a former Evangelical "born again" explains why Protestantism isn't true

Originally posted by colbe

The faith, Roman Catholicism which is Apostolic, that gave you your Bible truejew says God is Trinitarian, one God in three divine persons, always was, always will be.

To be Apostolic, you must follow what the apostles taught. The apostles never called God a trinity and never used the words "three divine persons" to describe God. You are not Apostolic. You are papalholic.

Originally posted by colbe

You got your "Pentecostal Oneness" from a mistaken preacher named Reckart not the Apostles.

That is clearly false and shows your lack of fruit of the Spirit. How could Tertullian write against it around 200AD and claim that the majority of believers were oneness if it did not exist until Pastor Reckart?

Originally posted by colbe

I'll stick to three sentences, I hope not, you will still find away to section them off too so you can say more, take out of context, distort.

I do nothing like that.

2 Timothy 3:1-7 (KJV)
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Colbe posted that there will be Holy Mass in heaven and that everyone will be Roman Catholic.

That is theologically incorrect and is NOT in accord with Catholic teaching.
The Mass will only take place until Jesus returns. After that, there is no need.
The Mass is based on faith. There is no 'faith' in heaven.
No 'Catholic' faith either. Faith is gone.
The Beatific Vision does away with the need for 'faith'.
Faith is the anticipation of what will come. The Beatific Vision is there. No more anticipation.
Therefore, there will be no Catholics (or Baptists or Lutherans or ____ ) in heaven.
There will only be people with fulfilled faith in God.

Catholic Catechism on the Holy Mass

1340 By celebrating the Last Supper with his apostles in the course of the Passover meal, Jesus gave the Jewish Passover its definitive meaning. Jesus' passing over to his father by his death and Resurrection, the new Passover, is anticipated in the Supper and celebrated in the Eucharist, which fulfills the Jewish Passover and anticipates the final Passover of the Church in the glory of the kingdom.

"Do this in memory of me"

1341 The command of Jesus to repeat his actions and words "until he comes" does not only ask us to remember Jesus and what he did. It is directed at the liturgical celebration, by the apostles and their successors, of the memorial of Christ, of his life, of his death, of his Resurrection, and of his intercession in the presence of the Father.167 ...

1343 It was above all on "the first day of the week," Sunday, the day of Jesus' resurrection, that the Christians met "to break bread."169 From that time on down to our own day the celebration of the Eucharist has been continued so that today we encounter it everywhere in the Church with the same fundamental structure. It remains the center of the Church's life.

1344 Thus from celebration to celebration, as they proclaim the Paschal mystery of Jesus "until he comes," the pilgrim People of God advances, "following the narrow way of the cross,"170 toward the heavenly banquet, when all the elect will be seated at the table of the kingdom.

Heaven is the fulfillment of the Mass.
- Read St. Thomas Aquinas.

The Eucharist is the sacrifice of the Church.
There is no need for sacrifice once the sheep and the goats have been separated.

The Eucharist is a sacrament.
There are no sacraments in heaven. Sacraments are for a temporal framework.

The Eucharist is a veil for us to receive Christ.
In heaven, we will be in constant communion with the Savior, and through him, the Trinity, without any veil.

The Eucharist is a sacrifice in a temporal framework.
There are no sacrifices in heaven. Heaven is the consummation of all sacrifices, hope and faith.
Sacrifice belongs to the period of faith and hope - earth.
In heaven .. no faith. No hope. The reality of the Beatific Vision takes those away.

And some deeper theology -
The sacrifice of The Lamb in the liturgy will be made obsolete by the heavenly nuptials of the Lamb.

