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How is Christianity monotheistic?

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posted on May, 7 2003 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by krossfyter

Originally posted by abstract_alao
Would God was the feet of a man.

John 13:12-17

So when he had washed their feer, taken His garments, and sat down again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? You call me Teahers and Lord, and you say well, for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, thatyou should do as I have done to you. Most assuredlt, I say to you, a servent is not greater than his master; Nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them.

Jesus ( which was his title, some say his name was Yosha bin Yosuf) was humbling himself right here.



whats your point? just curious.




Well if you looked at what I outlined in bold and Italic I think it would be clear. Obviously it wasn't.. my bad. The title of Lord wasnt just used for Jesus. In fact in ancient England the title was used for all sorts of rich men. Anyway... I think that Jesus was humbling himself because he knew that soon he would die.

Every human being goes through a journey of self. Jesus was no exception. Toward the end of his life he was giving more praise to God and lees to him self. I he himself really thought he was God he wouldnt of wash the feet of his disciples. It was a very sincere gesture. He was making peace not only with them but also the person that was going to betray him.

I believe that Jesus was a great man and was a lot closer to God than many men will ever reach. But he still separated him self from God as in the passage above.

As far as the trinity It might be kinda valid. If you look at it as a triangle with the highest point being God the Father and the two lower points being the Holy Ghost and Jesus. But the Father is still at a higher point than the lower two. Kinda like the capstone of the pyramid. I respect you in you belief because you come at me in a respectable way krossfyter. I just hope that you view me the same way. Same goes for you to Mr. Crown. You are one of the few conservatives that I respect. You are strong in your beliefs. I do believe that you actually listen to what I say as I do listen to what you say.

I just have a feeling that Truth is universal. We all take different paths in this life. Our experiences make us who we are. I have been through a lot of sh*t in my life and there were times were Ive doubted that God really cared about me. However I never stoped believeing in him. Now that I reflect, I see that He was there with me all along. I see God when I look at nature and see the wind blow through the trees and when I see the grandness of mountains. Im just trying to live a humble life until My sprit leaves this body and takes that trip into the cosmos and then eventually to heaven. Im not really sure what happens when you die but Im just hoping for the best. Im rambling now.... sorry yall.

God bless those who try to find the way and if we cant I hope he forgives us for being lost.



[Edited on 7-5-2003 by abstract_alao]




posted on May, 7 2003 @ 07:37 PM
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Jesus Christ as the SON of man...........He humbled Himself as a servant to show us that we can live like He did and that God the Father is greater then He on earth as a Son of God.............

And there is no four .....in the God head.........there is countless times mention of the Trinity in the Bible , but for some reason people cannot see that............

The Word was made flesh................
In the beginning was the ''Word.............'''Logos'''


The Gospel according to Saint John....6:33,
33//''For the bread of God is He which cometh down from heaven , and giveth life.
34//Then said they unto Him , Lord , evermore give us this bread.
35///And Jesus said unto them ,
''I am the bread of life :
he that cometh to me shall never hunger ;
and he that beleiveth on Me
shall never thirst .
36///But I said unto you ,
That ye also have seen Me ,
and beleive not.
37///All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me;
and him that cometh to Me
I will in no wise cast out.
38///For I came down from heaven ,
not to do mine own will ,
but the will of Him that sent Me .
39/// And this is the Father's will
which has sent Me ,
that of all which He hath given Me
I should lose nothing ,
but should raise it up again at the last day
40/// And this is the will of Him that sent Me ,
that every one which
seeth the son
and beleiveth on Him ,
may have everlasting life:
and I will raise Him up at the last day.


