Why America is Severely Broken - Meet Alice Walton

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

You're still not getting what is happening...you continue talking of getting more skills.

Lets dissect this: So you get more skills at the cost of going to school. In return you expect to be rewarded with a job that pays pretty well. In the past that was how it worked. Now, you go to school, incur that debt, enter the job market and employers are telling you they only want to pay you $10 per hour for your skills. Your skills which 10 years ago assured you $50 per hour.

I already gave up on your last post...That is why I said you win... You sound very young... I have no reason to win or loose...

To dissect first you must understand that school does not equate to skill. You go to school to get an education you work to get skills. You must start with one or the other, or get one or the other sometime early in your life. By the time you are mid 30s you better have both....AND NOW YOU ARE JUST STARTING!!!!

That is the first step to success....SHHhhh don't tell anyone....especially the 99%ers who got all that skill in college.

Day one out of college into a 100k per year job? Even for a engineer, lawyer, doctor etc ..that is funny. The problem is EVERYONE now has a degree in bla bla bla that is worth zero well ok worth a little more than a high school degree. You drink the cool aid and get 50k in debt with the promise from YOUR SCHOOL there will be a great job waiting for you with the crappy degree they give you...there is no great job, so once again who is at fault the employer or the school, or you since you believed their crap without actually looking to see if there are jobs waiting?

The funny part is if you went the other route and worked as a plumber's apprentice making low wages for two years AND did a good job you would have that nice job...see that skill education thing again? So now you're a plumber for 10 years and you want your own company and so you work on a business degree and you get it and your own plumbing company.....see how the education/skill thing works down the road? As I said you just started and the rest is all on your shoulders to succeed.

You tell them screw them, and they say SCREW you! They CAN find someone who will do that job you qualify for and only pay them $10 per hour! So here you are unemployed AND with additional debt!

I can't imagine what job skills you have that can't be outsourced. Give it time and it will....

Why hire you for 50 when I can get a high schooler for 10 AND DO JUST AS GOOD OF A JOB AS YOU CAN!

I do understand your point, I really do....but we must give companies an incentive to pay you more...why should they pay you more? Why are you worth more...is also the question? What do you provide to the company for 50 per hour that they do not get from the 10 per hour person?

At some point it is on you to make yourself valuable to the market.

I have about 25 years of training along with my education and you walk in with just education...how are you going to do my job for less?

edit on 7-1-2013 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

Naw, you're STILL not getting it...

There are many people who have taken the path you have taken and they are still hurting because of greed and Capitalism. By the way I'm not too young either, been practicing my craft for 20 years.

I'll take what you state and show you the err:

I have about 25 years of training along with my education and you walk in with just education...how are you going to do my job for less?

What you have just done is make yourself unattractive to employers at this current time. You have 25 years experience meaning you're not too young and easily trainable for how THAT particular company wants things done, set in your ways. On top of that, with your education and experience you expect a salary they NO LONGER have to pay because the bubble our standard of living was floating on has burst.

I understand where you are coming from and it's the way it HAD been for years, but companies are now using the Walmart model for employment. You state so yourself above, "why hire you for 50 when I can get a high schooler for 10".

The same way walmart is supplying us with crap because they CAN, the same way employers are hiring crap because they can.

Originally posted by The Old American

You might say people are not forced to work for Walmart but since they put American Manufacturing out of business - jobs are gone ans yes they are forced to work in the only place in town.

WalMart is a retail store, not a manufacturer. They didn't put anyone out of business in the manufacturing sector.

Not at all accurate...Walmart has numerous factories in China making products that used to be made by Americans in America...Walmart has has clothing companies in China and Indonesia making clothes that used to be made by American manufacturers...

I'd like to see tariffs put on everything not made in the U.S...And what really bugs me is that I pay more for a can of Pennsylvania Dutch mushrooms processed and canned in China than I did when they were made in the U.S.A...

Originally posted by White Locust
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

Let's dissect this. Dad had a lot of debt, but doesn't now. He socks away a lot of money for his kid in a 529 plan so said kid doesn't have a lot of debt upon graduation. Many of the problems with the kids these days is they put the cart before the horse.

I'll explain what a major problem is:

A major problem with our society and economy right now is we ahve been inflating our prices and what we expect for our services for years! This can be highlighted with the recent investigation they did into China bootlegging the headphones called Beats by Dre.

Beats by Dre headphones are headphones by a rapper/producer that sell for $150 to $300. What China has done is counterfeit the headphones and shipped a large shipment to the states where they sold for $20 to $40. They look and perform almost exactly like the real headphones, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. A friend of mine took a pair of his fakes to Radio Shak and they compared the fakes with the real.