This is what the Catholic Church teaches about it's own Holy Mass. And according to the Catholic faith, ALL GOOD CATHOLICS MUST BELIEVE THIS AS WELL. Scripture reference - Jesus speaking to Peter whom He just made head of His church on Earth - "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." .... So the Church has officially and repeatedly pronounced that there is NO MASS and NO FAITH in Heaven. There is no need.

reply to post by colbe


Thanks for the clarification, and I believe that we should all just believe in God!
Bless you colbe

Originally posted by rigel4
reply to post by colbe

 

Thanks for the clarification, and I believe that we should all just believe in God!
Bless you colbe

Thank you rige14,

I don't know why God put us in this time but less death we're all going to see a major spiritual change. God is going to bring it about.

I was listening to a priest's homily on the radio this morning. He spoke about the unity of faith. It makes sense, Jesus is not two people or three. There aren't 2 Sacraments instituted by Christ. There are 7 Sacraments. And on and on. It is not fine with Him the awful division in Christianity. God wants everyone to believe the same.

Today, there was short Word given a PROTESTANT messenger. The "divine silence" is the Great Warning and as Protestants hear it, the "awakening" in their messages. Everyone, non-Christians too, God is going to show us all. And then it will be our choice to say yes or no to what we have been shown.

It has to be an excerpt so I'll lose a sentence.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

BRADY MATHIS
Kremmling, Colorado


February 4, 2013

As My Spirit was brooding over the waters to bring a separation between light and darkness in the beginning of creation so now is He brooding over the peoples of earth to call out from among them those who will choose light. You must allow Me exist in you and to carry out this operation moment by moment in your thoughts and choices. I will bring that separation between truth and error in your heart and mind, but it is up to you to make choices and gain understanding. I am creating a space in time of divine silence in which you can see and hear more clearly in order to understand how the enemy exploits your weaknesses so you can defeat him by My Spirit. I would have you develop an awareness of My Spirit in you to such an extent that you feel like a man awakened from sleep. .....

ft111.com...

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Colbe posted that there will be Holy Mass in heaven and that everyone will be Roman Catholic.
That is theologically incorrect and is NOT in accord with Catholic teaching. The Mass will only take place until Jesus returns. After that, there is no need. The Mass is based on faith. There is no 'faith' in heaven. No 'Catholic' faith either. Faith is gone. The Beatific Vision does away with the need for 'faith'. Faith is the anticipation of what will come. The Beatific Vision is there. No more anticipation. Therefore, there will be no Catholics (or Baptists or Lutherans or ____ ) in heaven. There will only be people with fulfilled faith in God.

Catholic Catechism on the Holy Mass

1340 By celebrating the Last Supper with his apostles in the course of the Passover meal, Jesus gave the Jewish Passover its definitive meaning. Jesus' passing over to his father by his death and Resurrection, the new Passover, is anticipated in the Supper and celebrated in the Eucharist, which fulfills the Jewish Passover and anticipates the final Passover of the Church in the glory of the kingdom.

"Do this in memory of me"

1341 The command of Jesus to repeat his actions and words "until he comes" does not only ask us to remember Jesus and what he did. It is directed at the liturgical celebration, by the apostles and their successors, of the memorial of Christ, of his life, of his death, of his Resurrection, and of his intercession in the presence of the Father.167 ...

1343 It was above all on "the first day of the week," Sunday, the day of Jesus' resurrection, that the Christians met "to break bread."169 From that time on down to our own day the celebration of the Eucharist has been continued so that today we encounter it everywhere in the Church with the same fundamental structure. It remains the center of the Church's life.

1344 Thus from celebration to celebration, as they proclaim the Paschal mystery of Jesus "until he comes," the pilgrim People of God advances, "following the narrow way of the cross,"170 toward the heavenly banquet, when all the elect will be seated at the table of the kingdom.

Heaven is the fulfillment of the Mass.
- Read St. Thomas Aquinas.

The Eucharist is the sacrifice of the Church.
There is no need for sacrifice once the sheep and the goats have been separated.

The Eucharist is a sacrament.
There are no sacraments in heaven. Sacraments are for a temporal framework.

The Eucharist is a veil for us to receive Christ.
In heaven, we will be in constant communion with the Savior, and through him, the Trinity, without any veil.