41///The Jews then murmured at Him ,
because He said ,
'''I AM THE BREAD which came down from heaven.
42/// And they said ,
Is not this Jesus ,
the son of Joseph,
whose father and mother we know?
how is it then that He saith ,
I came down from heaven?
43///Jesus therefore answered and said unto them ,
Murmer not among yourselves.
44/// No man can come to Me ,
except the Father
which hath sent Me draw Him:
and I will raise Him up at the last day.(eg..resurrection...)
45///It is written in the prophets ,
And they shall be taught of God.
Every man therefore that hath heard ,
and hath learned of the Father ,
cometh unto Me.
46///Not that any man hath seen the Father,
save he which is of God ,
He hath seen the Father.
47///Verily , verily , I say unto you,
He that beleiveth on Me hath everlasting life.
48/// I AM THAT BREAD OF LIFE.
49///Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness , and are dead.
50/// This is the bread which cometh down from heaven ,
that a man may eat thereof ,
and not die.
51/// I AM THE LIVING BREAD
which came down from heaven:
If any man eat of this bread(Body....foretaste of heaven)
he shall live forever:
and the bread that I will give is my flesh,
which I will give for the life of
the world....


See , When you put down a verse from the Bible , you have to put down all those before and after to get the meaning...............

When Jesus Speaks of Will ...it is two natures,
Christ is still but one person, which are inseperable , and indivisible united,
/////6th ecumenical council...........we confess in the one and the same Christ
two natures and
two natural operations[energies] indivisibly , inconvertably, inseperably and unconfusedly;
and two natural wills,
not contrary to one another,
but His human will
follows the divine
neither resistingly
nor reluctantly,
but rather as subject to His divine and omnipotent will
''''''O Father ,
if it be possible ,
let this cup pass from Me:
nevertheless not as I will,
but as thou wilt ....thy will be done ''''[Matthew 26:39 ,42 ]
The human will is expressed with the words:
'''let this cup pass from Me''''
The divine will , one and the same with the will of the Father is expressed by the phrase :
''''nevertheless not as I will
but as thou wilt '''
And immediately the human will submitted to the divine :
'''''thy will be done ''''
Christ is perfect God,
our divine redeemer ,
and perfect man;
Godman and as Godman sinless [Heb. 4 ,15; 9 , 28 ]



posted on May, 7 2003 @ 08:16 PM
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I think it's strange when Judaism, who fathered Christianity, rejects Christianity. That should tell you everything you need to know. Judaism= monothestic and Christianty simply is not.

Even if you believe in three persons in one God, you still believe in THREE persons, hence your worship three persons. What happenes when a Christian prays to Jesus and he doesnt get what he wants, so he figures he'll try praying to God this time because he might get "luckier" That's not monotheisctic to me.



posted on May, 7 2003 @ 08:37 PM
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The trinity is based on older pagan traditions of a trinity mother: Maiden, Mother, Hag type thing, corresponding with the pahses of the moon. the trinity concept was one of birth, maturity, then death. Every culture in history had one. Most were moon related, although the Slavs had one based on sun worship.

Catholics certainly arent monothiestic, look at the multitude of sainst they placate and light candles to. Sainst, in some cases, never existed as actualy humans, but were more than lilkely old pagan gods who were revamped to be subservient to the new god, and written into history to make them realistic figures. examples: St bride of Kildare in Ireland (appears to be the christianized celtic goddess bridgit), St George of England (might be a real figure who was combined with the Teutonic Nordic god Thor), St Oswald of Sweden (might be old Odin himself). And of course, the revernce of the virgin Mary is a layover of earlier religions who worshiped some sort of mother type goddess.



posted on May, 7 2003 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


The trinity is based on older pagan traditions of a trinity mother: Maiden, Mother, Hag type thing, corresponding with the pahses of the moon. the trinity concept was one of birth, maturity, then death. Every culture in history had one. Most were moon related, although the Slavs had one based on sun worship.

Catholics certainly arent monothiestic, look at the multitude of sainst they placate and light candles to. Sainst, in some cases, never existed as actualy humans, but were more than lilkely old pagan gods who were revamped to be subservient to the new god, and written into history to make them realistic figures. examples: St bride of Kildare in Ireland (appears to be the christianized celtic goddess bridgit), St George of England (might be a real figure who was combined with the Teutonic Nordic god Thor), St Oswald of Sweden (might be old Odin himself). And of course, the revernce of the virgin Mary is a layover of earlier religions who worshiped some sort of mother type goddess.


