China Newspaper Says.....

Originally posted by intrptr

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

The U.S. has forces specific to this region that would be capable of handling any Chinese threat.

Famous last words.

Edit: Whoops, this is a argue war thread... my bad

I'm out.

edit on 13-1-2013 by intrptr because: additional...

Compare US forces in the Pacific with the Chinese naval forces. Then let me know what you think.

Already been done. Not by me either. You're depending on carriers and they are obsolete as far as new sub technology and smart mines, missiles, both land and sea based. Carrirers are LSTs (Large Slow Targets). They can be overwhelmed the way bush men used to overwhelm elephants. They shoot a 1000 arrows into them. The elephant stomps and trumpets but eventually is overcome.

Here... read it for yourself.

Generally Speaking

Now I'm out.

Have you ever heard of a bomb or airstrikes.Send all the bable from a sinochinese fourm you wish.

'He who marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.He has been given a large brain by mistake,since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice." Albert Einstein

Originally posted by Kashai

All things considered China is threating global war, in relation to trying to control these islands. Again the cause of war is a matter of recourses. This could very well explain why the United States has begun moving its naval recourses into the pacific The current real threat to world peace is China. In its effort to expand in a world where all recourses have been indented and defined as belonging to a valid sovereign nation.

In this case Japan.

Any thoughts?


www.businessinsider.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 13-1-2013 by Kashai because: modfed content

Threatening global war? How so?

What if China had the understanding that anytime the US so much as flew a plane over a non-allied country in a threatening or defensive manner, they were to straight away assume it is a threat of global war and that they needed to prepare to mobilize military resources? We would have been AT GLOBAL WAR so long ago, we wouldn't even be sitting here having this conversation now... if that were the case and China was anywhere NEAR as eager as some in this thread to jump the gun and call global war over some planes scrambling in ambiguous territory.

They haven't even taken one life over this yet... we on the other hand have killed millions of people over resources that we have such LITTLE claim to (compared to China's claim) that we have to launch billion dollar propaganda campaigns to make excuses to the public.

Threatening global war?

Um, no... that would be the western elites, the bankers who want to keep us emerged in their monetary pyramid scheme and the Zionist Entity controlled by the crusading warlords.

And this thing about how the US is just supposed to jump to Japans aide in the event that anything happens is very last century. Japans military is NOT non existent as some on this forum would have us believe. They are not exactly our helpless pet.

I think some some people are really hyping this up as a form of anti-China propaganda.

At the same time, China probably SHOULD be preparing for global war for other reasons, but are doubtfully going to be the one's who start it.

Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by intrptr

 

When you speak of an Air-craft Carrier it is perhaps important to refer to an air-craft carrier group...

usmilitary.about.com... .htm

Then of course there is something one the scale of the 6th fleet...

en.wikipedia.org...

Any thoughts?

He is obviuosly completely clueless to any actual facts, as is evidenced by the post he linked.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by JBA2848

 

China tends to flex it's muscle for the sake of Headlines as well to keep the idea that the Chinese Communist Party is capable of confronting the United States.

In reality...it is not.

Split Infinity

Split... trying pulling it "back together"

Seeing as how we haven't even defeated the freaking Taliban before our early schedule to leave after a twelve year occupation (and after decades of toppling attempts)

That's a mighty high horse you have there... and I don't think it's any war horse.

I think it's just a glorified soap box.

The US economy is going down. You might as well adjust to that and peace out for a while.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


Those islands belong to Japan and once Chinese aircraft travel within 12 miles of the shore of those islands, they are violating the sovereignty of the country of Japan.

Unless Japan gives China permision to do so, which it has not.

That is an act of war....

Any thoughts?

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Great work of fiction.

Thanks, I liked yours too.

Originally posted by NotAnAspie

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by JBA2848

 

China tends to flex it's muscle for the sake of Headlines as well to keep the idea that the Chinese Communist Party is capable of confronting the United States.

In reality...it is not.