The Eucharist is a sacrifice in a temporal framework.
There are no sacrifices in heaven. Heaven is the consummation of all sacrifices, hope and faith.
Sacrifice belongs to the period of faith and hope - earth.
In heaven .. no faith. No hope. The reality of the Beatific Vision takes those away.

And some deeper theology -
The sacrifice of The Lamb in the liturgy will be made obsolete by the heavenly nuptials of the Lamb.

This is what the Catholic Church teaches about it's own Holy Mass. And according to the Catholic faith, ALL GOOD CATHOLICS MUST BELIEVE THIS AS WELL. Scripture reference - Jesus speaking to Peter whom He just made head of His church on Earth - "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." .... So the Church has officially and repeatedly pronounced that there is NO MASS and NO FAITH in Heaven. There is no need.

I disagree FlyersFan, someone else add your thoughts on the subject. The Holy Mass, the "continual sacrifice" is offered in Heaven and on earth. Read Revelation, all the references to the Mass. Jesus offers Himself to the Father. His eternal sacrifice is made present.

Maybe not at the moment of death but everyone in Heaven is Roman Catholic.

Originally posted by colbe
I disagree FlyersFan, someone else add your thoughts on the subject. The Holy Mass, the "continual sacrifice" is offered in Heaven and on earth. Read Revelation, all the references to the Mass. Jesus offers Himself to the Father. His eternal sacrifice is made present. Maybe not at the moment of death but everyone in Heaven is Roman Catholic.

Disagree all you want. If you call yourself Catholic, then your take on it is wrong.
I gave the information straight from the Catholic Church teaching. The theology is sound.
Either you agree with it and are Roman Catholic, or you disagree and are Protestant.
Considering that you continually disagree with the Catholic Church ...
I know what you'll do ... disagree with the church and do your own thing when it suits you.
Right?

The Catholic Church teaches ... NO FAITH IN HEAVEN.
The Catholic Church teaches ... NO SACRAMENTS IN HEAVEN.
(and the Mass is a sacrament)

There will be a liturgy. Liturgy is prayer. But there is NO SACRIFICE OF THE MASS. It is not needed - for the reasons previously given. Basic sound theology. See .. the Church DOES know better than you do. Go back and read the information,

So which is it? Do you agree with Catholic theology and are Catholic? Or do you, once again, think you are a better theologian than all the Catholic Church and you are Protestant? The check marks in the Protestant collumn are certainly adding up ....

LIKE I SAID -

The Eucharist is a sacrament.
There are no sacraments in heaven. Sacraments are for a temporal framework.

The Eucharist is a veil for us to receive Christ.
In heaven, we will be in constant communion with the Savior, and through him, the Trinity, without any veil.

There are no sacrifices in heaven. Heaven is the consummation of all sacrifices, hope and faith.
Sacrifice belongs to the period of faith and hope - earth.
In heaven .. no faith. No hope. The reality of the Beatific Vision takes those away.

There is no Mass in Heaven

The book of Revelation does not say that there is “Mass” in heaven. In fact, St. John specifies that there is no longer any sacrifice being offered in heaven – therefore, there can be no Mass!

In the fifth chapter, St. John presents the “Lamb who had been slain”, which is Christ. This is the closest to sacrifice the book comes, but even here it is clear that the Lamb is not being offered – rather, the Lamb has already been consummated and now comes to bring final consummation and judgment upon the earth! ...

The Lamb once slain is not a priest offering sacrifice, but is priest consummated. Indeed, it is clear that he is not being offered, for the heavenly host says thou wast slain in the past tense. Indeed, the Lamb which once was slain and has redeemed his people, now (in heaven and at the end of time) gives eternal glory to his saints and receives their praises.

