Why Atheists are Unrelenting

Originally posted by LPOPranger
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Who is we? You and imawilan?? I sent you several post and agreed with you on several points; but you did not reply. I only answered imawilan questions/statements. So.....it is okay for imawilan to jump in and flame me, but when I respond it is not okay? I NEVER ask this person for an opinion; I was addressing you and they jumped in with the "Grandpa" crap not me.

Unless I missed something, this was your first reply to me, and if you don't see how this is the mother of all flames I don't know what to tell ya, except that I cleared away the garbage in it to find your logic.

You must be very young and full of what someone has told you. I would bet the farm you have NEVER been in combat or feared for your life; because you would not take this line. I have been with many "Atheists" in combat and it only lastest for about one patrol and that was it! The will be praying to a srtick of wood or a rock before it is said and done. Talk you crap and try and convience yourself you are right but in the back of your mind will be that little doubt and it will overwhelm you in your moment of death or the possibility of death. I would also guess you are a 20 something that don't know a hole in the groound from his A$$hole???? I've seen people like like who talk a good game until it is time to check out and you are the FIRST one to ask for help to find God. I only wish you the best and really don't care what you have to say in return; I have seen thousands like you and they all beilieved in something when the reality of death was upon them. It is easy to be a "Keyboard Commando" and talk you dribble when there is no price to pay. I would venture to guess that you have lived a very sheltered life with Mommy and Daddy or they bank role you; even though you are why beyond the age of resposibility. I would love to take a person like you into combat and watch you pee down your leg in the first fire fight! You would change you dog tags from Atheist to what ever you could find real quick. Talk your smack if it makes you feel better; and I will not say another word except at the end of it all when you draw you final breath you will change your position on what you say here; I have seen it too many times and it is ALWAYS the same.

Anyhow, did you just want to mock me, or all of humanity?

reply to post by MagnificentTongue


Oh no, neither. I was sarcastic about one of your ideas, not you personally. You are obviously quite intelligent and I'm enjoying our chat. But, even bloody geniuses can sometimes come up with whoppers.

I have observed through scripture and believed from a lot of vetting of ideas and theories and religions and opinions and arguments and laws and equations, that God is good

While you look for some logic in the bible (and every believer does this), you completely ignore or blindly justify the atrocities attributed to this god. Is it good that a god would kill all of the first born of Egypt because of a spoiled little pharaoh? What happened to this god being a personal god?

Is it sane that a god would order a man to kill his own son, and then turn around and pretty much say, "Hey, I'm kidding!"

Atheist saying that there is no God is the same as they saying a closed box is 'definitely' empty because nobody has seen whats inside!!
.
Atheism is an active denial.
Interestingly they come to that conclusion by observing theists.
.
Whats more absurd, that a thing has a maker or that in a hot desert, sand and maybe lightning caused a working phone to pop into existence?
Atheist are unrelenting because their stance is active denial(definitely not) not a passive skeptism(maybe).

reply to post by logical7

Atheist saying that there is no God is the same as they saying a closed box is 'definitely' empty because nobody has seen whats inside!!

Then please, open the box and pull out your "God". I know some people who would be very interested in having a little...eh, chat with him.

Atheism is an active denial.
Interestingly they come to that conclusion by observing theists.

By observing the CLAIMS of theists, actually. I'm not an atheist, but I can understand where they are coming from.

Whats more absurd, that a thing has a maker or that in a hot desert, sand and maybe lightning caused a working phone to pop into existence?

According to you, the sand and lightning ARE the maker. That, to me, is absurd, considering a working phone composed of electrified sand is probably not the most reliable device. Speaking of unreliable...

Atheist are unrelenting because their stance is active denial(definitely not) not a passive skeptism(maybe).

I will freely admit that passive skepticism is a more healthy approach, considering they cannot disprove "God" anymore than you can prove him. I have said before, and will say again, that an agnostic approach is the most realistic approach the spiritually illiterate man can take.

Of course, laziness is no excuse for atheism.

reply to post by backcase


Here lies another problem with fundies..