Do you see the problem here? Why are the originals selling for as much as they do? Simply because they have a name attached to them? They don't perform any better than the fakes. They don't look better than the fakes, so what gives Dre the gonads to price his so high? His aren't manufactured in the states either...they're manufactured in China alongside the fakes. So he can't say that his cost more to produce.

This is an example of what is crippling America...GREED! People trying to squeeze as much profit as possible from consumers! Consumers are getting sick of it and are rebelling.

The same is happening in other industries and aspects of our economy. EVERYTHING has been inflated beyond it's worth because people are trying to get much more than their product is worth. Now this worked fine for years because people HAD the money to buy this hyper-inflated stuff, and they didn't have as much a choice.

We are about to be brought back down to Earth, the consumers and the sellers. Look at the housing market, houses are selling for a fraction of what they once were.

reply to post by XXX777

Alice Walton is better than you and you are a sore loser.

hahahahahhahahaha,
toooo freakin funny ... lol:

let's get a few things straight, shall we ?
aside from your off the cuff nonsense, Alice Walton is a killer and a drunk.

i am neither.

Alice Walton is a murderer, in life, in business and directly resulting from her personal pleasures.

she does and will have more 'financial value' than i'd ever care to, however, she will NEVER be, how'd you say it ... "better than me"

reply to post by The Old American


Wrong! Walmart buys much of it product from China. The same products that could be made in the USA are now being made in China due to the poverty level wages paid in that country. I work in the manufacturing industry in an area formerly in the top 5 manufacturing locales in the country. I have watched company after company close due to jobs going south of the border and to Asia. So yes, Walmart has caused part of this and no the owners of Walmart shouldn't hoard their money the way they do while failing to provide a living wage to their employees.
I agree it is their money and they can do as they please but I think we need a little reality here. Who could possibly NEED 20 billion dollars?? It is a travesty that this happens in this country.

reply to post by sconner755

hmmmm, think so do ya ?
i'm surprised you are dismissing the direct effects of NAFTA
why ??

anybody know "how well" WalMart was doing BEFORE Nafta ??
i do and it wasn't the WallyWorld you know today.

i'd describe it more like AmeriCAN land.
where did that place go ?

Wal-Mart is a modern slave owning plantation.

Just because you don't see the slaves doesn't mean they don't exist.

reply to post by iwilliam


and that's where the 'average' American CAN and SHOULD make the difference.
here's a few examples.
i have been distributing a small home-made flyer that features the "American Businesses" in our area.
some are farm related, some are craft related, some are manufacturers ... however, my neighbors now know who they are and can choose whom to support.

what many ppl are forgetting is that your neighbors, more often than not, are too busy themselves to notice IF there are 'local' and available options.
Walmart is sooooo comprehensive that it caters to the LAZY MIND.

some weeks, i drive a van full of neighbors to one of our 'area farms' where they can obtain a month's worth of veges for less than they can at 'walmart'. some of their savings is voluntarily offered to the gas expense.
(ie ... a community effort)

some of them still willingly shop at Walmart and some don't ... but you are right, it will take a COORDINATED effort to gain any momentum or ground in the de-establishment of the establishment.

reply to post by gangdumstyle

Thats not true, ever heard of Great Value, Walmart produces that

i sure hope this was meant as a funny cause that's how it was received

'great value' is not a "product" of consumption ... nice try though.
PS ... i produce 'Great Value' every moment i breathe ... where's my billions ??

reply to post by gangdumstyle

hmmmmm, a link to support your nonsense please ?

Most of the great value items are produced by walmart. Wal-mart DIRECTLY pays for the PRODUCTION, your wrong....

walmart does NOT manufacture ANYTHING, ever.
here's proof ... www.globalsources.com...

hint ... EVERY consumer "pays for production" ... what's your point exactly ?

reply to post by White Locust

So now, I ask you. How much money have you paid to the US that was taxed TWICE?

every dollar i've ever spent or earned ... you do the math.

reply to post by 200Plus

My favorite excuse is the the poor pay their share of taxes through "sales tax" as if the rich don't pay even more "sales tax" than the lower classes.

actually, they don't.
they do at POS, then they 'write-it-off' like "normal" Americans can't/don't ... so, it's NOT an excuse, it's the reality of the system and a classic example of the ignorance of the rest.

The entire premise of the arguement is people want a share of other peoples money.

and, that differs from what the government already DOES, how ?

reply to post by DZAG Wright

That's capitalism

NO. it's not.
That is corportism ... please learn the difference and be your own 'capitalist'.

reply to post by DZAG Wright

hmmmm, still young are ya ?

