The titles of Allah and the Bible.

reply to post by logical7

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
God can do anything. Separate and yet still together.

The angels from heaven worshipped Jesus because they knew He was God Incarnate.
Jesus Himself said He came down from Heaven and He claimed the name .. 'I AM'.

Jesus = fully God and fully human. God Incarnate.
He said so. He provided miracles to give proof behind his claim.
(unlike Muhammad who just made wild claims and provided no proof to back them)

I know ... I know ... the Muslims can't stand the fact that Jesus is God Incarnate and they try REALLY HARD to deny it and to try to get Christians to deny it. They do this because, with Jesus being God Incarnate, it totally destroys any credibility that Islam has. That's why Muhammad had to deny the divinity of Jesus and that's why he made up all the bogus stories about Jesus .... he had to try to destroy who Jesus is in order to get the peasants to buy into Islam.

Originally posted by logical7
what about the "comforter" being the next prophet

The Holy Spirit ... not a human prophet.
God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.

JESUS words - John 14-16 Hebrews 3 & 10
All show that the comforter is THE HOLY SPIRIT and not a flesh and blood human.

Muslims try to get people to think that this is Muhammad being talked about.
That's like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
It is obviously not the case.

John 14:26 - But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Jesus is VERY clear ... HOLY SPIRIT ... not human Muhammad.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I can go on and on and show how Jesus made it clear that God was a separate entity.

I can go on and on and show how Jesus is fully man AND fully God.

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Trinity. Separate and yet One God.

It's not that difficult to understand .. if you really wanted to ...
Like the clover leaf ... one leaf and yet three different leaves.

The angels in heaven worshipped Jesus.
Jesus Himself said He came down from Heaven.
Jesus Himself claimed the name "I AM'.

Jesus = God Incarnate.
Obviously Muhammads supposed 'visions' are dead wrong.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

He made it clear that the Father was a separate entity.

what is your explanation for "the Word WAS God" in John 1:1?

The Word (Jesus) was with God. And The Word (Jesus) was God.
They are separate and yet together.
The ol' St. Patrick explaination is best ... the cloverleaf ...
One leaf and yet three separate leaves.

Originally posted by logical7

what came upon Mary and later she concieved and what descended on Jesus pbuh like a dove?
EDIT: i read you edit and had to edit, yes do research it and what about the "comforter" being the next prophet.

edit on 22-1-2013 by logical7 because: (no reason given)

Yes, the Holy Spirit came to Mary in order that she would conceive Jesus.

As for the Holy Spirit making an appearance at Jesus' baptism, it looks like either heaven parted for a moment or they were given a "vision" in order to bear witness of how God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit were related.

Mark 1:10

10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

John 1:50-51

50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.

51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Acts 1:21-22

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

The "Comforter" is Jesus/Holy Spirit.

John 14:16-19

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I'm going to throw in some more and these aren't even the ones that show that God AND the Lamb share the throne of heaven...

Revelation 22:13-16

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

reply to post by Deetermined


reply to post by Deetermined

Yes, the Holy Spirit came to Mary in order that she would conceive Jesus.

As for the Holy Spirit making an appearance at Jesus\' baptism, it looks like either heaven parted for a moment or they were given a \"vision\" in order to bearwitness of how God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit were related.

if \"it looks like\" that then it must be true!! I dont want your personal justifications.
So Holy Spirit was able to get on earth?

Originally posted by logical7
So Holy Spirit was able to get on earth?

The Holy Spirit is God. God can do whatever He wants.
He is very active on Earth ... IN SPIRIT FORM .. He's not flesh and blood.

John 1:33 - I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26 - But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Luke 1:35 - The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

Acts 2:4 - All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Acts 13:52 - And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.

etc etc etc etc

reply to post by FlyersFan

The Holy Spirit is God. God can do
whatever He wants.

well thats end of discussion. Cant disagree to that!!
But a new question. Jesus pbuh said blasphemy against the son of man can be forgiven but never against Holy Spirit. Right?
So what exactly comes under blasphemy?

Originally posted by logical7
Jesus pbuh said blasphemy against the son of man can be forgiven but never against Holy Spirit. Right?
So what exactly comes under blasphemy?

I'd think that's a question for a new thread for you to start.
There are different opinions ...

Catholic Forums

A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture explains, “Unlike other blasphemies or sins which might be partially excused by ignorance, passion or inadvertence, this was[/is] a sin of willful malice and blindness to the light. As long as such a mentality persists, pardon is impossible, not because of any limitation of God, but because those who are guilty of this sin refuse to respond to the promptings of grace” (p.912).

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) states, “There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss” (CCC 1864).

So if you are told the truth about God .. and you know it's the truth .. but you reject it even though you know it's true .. that's unforgiveable.

Unforgivable Sin

All sins are forgivable with repentance. The “unforgivable sin”(Matthew 12:31-32) of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is a sin committed by one who knowingly and willingly rejects the grace of conversion in this life. If one dies in this self-imposed state of unrepentance, he cannot be saved.

“Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, then, is the sin committed by the person who claims to have a "right" to persist in evil—in any sin at all—and who thus rejects Redemption. ...

So if you reject the conversion and sanctification offered by The Holy Spirit, then that's unforgivable and you send yourself to Hell.