There is no Mass in heaven, because there is no re-presentation of the Sacrifice of the Cross. While there is surely “Liturgy” (insofar as the saints and angels praise God forever), there is no sacrifice – but Christ reigns as priest consummated and consummating

The Catholic Church got it's theology correct. Once all the sheep and goats are in heaven or hell ...there is no need for a "sacrifice for sinners" ... there is no need for sacraments .. there is no need for faith or hope because we will have the Beatific Vision. Faith and hope will be fulfilled and be a thing of the past. There will be no sinners left to sacrifice for ... everyone will be either in heaven or hell.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by colbe
I disagree FlyersFan, someone else add your thoughts on the subject. The Holy Mass, the "continual sacrifice" is offered in Heaven and on earth. Read Revelation, all the references to the Mass. Jesus offers Himself to the Father. His eternal sacrifice is made present. Maybe not at the moment of death but everyone in Heaven is Roman Catholic.

Disagree all you want. If you call yourself Catholic, then your take on it is wrong.
I gave the information straight from the Catholic Church teaching. The theology is sound.
Either you agree with it and are Roman Catholic, or you disagree and are Protestant.
Considering that you continually disagree with the Catholic Church ...
I know what you'll do ... disagree with the church and do your own thing when it suits you.
Right?

The Catholic Church teaches ... NO FAITH IN HEAVEN.
The Catholic Church teaches ... NO SACRAMENTS IN HEAVEN.
(and the Mass is a sacrament)

There will be a liturgy. Liturgy is prayer. But there is NO SACRIFICE OF THE MASS. It is not needed - for the reasons previously given. Basic sound theology. See .. the Church DOES know better than you do. Go back and read the information,

So which is it? Do you agree with Catholic theology and are Catholic? Or do you, once again, think you are a better theologian than all the Catholic Church and you are Protestant? The check marks in the Protestant collumn are certainly adding up ....

edit on 2/5/2013 by FlyersFan because: typo

Please no more accusing FlyersFan. We disagree. I am no theologian but the Heavenly liturgy sounds like the Holy Mass to me. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is Christ's (unbloody) sacrifice made present...continuously offered to the Father, it is eternal.

Better than I can explain and some Scripture. It's interesting about the Todah Sacrifice. Forever....

~ ~ ~

Rev. 2:17 - there is manna in heaven given to the faithful. This is the same as the Eucharistic manna given to the faithful at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 4:4, 5:14; 11:16, 14:3, 19:4 - there are priests ("presbyteroi") in heaven. Priests offer sacrifice. Our earthly priests participate with the heavenly priests in offering Jesus' eternal sacrifice in the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 8:3, 11:1, 14:18, 16:7 - there is an altar in heaven. But no altar is needed unless a sacrifice is being offered in heaven. This is the same sacrifice that is offered on the altars used in the Holy Masses on earth.
http:www.scripturecatholic.com/


The word Eucharist means thanksgiving ~
The ancient rabbis believed that when the Messiah would come all sacrifices EXCEPT the Todah would cease, but the Todah would continue for all eternity. In 70 AD the Temple fell to earth and all of the bloody animal sacrifices stopped. Only the Todah remains, the eucharistia, the Final Sacrifice at which the last words spoken are Todah l'Adonai, "Thanks be to God."


The earthly eucharist is a shadow of the heavenly eucharist, wherein the Body, united to the Head, offers itself -- body, heart, and mind -- to the Father. This is an eternal sacrifice, albeit a "reasonable" one, to use the language of the liturgy. One of the eucharistic prayers even speaks of a "heavenly altar."

St. Augustine wrote, "Such is the sacrifice of Christians: the multitude is one single body in Christ. The Church celebrates this mystery by the sacrifice of the altar, well known to believers, because in it, it is shown to her that in the things which she offers, it is she herself who is offered." This offering -- of the Church through, with, and in Christ, the Body with the Head -- shatters any spatial or temporal boundaries. It is in the past, it is in the present, it is in the future -- and in eternal kingdom."

Originally posted by colbe
Same as old, some modern sects reject the Trinity but in their Protestant way often ask, where is the Trinity in Holy Scripture?

God the Father, Son an Holy Spirit, Amen. Here is a verse on God the Holy Spirit, third person of the Blessed Trinity.

