxford (or so they think).




It was very different at Oxford. We were asked to dress nicely (not fancy, just not grunge). We all set together at a LNG table, resplendent with snowy linens and lots of specialized silverware. We were served our meals by men dressed handsomely in black, and the whole experience felt like a fine dining experience.


Really? They would hate me. I always bring my lunch to control the calorie count. I would probably get kicked out for burping at the table.
edit on 21-1-2013 by antonia because: added a thought



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by yourmaker
Kind of ironic that in order to live that luxury lifestyle you must go to school, but that this school in particular won't even support you unless you're already living that lifestyle.


It's not really irony when it is purposefully set up that way.

"The get richer while the poor get poorer".



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 06:27 PM
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He's better off if he doesn't socialise with the "toffs" anyway.

Hooray Henrys and Henriettas are the parasites of society (worldwide) and Oxford has a lot to answer for in their traditional rich gets richer education system.

Elitist to the core. Good luck to him whatever he does.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by Heisenberg59
Who cares? It's all a scam anyway to get you into to debt before you even have a job to pay it back. Even more so now with college grads ending up working at walmart. Be your own man and stop thinking that playing by the rules is going to get you ahead in life.

Sheep need direction thus why the scam is so successful.


High school drop outs: $18,734
High school graduates: $27,915
College grads (with a bachelor’s degree): $51,206
Advanced degree holders: $74,602

howtoedu.org...



Non-degree holders could expect a lifetime average of $1.2 million, while those with a bachelor's degree could expect to earn $2.1 million, or nearly double (www.eric.ed.gov).




That is accurate, but also based on a different economy than we currently have. In the current economy with an increasing number of college graduates moving back home because there isn't any work related to their degree available, or because they took any job they could with an increasing number only making $10-12 per hour, those numbers are changing and will continue to change, and not for the better.

Simply posting those numbers is a quite a shallow and elementary way to look at this problem. Doesn't even take into account the price of tuition increasing through the roof while the numbers of jobs available to graduates continue to get slashed.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 07:20 PM
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The truth of the matter is, that to even be able to afford to go ahead and go to university, there are an awful lot of financial outlays that are involved, leave alone the fees. One would have to be lucky enough to be able to afford accommodation, assuming that the university which offers the course you wish to take is far enough away from your home that it is necessary.

Then there is the subsitance whilst one is there. That is to say, that to be able to stay on top of any serious undertaking, one must eat, remain clean and healthy, and be able to have the space to achieve these things in relative peace. Bear in mind that in a swanky place like Oxford, despite its long history as a university, commands serious rental prices. Now, even student accommodation can cost as much as £540 a month, based on a weekly cost of one hundred and thirty five pounds per week. Lets call it six thousand four hundred and eighty pounds a year.

Now, this may, to some, seem a pretty reasonable sum, but for many people such a sum on top of the fees, and the subsitance costs it will be crippling. Dont forget that without considerable expirience, one is often unable to aquire work that will pay ANYTHING like enough to actually live on. Meanwhile, the cost of living keeps rising, and that DOES actually apply to students. They eat, need shelter, require to clothe themselves, and interact socially, not to mention one of the other big outlays that come up when one undertakes to aquire a good education.

The cost of books is going up, and since text books, and reference materials are essential tools for a student, doing without them is utterly unthinkable. Oh sure, one could download them to ones swanky electronic portable computer, but at the end of the day, those things dont come in cheap either, and relying on one device to store all your reference material is pretty much the most idiotic thing one could possibly do.

Think about all that, and you are talking about thousands per year before you even get to the whole, fees issue.
I personally think that it is time that the government, and the universities that offer the higher education, realise that if they want to APPEAR to be inclusive and fair, then they must BE inclusive and fair. It cannot appear, or be such a thing, unless all the barriers that remain between the less fortunate students, and a positive expirience in higher education, are removed. The fees are a joke, the cost of material too high, the cost of living too great at the moment, for any but the most forunate to approach these things with confidence and peace of mind.

Personally speaking, I never attained a higher level of education. After twelve years of state education, which for me felt more like a tour of duty than a pure learning expirience, I managed to come away with my basic education intact, despite the difficulties presented by having spent my days learning to avoid knife blows, fists, feet, headbutts and other methods of serious assault, which were often directed toward my person. After that, I felt in need of a well earned rest, and the LAST thing I felt I needed at that point was to go and bankrupt my family by attempting to continue my education. There had been, by that point, quite enough drama.

If I had thought that the only difficulty presented by the possibility of a university education, had been one of having enough intellect to absorb lectures, new ideas and concepts, and take part in research, sink myself into the lapping waters of all human understanding and emerge transformed by them, then I would have been all over that like flies on a rotting carcass. And thats the only question that ought to require an answer when considering a scholarly life, and because that is not the case, this nation stands not just to loose, but worse, to waste great minds, by preventing those who possess them from attaining the highest quality of education.

This nation ought to make a much better care of its intellectual resources, because if ever we needed minds of great power, it is now, when Europe seems so close to catastrophic break up, when the economy is allegedly tripple dipping, and when this nation is producing so little in comparison with others.

The circumstances which prevail at this time, which leave things in such a state as to require legal action of the nature described in the article, are a joke, but the punchline will not be a masterclass in comedy when it comes.



posted on Jan, 21 2013 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by Agarta
 


Good for them, they dodged a bullet. They would have hated it there.





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