Sainhood is perfectly VALID in the Old Testament............As is Prayers of the dead.........

Jewish (not all Jews) religion did not accept Jesus Christ as was foretold by Holy Scripture .................

The Trinity is not based on anything other then .........What is written in the Bible...............

It is not Tradition ...........Trinity..................
It is Truth...wholly based on the Bible..Old Testament through to the New Testament.............


And not three god's but One God ........Present in the Father..............Divine
Son...........human form
Holy Spirit......................In the form of a dove.........
.............flame , which came upon them....(Apostles)

....Born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary...............
......'''''''The WORD of GOD incarnate''''''''''the attributes of human nature , the so called blameless passions :hunger , thirst , fatigue , sleep , suffering , death .
.........possessing a body and rational soul , just as we do ,''''Yet without sin ........'''''[Heb 4 , 15 ]

''''''For it became Him ,
for whom are all things ,
and by whom are all things ,....to make the captain of their salvation perfect through
sufferings ........[Heb. 2 : 10 , 14-15 ]

'''''In a man ''.whom He has risen from the dead. For since by man[Adam] came death ,
by man [Jesus Christ ]
came also the resurrection of the dead '''[1 Cor. 15 , 21 ]
Paul say's that the Lord is the Son of God,
''''made of the seed of David
according to the FLESH''''''
[Rom.1 , 3 ]

He who '''''when the fullness of time had come ,
was born of a woman'''' and who
''''''took the form of a servant'''
became like us men''''
'''''the first born among many
bretheren ''''[Rom . 8 , 29 ]
In the Epistle to the Hebrews, the Lord calls us His '''bretheren''', because He
''''''likewise ''', '''not by fantasy , or illusion but in truth '' became man .
''''''He partook of
flesh and blood ''''''[Heb. 2 , 14 ]
And precisely because He assumed our flesh ,
He assumed all the natural and blameless passions:as i stated above.............


Sin is not natural to man...........'''Nor was it sown into us by the Creater , but by the '''devil'''
during man's transgression .(GENESIS ]
The devil by deceit sowed within us sin ,
and sin captured our rational nature.....

'''The Logos [Word] takes as His own,
human attributes,
for they belong to His sacred flesh , and
He imparts to His flesh HIS own [divine ] attributes ......

Holy Scripture on the Sinlessness of Christ..........
''''''''In Him is no sin ''''''''''''[1 John 3 , 5 ]
and He '''''did no sin ,
neither was guile found in His mouth '''''[1 Peter 2 , 22 ]
and that He was the Lord ,
'''tempted like as we are ,
yet without sin '''[Hebrews 4 , 15 ]
And He could ask the Pharasees ''''''Which of you convinceth Me of sin ?''''''''''[John 8 , 46 ]



[Edited on 8-5-2003 by helen670]



posted on May, 7 2003 @ 09:38 PM
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helen= truth



posted on May, 7 2003 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by Illmatic67
helen= truth


Illmatic.......are you claiming I'm someone besides who i am???



posted on May, 7 2003 @ 09:46 PM
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Missing the point Helen.

The other trinity myths PREDATE the bible by thousands of years. Hell most of the bible was taken from local myths in the middle east. The flood taken from the older Babylonian epic of Gilgamesh, the Garden of eden and the temptations taken from old myths of Innana and Ea. The bible was written several hundred years after many earlier civilizations wrote thier stuff, so it was, much like roman myths from greek, copied by the nomadic Hebrews who were most likely in Awe of the cosmopolitian super empires of Babylonia and Egypt with thier complex religions and stories. (theres two more crusicifed saviors that predate Christ right there: osiris in Egypt and Innana in Babylon. Tho not techinically nailed to crosses, both were scarificed by treacher and later resurrected to bring light into the world, in one form or another, and both myths predate the jesus myth by thousands of years, like Krishna and Mithrias.)



posted on May, 7 2003 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by helen670

Originally posted by Illmatic67
helen= truth


Illmatic.......are you claiming I'm someone besides who i am???