It states the Holy Spirit is a person. A person feels grief, experiences mourning.

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God: whereby you are sealed unto the day of redemption.


www.drbo.org...

This discussion about the Trinity helps you look at new found verses in Scripture. I never realized there is a reference to the Trinity in Revelation, Revelation 22:1. God the Holy Spirit is mentioned first. God the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. And, Our Lord speaks of the Holy Spirit symbolically referring to Him as "rivers of living water" (John 7:38-39).


Rev 22:1
And he shewed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb

Originally posted by colbe
I am no theologian but the Heavenly liturgy sounds like the Holy Mass to me. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is Christ's (unbloody) sacrifice made present...continuously offered to the Father, it is eternal.

You are correct. You are no theologian. The Catholic Church, however, is full of them and has had 2,000 years to understand it all. There is liturgy in heaven. That is why you need to trust the Catholic Church when it says that your theology is wrong. That is why you need to trust the Catholic Church when it says that some alleged apparition has bad theology. After Jesus returns - THERE IS NO SACRIFICE OF THE MASS IN HEAVEN. There is no need of a sacrifice. None. It is consumated. Everyone to sacrifice for will be in heaven or hell. It would be a waste of a sacrifice. And in perfect heaven ... waste doesn't happen.

Go back and re-read the information I posted.
The theology is sound.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
After Jesus returns - THERE IS NO SACRIFICE OF THE MASS IN HEAVEN. There is no need of a sacrifice. None. It is consumated.

There has been no need of a sacrifice since Christ died in 29 AD. When Christ said, "it is finished" during Daniel's 70th week.

reply to post by truejew


This thread has evolved greatly, (is the topic still relevant?) even though I stated I would not respond anymore, I felt compelled to chime in on this aspect of the thread.

With that said, I'm researching a definitive answer, however, I'm leaning towards agreeing with FF.

In the mean time, I would like to point out that:

The Catholic Church specifically says Christ does not die again—his death is once for all. It would be something else if the Church were to claim he does die again, but it doesn’t make that claim. Through his intercessory ministry in heaven and through the Mass, Jesus continues to offer himself to his Father as a living sacrifice, and he does so in what the Church specifically states is "an unbloody manner"—one that does not involve a new crucifixion.
source

But I'm sure you'll disagree as usual.

Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville
reply to post by truejew

 

This thread has evolved greatly, (is the topic still relevant?) even though I stated I would not respond anymore, I felt compelled to chime in on this aspect of the thread.

With that said, I'm researching a definitive answer, however, I'm leaning towards agreeing with FF.

In the mean time, I would like to point out that:

The Catholic Church specifically says Christ does not die again—his death is once for all. It would be something else if the Church were to claim he does die again, but it doesn’t make that claim. Through his intercessory ministry in heaven and through the Mass, Jesus continues to offer himself to his Father as a living sacrifice, and he does so in what the Church specifically states is "an unbloody manner"—one that does not involve a new crucifixion.
source

But I'm sure you'll disagree as usual.

edit on 2/6/2013 by IsidoreOfSeville because: Added some more thoughts and clarity.

Isidore,

FF quoted an article online NOT Church teaching. It was written by a priest. If you go to his writing, MOST all of those who responded disagreed with him. The Heavenly liturgy John saw in Revelation, Revelation is mysterious, the Church hasn't spoken definitively on every word...it sounds like the Holy Mass. There is an altar in Heaven as John states, Jesus' sacrifice is made present in Heaven as here on earth in the Holy Mass. Where in the Catechism does say there is no Mass offered in Heaven? Who can imagine there is no Eucharist in Heaven?

The priest, Father Ryan entitles his blog: The New Theological Movement. Yes, I can see why...
Here is the link, check the 19 comments to follow.

newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com...

The discussion got waylaid, I shared, my point, everyone in Heaven is Roman Catholic, why our disbelieving brothers and sisters in Christ need to pray, ask Our Lord is the true faith, Roman Catholicism? They need to read a Catholic bible, the Catechism, writings by the saints, etc...to prepare for the Great Warning and after.

