US gun debate: Obama unveils gun control proposals

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posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter
 


No I'm not an Obama supporter. He is asking Congress to put forward some legislation on assault weapons, he can't write the legislation and Congress is under no obligation to do as he asks. Can you tell me what you disagree with that I said in my post?




posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


I don't really see that way, I see that he tweaked existing laws for the most part, and closing background check loopholes is something I fully support. What I'm concerned about is how they are going to define and scale mental health issues.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by Krakatoa
 


weapons used in civil war reenactment are not subject to federal gun laws as replica and antique weapons are exmempt from federal gun laws (unless its a cannon that shoots explosive projectiles) but black powder weapons require no background check and can be shipped directly to your door so i dont see them being effected by any kind of laws in the near future



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by beezzer
 


I don't really see that way, I see that he tweaked existing laws for the most part, and closing background check loopholes is something I fully support. What I'm concerned about is how they are going to define and scale mental health issues.


A huge topic!!!

My circle of friends are mostly vets or active duty. Many have had TBI's or PTSD.

With the presidential violation of HIPAA, our private conversations with our docs are no longer private.

WTF??

Ironic in that the one group of people whom I would trust with firearms would not be allowed any.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by xedocodex
 


i have a mental illness and i am not prohibited from owning guns as i have not been institutionalized against my will or been labeled a danger to my self or others not every one with mental illness is some lunatic out to kill little children.most people with mental illness were BORN with it or in some cases it develops later in life (18-26) so you are advocating the complete disarmament of a protected class of citizen(under federal law) solely for something they were born with and often have no say over?

dont get me wrong i dont think every "crazy" person as you put it should own a gun but to label an entire section of society based on the actions of a few is lunacy and quite a dangerous slope to go down especially with how easily they are classifying mental illness these days. ptsd,add/adhd,depression,post pardumdepression etc,hell in theory believers of conspiracy theories could be labeled as such along with chemtrailers moon hoaxers and alien believers so be careful on this path to vilify those with "mental illness"



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 04:57 PM
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Well played with the children Barrack, Goebels would be proud....




posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by Kali74



5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.


Would there be a basis to not return a gun other than said person was already not allowed to own a gun? Or would LE have grounds to withold an individuals legally owned gun at their discretion?


Secondary transfers...Private sales..straw purchases...gun-show loop-hole etc.

The idea being that many gun owners did not buy from a liscensed fire-arms dealer that conducted a background check. If the gun is siezed during an investigation, they would be authorized to run a background check prior to returning it. A gun is among things...property, so no it they could not keep it at thier discretion, property laws remain intact. they would need to fail a background check identical to the ones that fire-arm dealers run in order for LE to withold the gun.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
My circle of friends are mostly vets or active duty. Many have had TBI's or PTSD.


This is why I hate going to the doctors now. The initial intake always asks if you've ever had a head injury and to list and describe it. Did you lose consciousness? Which time?

I always put yes - you don't have enough paper in the office for me to list the dates and circumstances...

I will be sad when my 80 year old country doctor retires – he is simply worried about what matters.

As for PTSD - there are various degrees. I have a mild form, no meds etc... But sometimes I have bad dreams that keep me awake. I have a CCW and I know for a fact I have more firearms training than and LEO within my county if not the State.

I can only imagine what they will consider mental illness. My guess is fear/mistrust of the government will be right up there.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 05:04 PM
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I wonder if LEOs who are seeking psych treatment fall under the new rules...take the weapons from the insane cops



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by RalagaNarHallas
reply to post by xedocodex
 


i have a mental illness and i am not prohibited from owning guns as i have not been institutionalized against my will or been labeled a danger to my self or others not every one with mental illness is some lunatic out to kill little children.most people with mental illness were BORN with it or in some cases it develops later in life (18-26) so you are advocating the complete disarmament of a protected class of citizen(under federal law) solely for something they were born with and often have no say over?

dont get me wrong i dont think every "crazy" person as you put it should own a gun but to label an entire section of society based on the actions of a few is lunacy and quite a dangerous slope to go down especially with how easily they are classifying mental illness these days. ptsd,add/adhd,depression,post pardumdepression etc,hell in theory believers of conspiracy theories could be labeled as such along with chemtrailers moon hoaxers and alien believers so be careful on this path to vilify those with "mental illness"


I'll let the psychologists decide who they believe is mentally fit to own a gun and who is not.