Split Infinity

Split... trying pulling it "back together"

Seeing as how we haven't even defeated the freaking Taliban before our early schedule to leave after a twelve year occupation (and after decades of toppling attempts)

That's a mighty high horse you have there... and I don't think it's any war horse.

I think it's just a glorified soap box.

The US economy is going down. You might as well adjust to that and peace out for a while.

edit on 13-1-2013 by NotAnAspie because: (no reason given)

The Taliban is an occupational war, like Korea. Those are notoriously hard to win. A war with China would be like WW2. We go in, destroy them, they surrender. Naval blockades that starve them. Literally even, as they import a lot of food, especially corn from the US. Their economy would starve as well as NO exporting would be allowed. Their factories would all be destroyed by missile strikes. The comparison you want to make is ludicrous.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Great work of fiction.

Thanks, I liked yours too.

So then how about you actually answer my questions. How many actual warships are in the Chinese Navy? US Navy? Thanks. I know you hat ehonest discourse as it obliterates your argument.

ETA: Just so you can leave and I can stop laughing, I will be kind enough to post the information.

China:
Aircraft Carriers 1 (being VERY generous)
Assault Ships 2
Destroyers 25
Frigates 47

US:
Aircraft Carriers 10 Nuclear Powered Carriers
Assault Ships 9 (can be used as carriers as well as ground assaults)
Cruisers 22
Destroyers 66 (including new Zumwalt Stealth Destroyers)
Frigates 27

The numbers make it clear who the top dog is. Now on top of the numbers is actual performance, and the US Navy is far more advanced technologically, as well as dictrinally. It's like sending a 3 year old to fight a grown man.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


A embargo on China would only stop the US itself from getting goods. That Is why I said China can deal with the US. Hell China owns most of the cargo ships the US uses. There is no war going to happen between the two. Now Japan, UK and Israel are not so heavily connected and supplied by China. In a few more years when South America really kicks in with all the Walmart USAID deals that have been made by Hillary China will no longer have pull with the US like it does now.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
The US would back Japan with the full might of our military, and China would be in ruins within weeks. Russia would never back China, and if they did they too would be annihilated, it would take most likely a few months for both nations to surrender, with almost no US casualties. Both countries combined could not dent the US Navy, they would be blockaded, bombed, and become withering hulks. They would be forced to repay huge reparations, and would be a huge coup for the US and the US economy.

Never happen.

How often has the US has gotten into a prolonged conflict, there was a thought going in as if "this will end in a few weeks" Just the threat of MAD, is enough to give pause. That said i don't doubt the US capabilities in the least.

personally, i think china is just testing to see if there are going to be any changes in the way business is done now that N. Korea is on the verge of long range nuclear capabilities and put pressure on the rest of the pacific.

Originally posted by JBA2848
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

A embargo on China would only stop the US itself from getting goods. That Is why I said China can deal with the US. Hell China owns most of the cargo ships the US uses. There is no war going to happen between the two. Now Japan, UK and Israel are not so heavily connected and supplied by China. In a few more years when South America really kicks in with all the Walmart USAID deals that have been made by Hillary China will no longer have pull with the US like it does now.

There is also the Rare Earth metals market which approximately 95% of all supply comes from china. Now that will change once the large mines in Calfornia go online over the next 5 yaers

reply to post by Taikun


Russia is no longer ideologically aligned with China and will only move if their direct economic interests would be affected. In this case Russia would benefit more from staying out of it. I would bet that it would start a chain reaction, from a Chinese invasion of Taiwan to even some expansion into Vietnam (the reason why China never took control of Vietnam clearly demonstrates that China's logic and motivations is not expansionism but the restoration and resolution of what they perceive as historic disputes, even the annexation of Tibet falls into this category (Tibet was extremely underdeveloped, resources, especially water security and the view against religion only made the case stronger for the Chinese). North Korea would probably join any larger escalation in the region if it involves Japan, South Korea or the US.

reply to post by JBA2848


Actually an embargo by the US on China would effectively be like saying to her leaders,”surrender or starve". You are assuming Canada and South and Central America would not do the same thing...they would.

And what about Europe, India, Australia and Africa???

