Why is it that people with no knowledge of communism are so against it?

spoken like a boss.... You are absolutely correct. Spain had its elections stolen by a Marxists insurgency and then once in power it did NOTHING for the common man, even though it promised the world. The biggest issue was land reform, which the republic never touched. It wanted to simply seize the rich people´s land and give it to the poor. OK, what do you do when the poor then become the rich? These reasons were why most people of the day and long after considered the republic a failure. Only revisionist communists of our day think it was a success. You are the man.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz

This is a very good comment!
Thank you, I appreciate it. Very well said.

In the end they are all isms. I propose anarchy! The true anarchy. Not what we were taught in school.

reply to post by txjab512


That is no better. How about people decide for themselves as a people. The US likes capitalism since we have gotten used to just compensation for our labors, as well as the prospect of opening our own business if we save and sacrifice.

Even something like anarcho-capitalism would not be a good idea in the US (it is what has led us down our darkest roads) since we like to vote and establish our leadership through democratic elections....in theory....

Originally posted by NysgjerrigDame
I agree. Most so-called communists just use that fact that communism is most logical and makes the most common sense to become dictators. Examples are the USSR, cuba, North Korea, etc. But nobody ever talks about Spain before Franco's coup. I believe that unless you've read the Communist Manifesot, Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, State and Revolution: by Lenin, the Foundations of Leninism, The New Class: Djilas, Combat Liberalism (communists detest liberalism), I do not believe that you have right to talk about it. There are many more works that ought to be read on the matter. Most of ATS believes the lies of the West, but if any, those of you whom have truly studied the communist works, what is your argument against it?

edit on 2-1-2013 by NysgjerrigDame because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-1-2013 by NysgjerrigDame because: (no reason given)

I've read all of those works and I have a mother who lived under it. Communism never works for various reasons: the first and foremost is because human beings are not insects. Some are more industrious than others and some will do nothing and choose to live under the largess of others. Seeing that, more and more people will choose to be net consumers rather than net producers. Why not? If you get the same regardless of what you do, why not sit back and do nothing? Then, when there are not enough workers working, they must be coerced to work or everyone starves. Thus communism slips into totalitarianism.

Communism kills initiative and drive.
Communism kills individuality.
Communism causes scarcity.
Pure communism as envisioned by Che T-shirt wearning undergraduates is impossible to achieve.

What kind of question is that?
Obviously, anyone with little to no knowledge on any subject, will be against it...

I have lived in communism and am living the Democracy now. My country was a part of the former Yugoslavia, before the break up in 1990.

The country was more or less thriving under the Tito regime. National industry was pretty strong. Hundreds of factories dispersed all over the country. My folks and I were living much easier than today.

It was a time of social sensitivity. Profit came last. There were no dollar hungry corporations back then. Jobs were much less stressful, the pressure wasn't that high. The industry was nationalized. People's jobs and survival of the community came first. The country was producing enough to feed it's people with minimum import of goods and resources. It wasn't paradise, but it wasn't too bad to tell you the truth. We didn't have LCD's and smartphones back then, but overall...people were able live decent lives.

All that changed when Tito died in 1980. He was an authority figure. He wasn't corrupt. Respected and admired. Not like some Korean dictators liked...but truly liked. People weep for him even to this day. After he died, the West was pretty eager to break the Yugoslavia apart....

you know why? Because it worked. The system worked. But it wasn't succeptable to outside influence, which bothered many. So they made sure...

Today...living in democracy...this is the result. My country is "independent" now. 90 % percent of the national industry is destroyed. Privatization was used to extract money from whatever was left on a national level. Unemployment is always rising. But, we have Mcdonald's and KFC's now. Entering the EU now in 6 months time will crush the rest of the local industry (under the EU law).

We live on credit today. Predictions are dire. The new age democracy politicians are now stealing money left and right (our Premiere is now on trial for theft, facing 10-15 years in prison). National Industry is long gone...we depend now on import, we were ordered to import, and ordered to quash the few remaining branches of our industry, to facilitate the entrance of big west corporations...we are now...slaves.

Was communism bad? Perhaps to some, it was trampling on some individual freedoms. And perhaps I don't have the entire picture. But on thing I can tell you for sure...as far as simple living of a common man...switching to democracy gave us no progress, at least it didn't in my country.

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame


I read the communist manifesto by Marx.

Its a dream world that has no bearing on reality whatsoever.

It is a system ripe for abuse ... that is why it is always abused.

That system cannot liberate the oppressed from the oppressors because it is oppression - it takes away all individual freedom and responsibility.

It is the reliance and dependence on the State that is its weakness ...

