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Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by Akragon
Originally posted by Akragon
I've heard many people say God is Omnipresent / omnipotent... Meaning he sees all things that can and will happen in the past, present, and future, which I really have no argument about... Who am I to judge God
I find that this whole Omnipresent/omnipotent...aspect of God, does not come from the Bible, but instead seems to be coming from other religious definitions of God.
My personal view right now, is that God is as Omnipresent, as He can possibly be, without actually being so!
I believe that because God can see more than any of us, He is able to see shadows of potential future events, which are most likely to occur, if certain patterns of things, go unchanged etc…
Originally posted by Akragon
SO the question is, what would be the point of letting a person incarnate into this life, if he is already headed to hell? …
So too answer your question, I believe we are not predestined to be heading anywhere, because through what I explained above, God essentially leaves us, with our own freewill.
Originally posted by Akragon
And while even Jesus mentioned Hell, he did not mean a place of torture where you'll burn for eternity.
I agree with you that Hell is not a place where ones burns for all eternity. Just based on the biblical scriptures alone, Hell is the “second death”.
So to be alive spiritually forever suffering punishment; would mean that God was lying in Genesis, when He said “…for when you eat of it you will surely die” etc Of course from the Christian perspective this is not just talking about physical death entering the world, but also about being cut off from God as well, which includes spiritual death, i.e. “The second death”
I know you have done many Threads now on Hell…but I’m kinda curious… what do most of Jesus metaphors/words around Hell, mean to you?
- JC
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The whole point of this grand experiment was to be cut off from God;
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
no cell phone no telepathy to see what we'd do as a stranded and screwed with (DNA) Nibiru playtime.
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Hell is not a general place. It is what you imagine for yourself as your personalized JAIL. I use the pawnbroker as an explanation.
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
One planet all of the proclivities of taking advantage of the downtroden go THERE; problem, no customers. What to do?! NO MERCHANDISE and in as "WE PAWNSTERS" have NO SOULS TO BARTER. Fitting and beautiful.
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
This applies to all other boutique endevers; very specialized in your problematic individualized sins against your fellow man will come back to judgement regarding the ownership of your SOUL and if you can argue its freedom.
President "Bobby": Mr. Gardner, do you agree with Ben, or do you think that we can stimulate growth through temporary incentives?
[Long pause]
Chance the Gardener: As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden.
President "Bobby": In the garden.
Chance the Gardener: Yes. In the garden, growth has it seasons. First comes spring and summer, but then we have fall and winter. And then we get spring and summer again.
President "Bobby": Spring and summer.
Chance the Gardener: Yes.
President "Bobby": Then fall and winter.
Chance the Gardener: Yes.
Benjamin Rand: I think what our insightful young friend is saying is that we welcome the inevitable seasons of nature, but we're upset by the seasons of our economy.
Chance the Gardener: Yes! There will be growth in the spring!
Benjamin Rand: Hmm!
Chance the Gardener: Hmm!
President "Bobby": Hm. Well, Mr. Gardner, I must admit that is one of the most refreshing and optimistic statements I've heard in a very, very long time.
[Benjamin Rand applauds]
President "Bobby": I admire your good, solid sense. That's precisely what we lack on Capitol Hill.
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by steppenwolf86
From the point of view that the deity sees the world, free will does.not exist, but to us on the ground, with no knowledge of the plan, free will does exist. You come to a fork in the road, and from.an aerial view you can see that the two roads again merge into one 10 miles later, but on the ground you can't see that far ahead.
If you have no knowledge of the "grand plan" then how do you know you have free will? For all you know, everything you've ever said and done was planned out exactly as it happened. "God", with all of his omniscience and omnipotence, engineered the world precisely so that everything that has happened since the beginning would happen. All of it engineered, because he had the tools.
You very much have a choice, but had you seen the larger picture you would say you didn't have a choice at all. Of course one can always leave the road altogether and walk through the wilderness... I firmly believe in free will, and I also believe in God. I can't always explain how or why, but why should I?
Because of this:
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein.
Clearly, you don't understand whereof you speak.
Anyways I learned long ago that such a philosophical argument is pointless and even arrogant. People are always trying to prove or disprove God's existence and so few minds are ever changed. All it amounts to is a lot of hot air.
Oh, it's not difficult to disprove the existence of the Christian god. The Judaics weren't very good storytellers.
I agree with you that Hell is not a place where ones burns for all eternity. Just based on the biblical scriptures alone, Hell is the “second death”.
So to be alive spiritually forever suffering punishment; would mean that God was lying in Genesis, when He said “…for when you eat of it you will surely die”
I know you have done many Threads now on Hell…but I’m kinda curious… what do most of Jesus metaphors/words around Hell, mean to you?
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by drivers1492
God is more than just man, he is the birds and the fish, man and woman, trees and bushes, planets and the stars, he is everything that can be seen and he is the thing which sees everything. God is us experiencing himself.edit on 11-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by akushla99
My arguments revolve around the popular claims that "God" is omniscient and omnipotent, but failed to foresee or prevent "Satan" corrupting his children. The whole proposition is completely illogical...
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?” - Epicurus
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by akushla99
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?” - Epicurus
Your argument still leaves gaping holes, as you fail to address all the above facets of the discussion. Either he subscribes to favoritism, or he is unable to abolish all evil. Free will has nothing to do with the fact that he chose to create evil and then condemn it, but not before imbuing all of his creations with the potential for that which he has condemned, even knowing he would condemn it..not to mention that he gives his creations every opportunity to succumb to it.edit on 15-1-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)
The questions posed, are called 'closed question' format. They are NOT in actuality questions at all...i.e. 'Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able"...the words 'willing', 'prevent', 'evil' and 'not able' are 'unqualified assumptions'...
THERE ARE NO GAPING HOLES...
Originally posted by Akragon
I do not believe the "second death" happens... only rebirth...
There is no reference to the "second death" in the gospels... except perhaps...
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
And I don't believe he was talking about the death of the soul... There is other ways to destroy something without it becoming non existent
Originally posted by Joecroft
So to be alive spiritually forever suffering punishment; would mean that God was lying in Genesis, when He said “…for when you eat of it you will surely die”
Originally posted by Akragon
Right...
That wasn't God speaking for one...
Originally posted by Akragon
Have you ever noticed this verse from that same chapter you're speaking of?
21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Ever wonder why this so called God is Jealous?
You just found your answer...
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Nicely done Mom, I could have sworn I'd locked that door.
Originally posted by vethumanbeing
This planet is an experiment, no holds barred, free will and all; to see if humankind is going to figure it out for the very first time or kill itself (very tiresome) again.
So reading between the lines here, I take it you mean that after Reincarnation has taken place, that the previous Soul was deleted, erased, became non existent, like the wiping of a CD etc… is that close?
Holy Mama… I didn’t see that one coming
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by akushla99
The questions posed, are called 'closed question' format. They are NOT in actuality questions at all...i.e. 'Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able"...the words 'willing', 'prevent', 'evil' and 'not able' are 'unqualified assumptions'...
How are they unqualified assumptions?
THERE ARE NO GAPING HOLES...
You have so far failed to refute the Epicurus quote. From where I am sitting, that is indicative of several gaping holes.
edit on 15-1-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)