Unforgivable Sin

Does Hebrews 10:26-27 speak of another unforgivable sin?

The only sin that is unforgivable is that which is never repented of – that which one never sincerely seeks forgiveness for. This passage in Hebrews defines mortal sin which, if left un-repented, results in the loss of salvation.

Mortal sin requires grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent (cf. Catechism, 1857). Notice that the author of Hebrews speaks of sinning willfully (deliberate consent) after receiving knowledge of the truth. He goes on (v. 29) to describe the grave matter of which he is writing: spurning the Son of God, profaning the blood of the covenant, and outraging the Spirit of grace. These sins committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent are mortal sins and they will result in the loss of salvation if left un-repented.

These protestants say that the unforgivable sin is rejection of Christ because the Holy Spirit witness' to the truth of Christ ... etc etc
This Protestant site pretty much agrees - the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to reject the Holy Spirit sanctification that can take place in your soul. etc etc

The Catholics and Protestants pretty much agree .. but use different words ...

reply to post by FlyersFan


That's not what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is. Jesus explained exactly what the sin was in the narrative.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Allah isn't in the bible .

Allah is the God of the Bible.

Wrong!

The God of the Bible is revealed as One Divine Essence we call Deity, in Three Distinct Personas; The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Also, Christ Jesus is revealed as fully Divine and fully Human.

The god of Islam cannot be the same God as the God of the Bible because Islam rejects the Deity of Christ, and that the God of the Bible is revealed in Three Distinct Personas; Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Or Allahs titles wouldn't be matching the accounts of the Biblical God... as I've shown in the OP.

That is because Mohammed borrowed heavily from the Bible when he was composing the Koran.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Like I said there are different opinions ... and it's a subject for a different thread I'd think ....

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp


You should read the Qu'ran.. JuniorBeauchamp. The only thing different might be the name.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Like I said there are different opinions ... and it's a subject for a different thread I'd think ....

There's always a thousand and one opinions, that's why I don't concern myself with them. I just simply rely on what Christ said. His explanation of the sin carries the most weight with me.

Originally posted by Angle
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

 

You should read the Qu'ran.. JuniorBeauchamp. The only thing different might be the name

Have YOU read the Qu'ran and the bible? Obviously the 'god' of the Qu'ran and the God in the bible are two different things. Obviously Muhammad plaigarized from the Jews and Christians, including titles for God, in order to try to give credibility to his newly invented religion.

Christians have Jesus who is God Incarnate and base this on first hand accounts and historical documents from the time of Jesus life. Muslims reject the Christian God and base that rejection on stories about Jesus that were fabricated 600+ years after Jesus was alive. Therefore ... they are NOT the same God no matter how much Muslim apologists try to make it sound like they are.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Angle
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

 

You should read the Qu'ran.. JuniorBeauchamp. The only thing different might be the name

Have YOU read the Qu'ran and the bible? Obviously the 'god' of the Qu'ran and the God in the bible are two different things. Obviously Muhammad plaigarized from the Jews and Christians, including titles for God, in order to try to give credibility to his newly invented religion.

Christians have Jesus who is God Incarnate and base this on first hand accounts and historical documents from the time of Jesus life. Muslims reject the Christian God and base that rejection on stories about Jesus that were fabricated 600+ years after Jesus was alive. Therefore ... they are NOT the same God no matter how much Muslim apologists try to make it sound like they are.

maybe you mean, you will NOT believe that we have the same One God no matter how much proofs are given to you. Right?
Ok tell me,
what was the religion of Adam, Noah and Abraham (peace be upon them) also which God they worshipped.
A more simpler Question, are you and me created by the same God?

Originally posted by logical7
maybe you mean, you will NOT believe that we have the same One God no matter how much proofs are given to you. Right?

maybe you mean, you will NOT believe that Islam and Christianity have different gods no matter how much proofs are given to you. Right? The proofs have been given over and over and over .... Christians worship a Trinity God ... Muslims do not. Show me a Muslim kneeling and worshipping Jesus as God, as scripture says the angels did, and I'll show you a Muslim who worships the same God as Christians.

what was the religion of Adam, Noah and Abraham (peace be upon them) also which God they worshipped.

- Adam didn't exist. It's a creation myth.
- Noah didn't exist. That's a summerian flood story that was re-written and claimed by the Jews as their own.
- Abraham, who was insane and tried to murder his child, worshipped the Jewish god - not the Trinity God of Christians. (obviously .. the Trinity hadn't been revealed yet)

are you and me created by the same God?

Sure. It is clear that JESUS, Who is God and part of the Trinity, Who created both of us ...

Colossians 1:16 - For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

John 1:3 - Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Jesus .. Who said He came down from Heaven .. Who claimed the title 'I AM' ... created you.

reply to post by FlyersFan


what i get from your post is, that jews and muslims have the same God. Also Jesus pbuh worshipped the same God(cant worship himself right?) he was a jew and followed and obeyed the commands/laws of the Same God(to free the christians from the law as i have been told)
so i conclude that we muslims worship The Father.
Jesus pbuh wouldnt mind that we loved him as Christ but dint acknowledge him as god or that we carry our own cross and not dump our sins on him.
What do you say?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


you're confused boy...read more and post less