If you move from a 1500sqft home to a 15000sqft home guess what? Your electric, water, insurance and everything else will rise

too young to realize that ppl who have moved FROM 5000 sqft to a 1500 sqft home are paying MORE for the same services ... that is our current reality.

The answer is: flat tax....no loopholes.

The American citizen would figure out how much our government actually costs them personally.

reply to post by nunya13

unfortunately, this attitude became prevalent around 1982 ... not any of the 200 yrs prior.

When budget consious, most people go for value over quality

MOST ppl chose quality when it counted.
that's why you can still get a piece of wood (furniture) craftsmanship 'valued' at $100grand ... you will never see a piece of plastic generate MORE value than the amount that was paid for it and that's a fact.

even pottery, china, glass-blowing ... that used to be American produced ... isn't so much anymore but it's value certainly isn't decreasing.
(not the dollar value, practical value or the nostaligic value)

side note -- a young man from China was visiting FL over the holidays.
he desired to purchase an 'american-made' souvenir to take back to China.
much to his dismay (after exploring several retail options - including WalMart) he couldn't find a single piece that wasn't 'made in China, Taiwan, HongKong' or some other point of origin.

even in my short life-time, that's a first ;(
PS - i finally suggested he go to the local flea market and he did find several selections, albeit old but still, it's pretty bad the retailers couldn't/wouldn't provide the consumer's choice.

Originally posted by Honor93

The entire premise of the arguement is people want a share of other peoples money.

and, that differs from what the government already DOES, how ?

The government is not an individual. The waste billions, but in there somewhere they also provide services through taxation. The individual does not provide public services.

I am not rich, I am actually a step above homeless. I hate defending them as they are leeches and many did not earn what they have. But I do not think I am entitled to someone elses wealth. Why does anyone feel that way?

Lets say you make $4000 a month and have $2500 in bills. Why are you entitled to keep the other $1500? You don't need it. If your neighbor makes $700 a month and has $2000 in bills, you should give your extra to him. (Not you in paticular Honor, I mean "you" in a general sense)

The rich simply have what it takes to make money and that is more money. They can hire people to find them tax shelters and loopholes. However, as long as a person can pay $0 in taxes and get $10k as a tax refund, the lower classes have no room to talk about unfair tax rates.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
The funny part is if you went the other route and worked as a plumber's apprentice making low wages for two years AND did a good job you would have that nice job...see that skill education thing again? So now you're a plumber for 10 years and you want your own company and so you work on a business degree and you get it and your own plumbing company.....see how the education/skill thing works down the road? As I said you just started and the rest is all on your shoulders to succeed.

You don't need to know the trade to start that kind of business,
you hire someone with the knowhow and have him advize you.
I've seen kids as young as 20 make houndreds of thousands in
revenue this way. The only problem is initial capital investment
and finding reliable workers.

Why hire you for 50 when I can get a high schooler for 10 AND DO JUST AS GOOD OF A JOB AS YOU CAN!

Maybe because the highschool dropout pothead didn't show that he is willing to give his 100%
in life and will be a a bad asset to you, maybe even a liability, down the road,
while the guy with the university degree showed, oh, I don't know, responsibility,
perseverance and maturity? Some call this professionalism.
And, I beg to differ, I seriously doubt anyone with a highschool degree can do
things like, umm, accounting or finance properly. Just a few examples there.

reply to post by OOOOOO


Your statement in a nut shell.

"It's okay for her comapny to exploit people because she built a museum."

Seriously?

I am an American product manufacturing engineer. "Buying American" for our parts and products is IMPOSSIBLE. We would be out of business in weeks. The reason? Our domestic vendors. I get minimum 3 competitive quotes when i am about to "open tooling" at the term goes for making large plastic molds. My Last project 2011

China cost? $6,500.00. Domestic US cost? $65,000.00. And salesmans response? You get what you pay for. This is good American product. $60,000 better?? funny, that mold has performed flawlessly now for years. " American made"? Noway, Sorry. We are a business, not a charity.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to bring back and build up american manufacturing, But I refuse to pay that companies 6 salesman, 6 Execs and Gen. Manager. More guys up in the offices than on the floor cutting my molds. Charity is fine. Big houses, RV's, Mega TV screens and boats I will NOT pay. My $6,500 feeds 10 families with kids in China for a year.

My $65,000 to "buy American" pays an Obscene mortgage or two(made in america), a vacation (maybe in america), or a new boat (probably made in china or at least from all Chinese components).

Sorry, America needs to "retool" if they want my tooling money.