Things that they should be taking credit for, for doing themselves, they give to someone else, real or imagined.

Quite a shame really.

reply to post by nixie_nox

Here lies another problem with fundies..

Things that they should be taking credit for, for doing themselves, they give to someone else, real or imagined.

Quite a shame really.

Self-degradation. The first step to curbing spirituality is convincing you that you have no power in and of yourself. The second step is convincing you that in order to have power, you must sell your soul.

Wow. You know, Christians aren't a whole lot different from Satanists. Satanists are just a hell of a lot more honest about what they want out of life. You can bet the Christian population would dramatically decrease if they found out that compassion was a sin or something like that.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

According to you, the sand and lightning ARE the maker. That, to me, is absurd, considering a working phone composed of electrified sand is probably not the most reliable device. Speaking of unreliable...

not according to me, but according to atheist.
If i see a phone in desert, i'l think that someone dropped it.
I guess you took my example completely wrong.
I agree with you that agnostic view is more correct than atheism.

reply to post by logical7


Oh, I see. No, you're talking about products that can't form of their own volition. Atheists, regarding evolution, are describing the developmental process of biological organisms that reproduce and carry genetic tools capable of adjusting their structure to suit the environment they are living in. Organic materials tend to do that.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I always say, and it has yet to be refuted, that Satanists are Christians. Can't believe in Satan without believing in Christ.

You said it better than I did. It is a removal of self worth.

it drives me crazy when I see a talented person Thank GOD for their opportunity. No, it was the 8 hours of training, the strict diet, the nightlong practises, that got YOURSELF where you are. God had nothing to do with it.

It is very sad.

reply to post by nixie_nox


It's not even that. It's the fact that they have to rely on an outside source of strength instead of making it on their own steam. I understand that it's a practice of humility, but it doesn't make sense that you should practice humility towards a being that doesn't practice humility itself.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by logical7

 

Oh, I see. No, you're talking about products that can't form of their own volition. Atheists, regarding evolution, are describing the developmental process of biological organisms that reproduce and carry genetic tools capable of adjusting their structure to suit the environment they are living in. Organic materials tend to do that.

you know the idea of irreducible complexity?
Even a tiny bacterium has cilia that helps it move and they are perfect little motors, remove any tiny part of that tiny machine and it fails, so did the whole machine evolve suddenly? Because gradual evolution doesnt explain it. Why would a bacteria carry a useless incomplete cilia hoping all the parts to appear ultimately to make it finally work?

Atheism is an idiot's belief as much as any other religion is.

reply to post by Murgatroid


Well that is one of the dumbest things \i've heard in this thread.

How can my "lack of belief in the existance of the spaghetti monster" be a belief ?

Generally an athiest (using the term loosely) does not make the claim "I believe that fairies do not exist" rather-
" I do not believe fairies exist"

One can then quite simply base ones' lack of belief upon the sheer lack of evidence.


It never ceases to amaze me the the mental gymnastics and crainial contortions the supersticious will go through in order to rationalize their own irrational way of thinking.

Not believing is not believing

Bald is not a hair colour

There seem to be several streams of Atheism in this day and age.

It is another alternative religion otherwise it wouldn't have a label, people would simply be happy to label themselves as "those that are not religious".

You have a strand of folks who preach science (as their belief) and refuse to consider subjects like spirituality, meta-physics and god conciseness...and this is perfectly fine, I have a good number 'factual here-and-now friends' and I respect their views.

Then you have a strand who are the simply against any religion and will attempt to block and derail any discussions, refusing to be courteous and allowing the other person to air their view (no matter how wrong they believe it is), they tend to lack any kind of compassion and will block any intelligent conversation or alternative views (thus creating an imbalanced scenario instead of a balanced argument).

And finally you have the "Life-Before-Death" who believe the span of their lives is all there is so they believe they should experience as much of life as possible and feel alive by doing stuff like jumping out of planes (just so they can feel their heart beat for a few seconds). These are usually the younger generation indoctrinated by their environment, immersed in technology and the next gen ideas they live for the moment (not really giving a crap about anything else around them).