Check the footnotes of the Douay-Rheims Bible www.drbo.org... they are a great help.

Thanks for explaining to truejew.


colbe

reply to post by colbe


Colbe,

I understand your point, but consider this:

1344 Thus from celebration to celebration, as they proclaim the Paschal mystery of Jesus "until he comes," the pilgrim People of God advances, "following the narrow way of the cross,"170 toward the heavenly banquet, when all the elect will be seated at the table of the kingdom

It's that pesky word "until." Perhaps that is the disconnect?

I also understand that blog is one priest's personal opinion, and it does NOT come from the Magisterium. I did go there and read, and I did note some disagreement with his opinion.

But think about it this way; if we are partaking of the beatific vision in Heaven; physically with Christ, do we even need the Eucharist/Mass? It got me thinking so I've fired off an email for further clarification from someone way smarter than me on this issue.

On a side note, you may want to refrain from using "Roman" Catholic, as that is typically referring to the Latin Rite Catholics. There are 23 Catholic churches in Communion with Rome; all having their own rites and all fully Catholic.

Originally posted by colbe
Where in the Catechism does say there is no Mass offered in Heaven?

I already gave it. The Eucharist in Mass is to take place 'UNTIL HE COMES AGAIN".
Catholic Catechism on the Holy Mass

1340 By celebrating the Last Supper with his apostles in the course of the Passover meal, Jesus gave the Jewish Passover its definitive meaning. Jesus' passing over to his father by his death and Resurrection, the new Passover, is anticipated in the Supper and celebrated in the Eucharist, which fulfills the Jewish Passover and anticipates the final Passover of the Church in the glory of the kingdom.

"Do this in memory of me"

1341 The command of Jesus to repeat his actions and words "until he comes" does not only ask us to remember Jesus and what he did. It is directed at the liturgical celebration, by the apostles and their successors, of the memorial of Christ, of his life, of his death, of his Resurrection, and of his intercession in the presence of the Father.167 ...

1343 It was above all on "the first day of the week," Sunday, the day of Jesus' resurrection, that the Christians met "to break bread."169 From that time on down to our own day the celebration of the Eucharist has been continued so that today we encounter it everywhere in the Church with the same fundamental structure. It remains the center of the Church's life.

1344 Thus from celebration to celebration, as they proclaim the Paschal mystery of Jesus "until he comes," the pilgrim People of God advances, "following the narrow way of the cross,"170 toward the heavenly banquet, when all the elect will be seated at the table of the kingdom.

Wanna show me where it says in the Catechism that there will be sacraments and Eucharistic sacrifice in heaven after Jesus comes again?? It doesn't make any theological sense.

There will be 'liturgy' .. prayer .. absolutely. But NO SACRAMENTS.
Those are for helping those on Earth. Those in heaven have no need of them.
They have the beatific vision.

Who can imagine there is no Eucharist in Heaven?

Again .. there is NO NEED. You will have the beatific vision. Christ is totally present. The Eucharist is a SACRAMENT and there are no need of sacraments in heaven. No baptism. No confession. No marriage. No extreme unction. No holy orders taking place. No communion - because you will already be in FULL COMMUNION with God via the Beatific Vision.

The Eucharist is a sacrifice. There will be no need for a sacrifice in heaven once everyone has been separated into heaven and hell. It's common sense and theologically correct to say - no Eucharistic sacrifice in heaven after the end of time.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Pretty much what I was saying..

I will grant you though that the Catechism was intended for the lawyer-types for uniformity, so a layman may have a hard time interpreting. However, my reading comprehension skills are pretty good, and your thoughts are the same thoughts I came to reading that section of the Catechism.

I'm still awaiting a response to my email I sent out. Probably be tomorrow before I get anything.

Originally posted by colbe
MOST all of those who responded disagreed with him.

