A logical problem with "Hell": Part 2

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posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


I really don't see how having consciousness makes me be god, part of god, or able to see god. Thats a rational I have never been able to agree with. For me, being aware does not have anything to do with a god. It is a product natural laws not mystical.




posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by drivers1492
 


If god gives life and consciousness is the process through which life is perceived then god is consciousness which is also us. As I said before, you still cling to the churches version of god and that version overlaps into any other thoughts or versions of god others bring up.

Let go of their dogma and you will see, their version of a god who is separate from ourselves is false. God is not separate from you. You base any mention of the word god solely on the churches version which is another trap they have set up for you. You've taken the bait hook, line, and sinker.
edit on 11-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by drivers1492
 



I really don't see how having consciousness makes me be god, part of god, or able to see god.


Well, in order to better explain that, I must first ask you a question.

What does "godly" mean to you?


For me, being aware does not have anything to do with a god. It is a product natural laws not mystical.


"Godly" does not mean mystical. If it is no longer mystical, would that make it no longer "godly"?



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by drivers1492
 



I really don't see how having consciousness makes me be god, part of god, or able to see god.


Well, in order to better explain that, I must first ask you a question.

What does "godly" mean to you?


For me, being aware does not have anything to do with a god. It is a product natural laws not mystical.


"Godly" does not mean mystical. If it is no longer mystical, would that make it no longer "godly"? Because if that's the case, then "godly" is just another word for "puzzling". Rather anticlimactic, I think.
edit on 11-1-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


We are discussing the biblical god so of course I'm relating to the text that concerns it. Stepping away from all that, which I have in order to view it differently, I come up with the same conclusions. We are not gods nor is there one present that I am aware of.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by drivers1492
 


Then you do not understand yourself. What makes you believe we can't be god other than what the bible (religion in general) has taught?
edit on 11-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Yes there is something mystical about any god. Even if you hold the view that we are gods and he is us. For something to be godly or godlike it separates from the norm or natural. The term is used when describing people sometimes but I do not agree with it.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Logic tells me I'm not. Being part of the universe on level that we can't really understand completely outside of the basic building blocks of matter that is the same in everything doesn't make me special. I am unique. Just like anything else is unique.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by drivers1492
 



Yes there is something mystical about any god. Even if you hold the view that we are gods and he is us. For something to be godly or godlike it separates from the norm or natural. The term is used when describing people sometimes but I do not agree with it.


And who says the normal can't be godly? Who says to be godly is to be unnatural? You appear to be speaking from the dualist perspective of perfection and imperfection.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by drivers1492
 


Is your life not special to you? You are very special my friend because you have life within you. You believing that you are not special is you doubting in yourself. Your personality may be unique and your perspective may be unique but you experience life just like everyone else. Life is life is life, no matter from what perspective it is being seen from. Your body and mind may be unique but the life within you is the same as all life in the universe.

God is not at all unnatural or mystical, god is what all natural things consist within.
edit on 11-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


OK....I understand your argument, honestly I do. Here is the thing though. When you are dealing with matters like this, no matter what your position, it boils down to what you believe with whats available to you. I can explain how I came to my stance as best as I am able but I have nothing more to support it as the next person. Taking everything into consideration a god should be more than what man is, was or will ever be. I can debate back and forth the view but neither one of us has any facts to say we are right only our personal understanding. Who knows I may be entirely wrong, and if I am maybe one day all my reading and wondering will show me. But at this moment I don't think that I am.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by drivers1492
 


God is more than just man, he is the birds and the fish, man and woman, trees and bushes, planets and the stars, he is everything that can be seen and he is the thing which sees everything. God is us experiencing himself.
edit on 11-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 

Lol I feel the love. Taking what I said a bit further than it was intended. I am not special in the scheme of the universe no. Am I to me? Yeah sure I am. Don't misunderstand my statement. My gf would argue it too most days. I do disagree though, everything experiences life differently than everything else. It may be minute in the difference but again it goes back to being unique. That uniqueness does not scream god is here though. At least it never has for me.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by drivers1492
 


Your experience of this life may be unique but life is life. You may experience life different than say a fish but you both still experience, no matter what path that experience sends you down. There may be different subsets of experience but they are all still experiences. Does that make sense?