I have generalised a lot here, there are good people in all walks of life, that is a fact and I tend to hold a percentage of each of the above views, being religious myself, I am also a System Architect and therefore love technology and engineering but...I have this spiritual side that balances the equation, allowing me to think outside of the box when the box itself is too small and limiting, that's where the best ideas comes from.

An Atheist, to me at least, is someone who closes their eyes and see nothing, just darkness.

While a spiritual person is someone who, when they close their eyes see the entire universe unfold before them because they are able to imagine and their imagination creates a vista that is limitless and transcends this life, even after death.

Peace

Originally posted by logical7
Atheist saying that there is no God is the same as they saying a closed box is 'definitely' empty because nobody has seen whats inside!!
.
Atheism is an active denial.
Interestingly they come to that conclusion by observing theists.
.
).

No,most atheists come to the conclusion that "the claims made by theists have no merit due to the sheer lack of evidence"

Very few atheists say "there is no god" as you claim they merely observe that you fail to provide evidence for the existance of your god, the then logical standpoint would be to not belive in the existance of your god.

We must also give strong consideration to the fact that when evidence is demanded from the theist more often than not following a great deal of religious squirming the theist wiil often end up climbing into a bucket of faith making themselves look like right wankers.

Atheists always equate the word God to religion and cannot understand the difference. Different cultures have different art, different music, cultures, gods and religion. Different religions are symbolising the same concept. This is spiritual kindergarten...if you wanna be a materialist go ahead.

reply to post by old_god


Old_God, you're a breath of fresh air in a room full of self-indulged miopics. Someone's avatar or by-line says "keep it simple but don't make it simple" with a picture of Einstein. I like that one very much.

One downside to the Internet is the dissemination of ALL information whether true or falsified on some level. Information, even that passed down from one generation to another for a couple of melinia, is inevitably subject to being warped from one generation to the next. One has to take the whole of what they see and come up with some approximation that fits their emotions and intellectual underpinnings. All too many, however, never get past the emotional part and this includes the "Spirit-Filled" and atheists alike.

I enjoy the Lloyd Pye videos on YouTube, look 'em up and you'll find quite a few, because they deal with concrete information you can touch and see. His take on the Sitchin information (had a time coming up with a descriptive for those books!) is more grounded in science than Sitchin was but still presents it as something that's worth looking in to for those that would make up their own minds.

That being said, the Bible, when taken as a history book, still has immense value to me as an answer to the question of "How Shall We Then Live?" as so many other very old religions or belief systems do. What has been done to the information contained in the Bible, however, is unconscionable in my opinion and to treat it, the King James version especially, as something that was handed down to Moses on Mt. Sinai irks me to no end. Today's Bible is the end result of the dumbing down of The Great Unwashed so that we can be much more manageable populations. Every power structure demands such a set of guidelines for their people, those that are "free thinkers" usually being dealt with like any other outside threat.

These two views I use as bookends to my take on why there seems to be so many athiests among us today. There will always be those that take offense to their perception of being told how to live by those who see the road they might be on as "the wrong way" given hundreds of years of human experience. There will also be those that, with all intellectual honesty, look at the information provided and say "this just doesn't add up!". This latter group is the one that's worth dealing with because, in reality, they're saying "more information, please". The former are satisfied with what information they have, don't want any more and delight in messing with others' heads to bring them down to their level. Sorry, but it's just the plain truth.

reply to post by old_god

While a spiritual person is someone who, when they close their eyes see the entire universe unfold before them because they are able to imagine and their imagination creates a vista that is limitless and transcends this life, even after death.

Peace

How do I explain this? It's difficult to describe the way certain people curb spiritual potential by saying, "You can only travel in this one direction." And the techniques they use to promote this one path lead to misunderstandings about spirit, perfection, and love. And when understanding is crippled in these areas, you become crippled spiritually as well. You put boundaries on your comprehension and understanding, so that you can't expand your awareness and see the big picture as it actually is.