A conflict between the United States and China presents a Global conflict.

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by JBA2848
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

A embargo on China would only stop the US itself from getting goods. That Is why I said China can deal with the US. Hell China owns most of the cargo ships the US uses. There is no war going to happen between the two. Now Japan, UK and Israel are not so heavily connected and supplied by China. In a few more years when South America really kicks in with all the Walmart USAID deals that have been made by Hillary China will no longer have pull with the US like it does now.

What goods would we get from China if war broke out? None. We would import from India and other countries, effectively destroying the Chinese economy in the long term. I agree, no war will happen. China doesn't stand a chance and they know it.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


So why are they violating Japans Airspace?

Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by NotAnAspie

 

Those islands belong to Japan and once Chinese aircraft travel within 12 miles of the shore of those islands, they are violating the sovereignty of the country of Japan.

Unless Japan gives China permision to do so, which it has not.

That is an act of war....

Any thoughts?

edit on 13-1-2013 by Kashai because: added content

My thoughts are that the argument between China and Japan is not my argument. I think this could be something we don't fully understand... or something that may simply blow over or somehow get resolved... but at the very same time, Japan originally took those Islands which DID belong to China... and a global economic struggle has been going on since that time... before even, in all parts of the world.

I will venture to say that while the west is behaving so badly right now, if I were a leader in China... I'd want security of those Islands because of the close vicinity to both the ROC and the PROC. If global war does break out... started by the west of course, those islands could be a security threat for China and they originally belonged to them anyway. What if the true reluctance in returning those Islands was for that very same reason, from the other side of this argument. I think China has a legitimate concern although I'm not prepared to say that I think those who have invested in the Islands should simply take a loss... My point is that the rest of the world needs to concentrate on behaving more appropriately in ALL matters concerning war before they point a finger at China.

I'm not the only one in this world to believe that China is a possible target for WW3 due to it's rising currency.

I think truly mature minds pondering over world events at this juncture in light of the fall of Western economies would be understanding of that very obvious concept and get past the pettiness of the "BUT IT'S JAPANS NOW... THEY STOLE IT FAIR A SQUARE!!" stunted mindset.

We've got much bigger issues in the west to poke sticks at. Let China and Japan scramble over air and sea territories if they want to express their prowess. When someone gets hurt then we can all frown upon it as an international community and take a look at who caused unnecessary injury to who and did not settle it fairly. It does NOT mean this issue is going to lead to global war no matter how many western media outlets want to shine the condescending spotlight on it when they sure as hell don't have any business pointing a finger or sticking their nose into this.

Maybe if global war was NOT on the apparent agenda, driven by western elites, China could relax on it a bit as they had tolerated this before for so long... because if you look at the history, the taking of those Islands and the intervention into Chinese affairs in the work up of the Chinese civil war and the world wars has always been deserving of a very suspicious eye.

The west has ALWAYS been competing with Eastern trade since the beginning of written history and China is the dominant force behind Eastern economies.

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
I think truly mature minds pondering over world events at this juncture in light of the fall of Western economies would be understanding of that very obvious concept and get past the pettiness of the "BUT IT'S JAPANS NOW... THEY STOLE IT FAIR A SQUARE!!" stunted mindset.

No mature mind says that. Mature minds say China stated the islands belonged to Japan for 70 years. Then, resources were found, and China immediately did a 180 and said they were Chinese. I will be happy to show MANY examples of China saying the islands were Japanese until 1969.

Originally posted by Kashai

All things considered China is threating global war, in relation to trying to control these islands. Again the cause of war is a matter of recourses. This could very well explain why the United States has begun moving its naval recourses into the pacific The current real threat to world peace is China. In its effort to expand in a world where all recourses have been indented and defined as belonging to a valid sovereign nation.

In this case Japan.

Any thoughts?


www.businessinsider.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 13-1-2013 by Kashai because: modfed content

Ughhh, let's hope it doesn't get to this point where we have to fight another big War, specially with China. Let's let everyone else settle their own problems for once.