I personally think that anyone on any mind altering medication should not own a gun. Even if the medication works as intended, we all know that when someone stops taking those meds suddenly, bad things can happen...which is why they slowly take you off those meds, not just cold turkey.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 05:07 PM
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People who buy 'hot' weapons, will continue to buy them regardless of whether the good citizens are disarmed or not. Can you imagine the Mexico border in a year from now? Or the family farms that have been forced to protect their lands for the past couple decades? How much money will pass hands when assault weapons are outlawed?

All the supposed American firearms will come back in at 10 times the cost they were sold. Only the criminals will own them.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by RalagaNarHallas
 


Well you will be now. The laws are changing to allow stricter and deeper back ground checks. They will work hand in hand with health care institutions. In order to get a check, you'll have to turn it in.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by Golf66
Well played with the children Barrack, Goebels would be proud....














Progressive liberals need to ask themselves is it alright to use propaganda like this? You are being played for a fool and historians will look back and chuckle about how gullible you are. They are using your worst fears and turning them into political sway.



Progressives also need to ask themselves what happens when your guy is out of power and the new guy who might not be liberal uses the same tactics to sway the other flock of sheep. Remember how many of you were against the wars until your guy gained power and then you just accepted it. The patriot act remember that one.






Progressives are you all really this weak? Conservatives are jumping ship in large numbers are they seeing the truth more clearly then you?
edit on 16-1-2013 by SubTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by xedocodex
 


but by doing that you would create what is refereed to as stigma in the mental health community where as if they knew they would loose their gun ownership rights if they went on medication they would not seek out medication and thus those that COULD benefit from medication will not seek it out out of fear.And not every person with a mental illness takes medication(i don't anyways)

on to the psychologist issue i had a dr who i will not name but he worked for kaiser try to make it so i could not own guns because he through all guns were bad,because of this man i had to waste time and effort getting documented proof of my sanity and switch drs just to gaurentee my rights were not violated by some one who had an agenda and just did not like guns or think ANY one should own them so there lies the danger of giving them carte Blanche to decide such things based on their own opinions and belief systems



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by antar
 


again no i wont the way federal gun laws work is you cant be a danger to your self or others or have been committed to an mental institution,i used to WORK in a mental institution was never sent to one so no i will not have to turn in any guns as i have violated no laws. having a mental illness does not disqualify you from gun ownership even under the presidents new laws nothing is said directly that says if you suffer from one that you cant own a gun

and as the last records i got from a dr states that i am of sane body and mind and not a threat to my self or others and have not been back to a dr since for mental health services what records will they use against me the ones that say im sane? i have not been to a dr in 5 years and have since switched health care providers and have not received any mental health services in years as i manage my own illness by eating right exercising and sleeping well so im not worried about being disqualified for taking med's either as i have not taken those in years as well
edit on 16-1-2013 by RalagaNarHallas because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by Golf66
Well played with the children Barrack, Goebels would be proud....






And I'm sure you think the same of the NRA who are also using children to try to bolster their argument.

For some reason, I don't think you hold them to the same standard.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by RalagaNarHallas
 


If you are suggesting gun owners would put their precious guns above their own mental health, then I think you just proved that they aren't fit to own guns.

Just like in many other cases involving mental health issues in someone, we will have to rely on their loved ones to notify health proffesionals if they think someone needs help.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 05:25 PM
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Maybe instead of focusing on punishing law abiding citizens, they should teach these killers how to read signs. You know, such as gun free zone. That is such the deterrent. Next, they will try to ban sporks, knives, boat paddles, bats, hammers and spatulas.
www.youtube.com... .1.Lzh3fYmimLU
edit on 16-1-2013 by willzilla because: (no reason given)
edit on 16-1-2013 by willzilla because: reasons



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by xedocodex
I personally think that anyone on any mind altering medication should not own a gun. Even if the medication works as intended, we all know that when someone stops taking those meds suddenly, bad things can happen...which is why they slowly take you off those meds, not just cold turkey.


Almost every medication and a good number of chemicals people regularly consume (caffeine, nicotine etc.) effect the mind in some way.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by xedocodex
 


i didnt say that i said some members of the mental health community would get stigma from such actions but i know for a fact if i ever talk to a dr again i wont mention guns or anything of the like to protect my rights nothing in current law or proposed law states that you have to tell the truth to your doctor.

so it just goes to show that these "acts" for more stringent mental health checks wont work as the seriously mentally ill wont go and if they do they certainly wont talk about their urges for fear of being locked up so in my opinion all these will do is push people further away from mental health services at least the ones that would benefit from such measures






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