So there's still problems with spirituality, not just lack of.

When we break it down to basics the word God can be defined as a force which is

Omniscient
Omnipotent
Omnipresent

This is a force which the scientist and the spiritualist can see clearly. The Alchemist demands that the search for the spirit be tempered with reason, yet acknowledges that it can be seen in ALL. Your mere ability to comprehend these words is evidence of the spirit in itself.

reply to post by bloodreviara

TextAnother thing i love about all this, they have been systematically attempting to ensure that their children do not receive proper science education and instead wish to teach them fantasies that are based on the bible, well all this time that's been going on a steady decline in our competitiveness with other countries in science has occurred, so what they want is to force us to lie and our education system to be utterly useless, yea, that's certain to fix the problem ::face palm::

Hello bloodreviara,

Just read your post and agree with some of what you have posted but in other aspects I believe you are misled .
Not necessarily wrong but just simply misled. I also being from a stout religious family have tinkered with many other religions and while not condemning any or all have simply no faith in their doctrines.

But to praise the scientific fields as most Americans do is not very intelligent at all. Out of 31 countries tested, America rated 25th in math and 17th in science. Yet we spend much more per student than most all countries. Then what is the matter? Some of the fault is that we have too much comfort and have passed the line of necessity. Another is that we have very poor teachers and very poor teaching standards. Unions as well as liberal minded universities share much of this blame. Universities should not be allowed to voice any other than what they are hired to teach. Most will distract their students with other avenues of life such as politics.

In the mainstream scientific field are some very important facts such as who hires most of the scientists once they enter the field. Almost all have sponsors of one sort or the other and these sponsors are the gods of paychecks. What they dictate is what is produced. Very few scientists are self financed to do as they please. In other words they belong to the good ole boy network and that is a fact. The good ole boy network is a club of sorts and this group will make or break many who seek employment. Much like the universities in America today.

In the mainstream scientific fields today you have disbelief in a Creator by percentages of -- Physics 40.8 %, Chemistry of 26.6 %, Biology of 41.0 %. -- You also have 37.6 % Sociology, 34.0 % Economics, 31.7 % Political, 27.0 % Psychology with a overall percentage of 31.2%. I have not researched the national percentages of fifty years ago with today but in all fairness I would venture to believe that those percentages would be far far less than we see them today.

What do you believe is the cause of the rise in atheism in the sciences? It certainly is not that the nation has gotten smarter. We have just seen that fact. Would it surprise you to know the main cause is what we allow to enter our culture. Think about this . Almost all who want college can now find a way to sponsor that education. Mostly by the government. We allow more ignorant people to immigrate today than in yesteryear and also allow illegal immigration to flood our schools. Most immigration does not benefit this nation and causes a decline in our Academic status. Statistics show that as the nation has morally declined from its Christian roots, so has the academia declined. Now whether or not this is a factor is yet to be seen in the years ahead simply because some nations who are far ahead of America are also not overwhelmingly and have never been Christian. So that matter has to be considered. What is your answer?

reply to post by Sublevel6

When we break it down to basics the word God can be defined as a force which is

Omniscient
Omnipotent
Omnipresent

As defined by the Judaic empire, yes. But seeing as how we are possessed of highly limited comprehension and perspective in comparison with such vast ideas, how are we we supposed to correctly define them if our understanding of them is incomplete?

This is a force which the scientist and the spiritualist can see clearly. The Alchemist demands that the search for the spirit be tempered with reason, yet acknowledges that it can be seen in ALL.

Again, the search for an idea that is defined by comparatively immature minds clinging to preconceptions in a desperate bid for a starting point. If we cast aside everything we think we know, then where are we supposed to start? Especially when we can't exactly touch it. It's no wonder we haven't isolated the exact nature of spirit.

Your mere ability to comprehend these words is evidence of the spirit in itself.

I can thank the educational board for that, not spirituality. Now, perhaps the mind and consciousness are closely related to, or even expression of, the spirit...but that's a very gray area. We can only theorize.