Oh? ALL the people responding at these Catholic sites agree with me.
Catholic Answers Forums
More Catholic Answers Forums

"Take this, all of you, and drink from it: for this is the chalice of my Blood, the Blood of the new and eternal covenant, which will be poured out for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins"

Guess what?
With everyone in Heaven or Hell .. there will be no more 'forgiveness of sins' necessary.

"For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes."
Proclaiming his death .. UNTIL HE COMES.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by colbe
MOST all of those who responded disagreed with him.

Oh? ALL the people responding at these Catholic sites agree with me.
Catholic Answers Forums
More Catholic Answers Forums

"Take this, all of you, and drink from it: for this is the chalice of my Blood, the Blood of the new and eternal covenant, which will be poured out for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins"

Guess what?
With everyone in Heaven or Hell .. there will be no more 'forgiveness of sins' necessary.

"For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes."
Proclaiming his death .. UNTIL HE COMES.

The switch. I wasn't referring to Catholic Answers FlyersFan. I was talking about the blog responses to Father Ryan's writing you posted in this thread taken from his blog. There were 19 comments and most of them disagreed with Father Ryan.

And dear sister, Confession was never brought up, we're discussing, if the Holy Mass is offered in Heaven.


blessings,

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by colbe
Where in the Catechism does say there is no Mass offered in Heaven?

I already gave it. The Eucharist in Mass is to take place 'UNTIL HE COMES AGAIN".
Catholic Catechism on the Holy Mass

1340 By celebrating the Last Supper with his apostles in the course of the Passover meal, Jesus gave the Jewish Passover its definitive meaning. Jesus' passing over to his father by his death and Resurrection, the new Passover, is anticipated in the Supper and celebrated in the Eucharist, which fulfills the Jewish Passover and anticipates the final Passover of the Church in the glory of the kingdom.

"Do this in memory of me"

1341 The command of Jesus to repeat his actions and words "until he comes" does not only ask us to remember Jesus and what he did. It is directed at the liturgical celebration, by the apostles and their successors, of the memorial of Christ, of his life, of his death, of his Resurrection, and of his intercession in the presence of the Father.167 ...

1343 It was above all on "the first day of the week," Sunday, the day of Jesus' resurrection, that the Christians met "to break bread."169 From that time on down to our own day the celebration of the Eucharist has been continued so that today we encounter it everywhere in the Church with the same fundamental structure. It remains the center of the Church's life.

1344 Thus from celebration to celebration, as they proclaim the Paschal mystery of Jesus "until he comes," the pilgrim People of God advances, "following the narrow way of the cross,"170 toward the heavenly banquet, when all the elect will be seated at the table of the kingdom.

Wanna show me where it says in the Catechism that there will be sacraments and Eucharistic sacrifice in heaven after Jesus comes again?? It doesn't make any theological sense.

There will be 'liturgy' .. prayer .. absolutely. But NO SACRAMENTS.
Those are for helping those on Earth. Those in heaven have no need of them.
They have the beatific vision.

Who can imagine there is no Eucharist in Heaven?

Again .. there is NO NEED. You will have the beatific vision. Christ is totally present. The Eucharist is a SACRAMENT and there are no need of sacraments in heaven. No baptism. No confession. No marriage. No extreme unction. No holy orders taking place. No communion - because you will already be in FULL COMMUNION with God via the Beatific Vision.

The Eucharist is a sacrifice. There will be no need for a sacrifice in heaven once everyone has been separated into heaven and hell. It's common sense and theologically correct to say - no Eucharistic sacrifice in heaven after the end of time.

I never said "Sacraments" plural. I said the Holy Mass is offered in Heaven, Revelation is mysterious it sounds like the Mass, maybe something higher. Read the words in Revelation, they fit the Holy Mass.

"Heaven and hell?", we're not discussing judgment.

reply to post by IsidoreOfSeville


Isidore, hi,

A priest is a priest forever, what are they doing now in Heaven? Why is there an "altar" there?

We'll find out someday, if we make it to Heaven.