A war between the US and China would not produce any winners. How is victory reached in a war? Well, either one side overpowers the other and takes their cities, or one side decides enough blood had been spilled by their people and they surrender. In WW2, Germany was taken by the allies. And Japan surrendered once they saw the horrible weapon the US had, and gave up to avoid loss of life. But in a hypothetical China vs.USA; the USA even as powerful as it is could never take Beijing, and they both already know that utter destruction via nuclear war is possible before even starting.

So therefore, no winners possible.

OR
The Taliban is an occupational war, like Korea. Those are notoriously hard to win. A war with China would be like WW2. We go in, destroy them, they surrender. Naval blockades that starve them. Literally even, as they import a lot of food, especially corn from the US. Their economy would starve as well as NO exporting would be allowed. Their factories would all be destroyed by missile strikes. The comparison you want to make is ludicrous.

Where does the Taliban get there food? The desert?

You are attempting to tell me that if the US stopped sending corn to China (probably because US corn is much more valuable at this time than US money) that you think this ancient, vast population of ingenuity is going to starve... and you want to call my claim ludicrous? Newsflash... Stuff grows in China. Lot's of stuff. Also, like it or not, the majority of the world's population would probably take China's side if the US attacked them over some small Island dispute with Japan.

So you are claiming that we'd go in and destroy the people of China... not to mention their allies that would be coming to their aide... but without an occupation.

So why couldn't we just "go in" as you say and "destroy" the Taliban... Oh yeah... WE TRIED. Lest we forget.

We would have to resort to *numerous* nukes or bio warfare on a massive scale and would be so guilty of warcrimes, no one with any sense would take our side. Not to mention the fact that China has nuclear retaliation of it's own so while WE were nuking them, they'd turn around and start nuking us... and they'd probably get a lot further with that faster due to mere landmass differences. This theory of yours is nothing but egotism, I'm sorry to say... and you should really consider what kind of fear you are trying to monger here in a time when the world needs peace... and what I mean by that is that the west needs to sit down and shut up for a little while, not be making ridiculous threats like destroying China.

Western economies *will* fall to other economies... and rightfully so.

If global nuclear war broke out... a few Asian people hiding in mountains would probably be the ONLY ones to survive. The Americas could be decimated much more quickly than Asia.... and furthermore, I seriously doubt key players in South America would let us get very far into global nuclear war, knowing that it would directly affect them to have the continent destroyed and they are already making this known in various ways. I know South America could not beat us, but there is no doubt they would lend a big hand in taking us down a notch. hat's not counting other nations in other continents who would know good and damn well that once we start chunking nukes at China and they start retaliating, the US will straight away start jumping to other regions... occupying them as bases and using THEIR resources, which will happen faster on the N. American continent so it would be in everyone's best interest to go ahead and eliminate US, side with China, save and repair Asia, cut off and quarantine N. America and the European countries that might try to get involved (some of which are nearly sea locked to begin with) before we destroy the entire planet. That's just geo-ecomomic strategic common sense for preservation in the aftermath. THINK for God's sake. The world is not going to let us DESTROY China.

All this is, this idea that to totally defeat China would be a cake walk, is nothing more than pepped up military talk. We would NEVER be able to just "destroy" China.

In this day of information... everyone would see what is going on and they would get involved. This would NOT solely be a military fight. Everyone knows that the first world wars were just a work up to a huge third world war if someone starts throwing nukes after the global community has banned their use in active war. Everyone knows that WW3 would make the other two wars look like mere conflicts. Every possible threat would be brought to the table once the global power and diplomacy system crumbled and the SIMPLE FACT... is that The North American continent's population could be reduced to a skeleton crew before we could make a dent on the population of Asia... and any allies we think we have in Asia, you could kiss all that diplomatic jargon goodbye if we attack China. It's nothing but posturing in front of the camera at this point anyway. Get real. Let communication completely breakdown and have the entire world's population trying to figure out what's going on... and the longest finger of the people will be pointed at US. The majority of the world already knows this in their hearts, it's just that the propaganda volume is turned up so loud, it can only hear itself.

We will NOT win if we jump on China.