You are very special to the universe because if your consciousness (consciousness in general) is not here then there would be nothing, only darkness. To understand this you have to stop thinking of yourself as separate and start thinking of yourself as One with life itself.
edit on 11-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


ETA: This will be my last off-topic post. Sorry Akragon, I didn't mean to hijack your thread.
edit on 11-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Happens all the time...

No worries my friend




posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


I understand your stance but I do disagree. Off topic lol I forgot what the topic was....thought we were on it. Oops sorry Akragon
. Seems like I did originally ask an on topic question but we ended up here.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by drivers1492
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


I really don't see how having consciousness makes me be god, part of god, or able to see god. Thats a rational I have never been able to agree with. For me, being aware does not have anything to do with a god. It is a product natural laws not mystical.


If true awareness rational not being able to agree with is WHAT. Natural laws Not mystical? How about physical? Are you not a walking talking bipedal being? Consciousness does not make you a god part of god or able to SEE god? Rational thinking has no thing to do with your dusty clouded existance. You are lost. DISCRIBE your awareness as you as an individual particle of God describes itself. Talk to me about the natural laws of physics not mystical as in your body rots and your mind GOES WHERE?



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by drivers1492
 


God is more than just man, he is the birds and the fish, man and woman, trees and bushes, planets and the stars, he is everything that can be seen and he is the thing which sees everything. God is us experiencing himself.
edit on 11-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


Exactly.

Three times, I experienced myself being thrown outside of my body, and it appeared like I watched my life through a TV screen.

The first and second time when it happened (in the office), it was because I asked myself these three questions:
Why do I exist? Why I'm here? What am I doing here?

The third time was after I watched the videos about "Is our world just a simulation".
I tried to ask myself, is this real? is my life really just a simulation in my head?

After these, a lot of disturbing thoughts appeared in my head (most of them were because I ate all of the gnostic stories literally).

Luckily I visited This Thread and all the disturbing thoughts in my head become positive.

And I start to see my life differently and somehow my attachment to this world is becoming lesser and lesser.

My story probably sounds like a fantasy to some of you but this is the experience I want to share with you. I hope it helps anyone who probably is experiencing the same thing like I did.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 





Originally posted by Akragon
I've heard many people say God is Omnipresent / omnipotent... Meaning he sees all things that can and will happen in the past, present, and future, which I really have no argument about... Who am I to judge God



I find that this whole Omnipresent/omnipotent...aspect of God, does not come from the Bible, but instead seems to be coming from other religious definitions of God.

My personal view right now, is that God is as Omnipresent, as He can possibly be, without actually being so!

I believe that because God can see more than any of us, He is able to see shadows of potential future events, which are most likely to occur, if certain patterns of things, go unchanged etc…




Originally posted by Akragon
SO the question is, what would be the point of letting a person incarnate into this life, if he is already headed to hell? …


So too answer your question, I believe we are not predestined to be heading anywhere, because through what I explained above, God essentially leaves us, with our own freewill.




Originally posted by Akragon
And while even Jesus mentioned Hell, he did not mean a place of torture where you'll burn for eternity.


I agree with you that Hell is not a place where ones burns for all eternity. Just based on the biblical scriptures alone, Hell is the “second death”.

So to be alive spiritually forever suffering punishment; would mean that God was lying in Genesis, when He said “…for when you eat of it you will surely die” etc Of course from the Christian perspective this is not just talking about physical death entering the world, but also about being cut off from God as well, which includes spiritual death, i.e. “The second death”

I know you have done many Threads now on Hell…but I’m kinda curious… what do most of Jesus metaphors/words around Hell, mean to you?


- JC



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by drivers1492
 


God is more than just man, he is the birds and the fish, man and woman, trees and bushes, planets and the stars, he is everything that can be seen and he is the thing which sees everything. God is us experiencing himself.
edit on 11-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


Man is its strong arm; think- the Jesuits misappropriated by the Papacy I see ourselves as Gods Marines ; to experience that which it cannot as its realm is not 3D; yet let its prodgeny bring the tales and stories back it IT. You are all IAMS; the strange thing about it all is the 'freewill' aspect. It is not a John Stuart Mill deal its more this: "You Humans; All That You Must Do Is To Recognize Yourselves As God Incarnate."





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