Piers Morgan: murder is fine. Gun related murder is wrong...

Piers has to yell and scream in an attempt to drown out an opposing view because he knows that his argument is not valid.

Piers' point is simple: gun confiscations mean fewer gun related murders. For example, the US had 8300 gun related murders, the UK had 35. So banning guns will reduce murders, right? Wrong.

In EVERY instance when guns have been banned or confiscated, the murder rate has gone UP, a point which John Lott tries to make repeatedly.

Plenty of examples to illustrate this fact: the UK, Australia, South Africa, Chicago, Washington DC etc.

So what is Piers really saying?

All he cares about are fewer gun related murders knowing damn well that the overall murder rate will skyrocket, which is fine, so long as guns arent involved...

Which again leads us to the obvious conclusion that "they" dont care about our safety. Gun control is really about people control ie disarming the citizenry.

Yeah but no where that has had guns banned had a gun murder rate as ridiculously high as the US, and they didn't have almost as many guns as citizens. You can't compare anywhere else to the US.

reply to post by gladtobehere


Didnt you know if you get killed with anything other than a gun you go to heaven but if you're killed with a gun you go to hell?

At least that's what I'm assuming must be the case. Otherwise it would mean people like Piers are just idealistic idiots and that cant be true.

The real problem is those wanting to commit MURDER will find a way to do it with ANY available tool in the shed.

reply to post by SpearMint

So you agree with Piers.

Let me ask you, why does it matter how the murder is committed? Fact is, gun bans do not reduce violent crime. Quite the opposite, which was the point of this thread...

Handgun crime in UK up despite "ban".

A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned.

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S..

Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed. Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by SpearMint

 

So you agree with Piers.

Let me ask you, why does it matter how the murder is committed? Fact is, gun bans do not reduce violent crime. Quite the opposite, which was the point of this thread...

Handgun crime in UK up despite "ban".

A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned.

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S..

Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed. Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."

I didn't even mention Piers and I don't know what he said, I was referring to what you said in the OP. In regard to what you just posted, read my last comment, other countries are irrelevant. They had low rates and not many guns to begin with, it's totally different.

Piers is a no-talent assclown. What's he even doing here? Get him a ticket home and pack his stuff. Remove him from public view. Doesn't he have a dance-off to judge somewhere?

Originally posted by Urantia1111
Piers is a no-talent assclown. What's he even doing here? Get him a ticket home and pack his stuff. Remove him from public view. Doesn't he have a dance-off to judge somewhere?

He has the same right to be there and voice his opinion as anyone else. How about a logical argument instead of low quality personal attacks, it reflects badly on you. I bet you'd be praising him if he was pro-gun.

reply to post by Urantia1111


I agree. When he was on British TV he was bearable because he generally showed people respect. Since he's gone on to US television he's been a complete arsehole and seems to just disrespect americans and rub them up the wrong way.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by SpearMint

 

So you agree with Piers.

Let me ask you, why does it matter how the murder is committed? Fact is, gun bans do not reduce violent crime. Quite the opposite, which was the point of this thread...

Handgun crime in UK up despite "ban".

A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned.

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S..

Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed. Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."

Those stats in the first article are well out of date, the article was from 2001... Gun crime rose as new avenues to bring guns into the country were made and new business with gun conversions etc made it easy for criminals to get there hands on. You got the new EU laws making it easy to bring things in, the massive increase in population and foreign criminals entering through Europe. There are big issues with the EU immigration policies that need resolving. The point... with such influxes stats are expected to go up.

The second article, 2009, doesn't have much to to with gun crime but highlights the problems the country is having with crime in general. Thankfully the homicide rate is a little more promising but it definitely highlights the overall issues related to soft policing like Anti-social behaviour orders, ASBO's are a joke.

The problem is were an over populated country which is getting worse. There is also a problem with over populated prisons so people are getting away with more. The prison issues needs sorting but with the way the economy is I cant see them building more at this point. When the prisons are sorted these soft sentences will end.

These issues have little to do with guns. In fact our gun crimes are pretty low as its easier to police, anti social, the ruling thug under class, fuelled by unemployment and immigration issues with Europe will take a little more time to fix.

Originally posted by gladtobehere

Piers' point is simple: gun confiscations mean fewer gun related murders. For example, the US had 8300 gun related murders, the UK had 35. So banning guns will reduce murders, right? Wrong.

In EVERY instance when guns have been banned or confiscated, the murder rate has gone UP, a point which John Lott tries to make repeatedly.

Plenty of examples to illustrate this fact: the UK,

Wait.. you just said:

Piers' point is simple: gun confiscations mean fewer gun related murders.- the US had 8300 gun related murders, the UK had 35. So banning guns will reduce murders, right? Wrong.