No, the correct question is; "What do you mean?"



posted on May, 7 2003 @ 10:05 PM
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hmmmmmmmmmmm

I dont know???

Maybe im just tired!!!

Truth.....another person on A.T.S forums???

or have i not understood what
helen........Truth


Ok .......what is it then.........illmatic ???



posted on May, 7 2003 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by helen670
hmmmmmmmmmmm

I dont know???

Maybe im just tired!!!

Truth.....another person on A.T.S forums???

or have i not understood what
helen........Truth


Ok .......what is it then.........illmatic ???


Well, Helen, I really don't know why there was so much cardboard. My guess is because everyone else was doing the same thing, I just wanted to create something that was the opposite. Cardboard is a strange thing, and they're afraid to touch it. No one has yet had the GUTS, to make a show about cardboard.

That's how I managed to erase all humor from the show and make it dead serious basically. The show also achieved a special feeling of heaviness which was pulling me down really strong, kind of like a collapsing effect.

Using pop icons I've managed to make the show humorous all the way along, and the reason the show was so light is because that's what we are, and that's what we prefer everyone to be. That is why the show has an effect of being just light as the air.

Peace.



posted on May, 7 2003 @ 10:44 PM
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??????????

I dont understand what you are trying to tell me???


I was refering to Illmatic on his thread.......
I might have misunderstood his thread.......

What cardboard???

Pop ups???

sorry Another-one.....i dont get that???



posted on May, 8 2003 @ 07:47 AM
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"You think that you, a mere human, is going to contradict anything the Holy Spirit has led me to understand"

Though you addressed this to Abstract (and let me state for the record, that I don't think Christians are stupid....I just want them (and other adherents of organized religions) to step back and really examine the tenets of their faith)...I'm not trying to contradict anything the Holy Spirit has said, but instead, point out where the Holy Spirit contradicts itself, in it's own book...


This thread has sparked a lot more interesting comments than I initially thought...



posted on May, 8 2003 @ 08:32 PM
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truth was a Christian fanatic like you are helen, that's why I made the comparison.

Also, you two have very, very, very similar styles in writing. So I put two together and made the assumption. Exuse me if I'm wrong.



posted on May, 8 2003 @ 11:56 PM
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illmatic.......im not a ''fanatical Christian'' !!!

I enjoy Reading up on religion........does that make me a fanatic???
And posting what i post is what i enjoy........
I enjoy listening to others speak of their religion......
(i asked how muslims see the end of times? and instead it became a '''verse'' throwing argument....

I cannot for the life of me understand why someone would be called ''Fanatic'' just because i posted in the religion and Spiritualism '' thread...I posted what i know of as ''Truth'' i did not force it down any ones throat!!!

Does writing about ALIENS''' make someone a ''''ALIEN FANATIC???
Or writing about the War..........''A War Fanatic???
i dont think so!!!

And so,.........
like everyone else here on A.T.S ..........each thread is an experience .........You are not forced to read up on it or to reply .............. i dont consider myself any more fanatic then '''I Guess'' any other person here.......
I dont claim to know everything........
I dont claim to be all good..............

Why do you call '''Truth''(A.T.S.user ) a fanatic???
He only posts of what he knows of as being the truth............

Illmatic........you can think and beleive what you want.......it is your personal opinion......



posted on May, 9 2003 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
Here we have two deities (God and Satan) battling it out...we have a Demigod (as Jesus is the son of God and Mary...see Hercules, Perseus, etc.), and a veritable heirarchy of other deities (demons, angels, archangels, etc.). In what way is Christianity monotheistic (and don't try that Father/Son/Holy Ghost crap, as it still doesn't address the others)?