Our system of government was created with human nature in mind. That people always seek to oppress and use others. And through the course of time (over 200+ years) our system is slowly and methodically being worn down - so that the people once again are about to live in tyranny again.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

We will have lasting peace and freedom only when people are not people ...

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame


I can say the same thing about National Socialism. Communism works great on paper, but it has been proven time and time again that Communism doesn't work. Because in the end, "some people are more equal then others".

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame

I guess just dismiss all the people that fled Communist Countries to Come here, only to tell everyone here the evils of Communism.

Yeah, so it is just not people that have not lived under it, speaking out against it.

reply to post by macman


The OP has specifically stated throughout the thread that there is no modern communist country. He or she believes that there are many countries calling themselves communist, which do not actually adhere to communist principles. He or she also believes that pre-franco spain is the closest thing to communism so far in history.

To answer the OPs question,

"Why is it that people with no knowledge of communism are so against it?"

I'd guess that is because most of them DO have a limited amount of knowledge on the subject and from the amount of knowledge they do have they find communism flawed and potentially dangerous.

No offense to the OP, but IMO, It is borderline insulting to think most people have no knowledge of communism....most people have a very rough idea.

The problem is, most have not bothered to look deeper into it than the rough idea they understand. The biggest flaw I think most see in communism is that they think workers controlling the means of production won't work based off human nature. That to me is a very valid point to debate, but to really get into the heart of it, we'd need to address deeper issues such as "what constitutes human nature?".....see this is a heavy, philosophical conversation that most just don't bother with.

I have been curious about communism ever since I was a little girl and lived in West Germany and I wondered what was behind that damn wall....What was so scary that we were fighting so hard against? Regans "evil empire" "commie reds" all that jazz...That was my introduction into the idea of communism.

Over the years I have read and researched off and on, I did read the communist manifesto in German and personally, I enjoy the German version, it is a very moving passionate document.

I think that communism in and of itself is fine....but the thing that seems to ruin communism is the government. Its the government that screwed it up in the USSR. They hijacked it from what I understand. It's kinda like they never really followed through with what Marx intended.

They got to phase 2 and never transitioned past that. So, I am highly skeptical that Marxs method is the best way to implement genuine communism. Then again, in my heart I am an anarchist, so you can see why I am weary of the "state" playing any significant role in a communist economy

reply to post by Dispo


Well then, lets just call it Progressive Communism.
Yeah, Spain is doing so great, along with Greece as well.

Any country that has wanted the ideas of Communism, as failed.

If it is not Communism, then what is it?
Alinsky has invaded so much of daily life, it is just ridiculous. .

They just cant deal with the fact that capitalism isnt perfect either, so whenever something is not working out it must be those evil commies. It cant be the capitalists getting better at taking more and more money out of the economy.

reply to post by macman


I have no idea what it is if it's not communism, all I'm saying is that the comments of a communist refugee would not alter the OP's position at all, as the OP does not believe that there is such a thing as communism in the world today.

Most so-called communists just use that fact that communism is most logical and makes the most common sense to become dictators. Examples are the USSR, cuba, North Korea, etc. But nobody ever talks about Spain before Franco's coup.

reply to post by Merinda


PFFFT - we all know capitalism isn't the end all be all, but it is a far cry better then communism.

Seems like the only argument that people have to support communism is "no country was truly communist" and the only working systems were in a time of human history where people lived in small communities.

I sure hope you guys aren't involved in sales, cause your sales pitch is terrible.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Dispo

 

Any country that has wanted the ideas of Communism, [h]as failed.

Any country who applies it successfully, or begins to show signs of doing such, gets beige-camouflage world police knocking on their doors.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Peoples idea of "thriving" varies greatly. Tito was a psychopathic murderer that lived in paranoia and fear of his own people he brutalized.

The EU is not exactly the best example to juxtapose what was and what is since it is in essence a vast socialism across the board. The evils you describe as ruining the country are not part of the capitalist economic model. They are a product of large social spending and huge government interference in all that is.

So you didn't have LCDs. So what. People in western nations don't all have them, but also don't live under brutal totalitarian regimes which seem to thrive under the guise of Communism.

That speaks volumes to me......

reply to post by Dispo


I get it.
I am not really arguing with you, just typing out loud.

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame


I know about communism and its filth. How dare you think one man can rule over millions? All men are NOT equal mentally or morally.

I much rather die free than some servant. I want a conservative republic, but that won't happen because most of this country enjoys free handouts that we cannot afford.

reply to post by LightOrange


So, it fails in the end, regardless what factors are applied, external or internal.

Failure is still failure.