Right.. by your own admission, not Wrong.. Hmm lets see.. 8300 - 35 leaves 8265 more people who are not killed by guns in the UK.

I agree we should not ban guns. I own one myself and would never give it to those government freaks BUT I'm saying you just contradicted yourself without anything solid to back up your claim.

Now many UK folks and the anti gun people are going to love my post BUT I am calling on you to really show why you are not really contradicting yourself.. show us how the murder rate has gone up directly as a consequence of gun control. Otherwise, your argument doesn't look very convincing.

( Why did I capitalize BUT twice in the above paragraphs.. what can I say.. I like big Buts) LOL

Why don't you guys just focus on your problems instead of bullying the person who is talking about them? Is it low self esteem or just your way of hiding and handling things nowadays?

Get a grip!

btw Piers is a Numpty, much of the UK hate him too. He's a bloody television host and knows jack. He also writes for the worst trash tabloids the ones that talk sports and inlcude page 3 topless models.

I like such papers for the footy and page 3 like the next man but we take the real news in them with a pinch of salt and piers is a contributing candidate to such trash.

Dont listen to anything that comes out of that man mouth.

reply to post by SpearMint

Originally posted by SpearMint
They had low rates and not many guns to begin with, it's totally different.

I'm not sure what this means.

In every instance (regardless of which country), when guns are banned, crime goes up. Neither the country's population nor guns per capita changes this fact. Not even sure how its relevant?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by Urantia1111
Piers is a no-talent assclown. What's he even doing here? Get him a ticket home and pack his stuff. Remove him from public view. Doesn't he have a dance-off to judge somewhere?

He has the same right to be there and voice his opinion as anyone else. How about a logical argument instead of low quality personal attacks, it reflects badly on you. I bet you'd be praising him if he was pro-gun.

edit on 3-1-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

Actually he is a guest in this country and he can be requested to leave at any time. If the UK can ban Mark Levine entry due to his political opinions, it is quite appropriate for the US to ask Mr Morgan to leave because of his idiocy.

Originally posted by tdk84
These issues have little to do with guns. In fact our gun crimes are pretty low as its easier to police, anti social, the ruling thug under class, fuelled by unemployment and immigration issues with Europe will take a little more time to fix.

edit on 3-1-2013 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-1-2013 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)

So let me get this straight. When violent crime in the UK goes up, it has nothing to do with guns but violent crime in the US guns are the cause?

Originally posted by SpearMint
I didn't even mention Piers and I don't know what he said, I was referring to what you said in the OP. In regard to what you just posted, read my last comment, other countries are irrelevant. They had low rates and not many guns to begin with, it's totally different.

edit on 3-1-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

No, they are completely relevant. I know I've pointed out to you "cause and effect" as well as "correlation does not equal causation" before. You had low murder rate before your gun bans, but after the murder rate is doubled. The US had a low murder rate before gun laws (in 1910 it was equal to that of the UK) and after gun laws they are higher.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by SpearMint

 

Originally posted by SpearMint
They had low rates and not many guns to begin with, it's totally different.

I'm not sure what this means.

In every instance (regardless of which country), when guns are banned, crime goes up. Neither the country's population nor guns per capita changes this fact. Not even sure how its relevant?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's quite simple. A country drowned in guns isn't comparable to a country with few guns that had a very low murder rate BEFORE the ban. It's totally opposite situations, you cannot assume the US will see this very minimal changes in crime rate that other countries have.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by Urantia1111
Piers is a no-talent assclown. What's he even doing here? Get him a ticket home and pack his stuff. Remove him from public view. Doesn't he have a dance-off to judge somewhere?

He has the same right to be there and voice his opinion as anyone else. How about a logical argument instead of low quality personal attacks, it reflects badly on you. I bet you'd be praising him if he was pro-gun.

edit on 3-1-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

Actually he is a guest in this country and he can be requested to leave at any time. If the UK can ban Mark Levine entry due to his political opinions, it is quite appropriate for the US to ask Mr Morgan to leave because of his idiocy.

So make him leave. He has the right to speak his opinion whether you agree with him or not. I'm not even saying I agree with him, I still don't know what he said, I just have an issue with the "I disagree therefore he's an idiot and should get out of my country" attitude.

I'm sure it will continue though, due to the lack of actual rational arguments against his view, people will insult him to help convince themselves that they are right.

Piers Morgan's whole existance doesnt make sense, let alone his opinion on such a complex issue.

Remeber too, that Peirs has been in the media business for years, hes one of the biggest puppets around. Hes one of the people who does have an agenda.

The more this evolves, the more I see it been used for peoples agenda and not realy trying to sort out the real problem - Peoples mental health and attitudes towards firearms. Its like its just been covered in a smoke screen of whether or not guns should be legal or not, and that is not the issue.