A follower of Christ is monotheistic, the Church is polytheistic. Catholicism has more in common with Ba'alism than Judaism I think. Strict Judaism was the way of Jesus. Most of the doctrines of the Catholic Church has come as a result of really bad research and understanding of Judaism. Good Friday for instance. Jesus was already dead on Good Friday and couldn't have been killed on a holy day. He had already been dead for nearly two days. And he had already learned to speek when the Catholics say he was born. Their lacking understanding and pagan ways led them further and further astray and resulted in the persecution of the Jews and the others who followed the way of Jesus. Catholicism was the tool the church used to gain control over the kingdoms of Europe and take over the Roman Empire
Catholicism has been more about Mammon and worldly power, than about God and the coming of Messiah. If you read Jewish mystical writings about the Messiah, we learn that he is fourfold, not threefold


The Church probably wanted more action or something. They were bored with the truth so they had to forge and shape it to fit their original pagan ways. Disgusting if you ask me


If they believed in God they would never have done the things they have.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 9-5-2003 by mikromarius]



posted on May, 9 2003 @ 07:42 AM
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You're saying you believe in Christ and God? How is that then any more monotheistic than Catholicism? Do you not also believe that Satan exists? See? You're still in the same trap...even if you throw out the demons, angels, etc. Bottom line...it's a pantheon...



posted on May, 9 2003 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
You're saying you believe in Christ and God? How is that then any more monotheistic than Catholicism? Do you not also believe that Satan exists? See? You're still in the same trap...even if you throw out the demons, angels, etc. Bottom line...it's a pantheon...


There's a difference between worshipping and believing or obeying. Jesus is my King and and Lord, the personification of God who is the Creative Forces behind everything created. Jesus is not God, for God is invisible, but God lives between me as a believer and Jesus as my King in Heaven. When I believe in Jesus being the King of Heaven and Earth, him who sits on the throne, Love lives between us. And God is Love, something spiritual, but he also has a conciousness and is intelligence. I don't worship dead people called saints by mortal sinners or worldly institutions. Neither do I worship the gods (angels or sons of God, among them, Jesus). I obey my King's commands as good as I see fit and this makes me try harder and harder to get to knowing God, but I worship Love alone. Other things I don't worship are images, idols, statues, winds, spirits, buildings, stones, trees, popes or priests. God alone shall you worship. I hope this wasn't too many words to explain something very simple.

blessings,
Mikromarius



posted on May, 9 2003 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by mikromarius

Originally posted by Gazrok
Here we have two deities (God and Satan) battling it out...we have a Demigod (as Jesus is the son of God and Mary...see Hercules, Perseus, etc.), and a veritable heirarchy of other deities (demons, angels, archangels, etc.). In what way is Christianity monotheistic (and don't try that Father/Son/Holy Ghost crap, as it still doesn't address the others)?


A follower of Christ is monotheistic, the Church is polytheistic. Catholicism has more in common with Ba'alism than Judaism I think. Strict Judaism was the way of Jesus. Most of the doctrines of the Catholic Church has come as a result of really bad research and understanding of Judaism. Good Friday for instance. Jesus was already dead on Good Friday and couldn't have been killed on a holy day. He had already been dead for nearly two days. And he had already learned to speek when the Catholics say he was born. Their lacking understanding and pagan ways led them further and further astray and resulted in the persecution of the Jews and the others who followed the way of Jesus. Catholicism was the tool the church used to gain control over the kingdoms of Europe and take over the Roman Empire
Catholicism has been more about Mammon and worldly power, than about God and the coming of Messiah. If you read Jewish mystical writings about the Messiah, we learn that he is fourfold, not threefold


The Church probably wanted more action or something. They were bored with the truth so they had to forge and shape it to fit their original pagan ways. Disgusting if you ask me


If they believed in God they would never have done the things they have.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 9-5-2003 by mikromarius]


Everytime you post it is very informative.

Keep up the good work



posted on May, 9 2003 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by helen670
illmatic.......im not a ''fanatical Christian'' !!!



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