Why is it that people with no knowledge of communism are so against it?

Originally posted by NysgjerrigDame
I agree. Most so-called communists just use that fact that communism is most logical and makes the most common sense to become dictators. Examples are the USSR, cuba, North Korea, etc. But nobody ever talks about Spain before Franco's coup. I believe that unless you've read the Communist Manifesot, Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, State and Revolution: by Lenin, the Foundations of Leninism, The New Class: Djilas, Combat Liberalism (communists detest liberalism), I do not believe that you have right to talk about it. There are many more works that ought to be read on the matter.

Communism does not work because it will always be dependent upon a small group of elites to run and regulate it. If not for the list you provide,I would have no right to talk about it, but you so eloquently point out the laundry list of failures that communism has suffered before you point to what you caim to be the one bright spot. Communism has always been dependent on a perge, if you will, a slaughter of the free thinkers that might stand in the way of progress. Communism is no different than fascism, pick your poison.

"Through the triumph of the world proletariat, we will create the Universal Soviet Socialist Republic with the capital in Jerusalem and we will own all the riches of the nations so that the prophesies of our holy prophets of the Talmud be fulfilled."

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame

There are many more works that ought to be read on the matter. Most of ATS believes the lies of the West, but if any, those of you whom have truly studied the communist works, what is your argument against it?

Show me one instance of communism that didn't turn out where it was fleecing the people of their money or where it didn't end up being oppressive to the point the people hated it and ended up doing more harm than good.

The only reason China hasn't had a revolution is their government have disarmed and banned owning weapons to civilians. Take a look at the Tiananmen Massacre in Beijing in 1989. Students protested over no freedom of the press, no freedom of speech, no government accountability, corruption in the government elite, limited career prospects and workers wanting control over industry. Several hundred unarmed civilians ended up dead when martial law was instituted. Clearly communism isn't working in China despite what their government owned media whats you to believe.

Do i need to point at Stalinist U.S.S.R.? I don't think i need to do that but i can if i have to.

North Korea? The people are starving to death, the government owns all the money, and they'd rather put a bloody satellite in orbit than feed their people. Communism is really working in North Korea, so much to the point Korea split in half.

So does communism really work? Nope, because communism is for the government not for the people. Republics are for the people, but even they can be corrupted which is why the founding fathers of the U.S. put the second amendment in the Constitution, because corrupt people will get into power (no matter what government) and the only time their evil little minds understand the people is when theyre staring down the barrel of a firearm.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Your entire post is countered with the OP.

Most so-called communists just use that fact that communism is most logical and makes the most common sense to become dictators. Examples are the USSR, cuba, North Korea, etc. But nobody ever talks about Spain before Franco's coup.

Originally posted by Dispo
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Your entire post is countered with the OP.

Most so-called communists just use that fact that communism is most logical and makes the most common sense to become dictators. Examples are the USSR, cuba, North Korea, etc. But nobody ever talks about Spain before Franco's coup.

I am stating my case why it doesn't work.

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame


Its not only that it doesn’t work in practice it built on the extremely dangerous ideology of utopianism. Any time a group of people believe they can create a heaven on Earth, they can (and do) justify any number of predations against people. If you believe that your actions will usher in a paradise for all mankind then ends will ALWAYS justify the means .. even if those ends are physically impossible to obtain.

You also stated that people don’t read Marx and have an uniformed opinion on the subject … well, I have read Marx and anyone political philosophy that requires acts of terrorism (“revolutionary terror” I believe its called) to simultaneously inspire the masses and cow your opponents just isnt for me.

actually feels like a classic test to see where people stand innocently before above mentioned purges...


Why communism fails?

(Those who disagree will be purged)


No amount of work will turn mud pies into pecan pies


You can teach a horse nuclear physics and and get mad when it cant respond



All those who claim to be communist are is best explained as this. Power hungry individuals who want to control everyones life and if you notice they want to make the decisions as to who gets what....

So OP what is the real motivation behind your claim?

Why would the communist need to use force to MAKE people follow them.. If it was a natural progression why use force...

I recommend a book called

Animal Farm

The novel addresses not only the corruption of the revolution by its leaders but also how wickedness, indifference, ignorance, greed and myopia corrupt the revolution. It portrays corrupt leadership as the flaw in revolution, rather than the act of revolution itself. It also shows how potential ignorance and indifference to problems within a revolution could allow horrors to happen if a smooth transition to a people's government is not achieved.

If you like it so well I recommend moving to say china so you can get a real taste of Communism

share the wealth - send the big house 100m and they will disperse it for the common good - ya right.
the big house is still the big house - dickting(sp?) the common folk.

are you living in a free country - if so - might want to live in a communist country - walk the walk.

Because they are stupid and uneducated. Sadly, we let them vote and procreate.

Originally posted by cconn487
Guilty by association is my guess. That and we are told it is bad and can never work.

Personally I don't think it is a bad thing. Sure there are parts that are pure fantasy

Like... all of the parts?

Communism is one of those fairy tales you read to your kids. It sounds like utopia when you read it, but the authors always leave out one small detail: Human avarice. When you give a few people total control over a governmental system like communism, there is NO way that they are going to sit there and lord over the rest of the population with fairness and equality.

Never worked, never will. Stop believing fairy tales.

Originally posted by FeatherofMaat
Because they are stupid and uneducated. Sadly, we let them vote and procreate.

I know you are but what am I?

Grow up.

Smart people use historical evidence to reach logical conclusions. Ergo, communism does not work. Who is stupid?

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame


It takes all of your rights away as a human being, that is why it's so bad.

In simpler words, your forever under the thumb of a dictator or someone craving for power.

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Estimated number of victims of Communism:

In the introduction, editor Stéphane Courtois states that "...Communist regimes... turned mass crime into a full-blown system of government"[3]. He claims that a death toll totals 94 million[4]. The breakdown of the number of deaths given by Courtois is as follows:

65 million in the People's Republic of China
20 million in the Soviet Union
2 million in Cambodia
2 million in North Korea
1.7 million in Africa
1.5 million in Afghanistan
1 million in the Communist states of Eastern Europe
1 million in Vietnam
150,000 in Latin America (mainly Cuba)
10,000 deaths "resulting from actions of the international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power.

en.wikipedia.org...

I am guessing that the OP is a younger individual, likely well educated. Just hasn't experienced life, the realization that something that sounds good doesn't mean a thing if you can't implement it....and trust me, you won't be able to implement it - people are too selfish, too greedy.

So communism has never existed in the listed deaths above.

The ideology is true and powerful, but powerful to all humankind not a small hand full.

Its opposition envisioned its demise via communism and took what ever steps were needed like creating a world war and in so creating a new world order based on old world principles.

Communism on paper seems like a really good idea, but so does democracy or any other political ideal. People can make anything sound like a good idea. In reality though things just don't pan out the way that they could because you're never going to get 100% of any population to totally buy into a belief system.

Until the central banks lose complete control of the amount of money in the economy though we're all going to remain debt-slaves for the forseeable unfortunately.

Communism can work on a small scale; the scale of a commune or kibbutz but in practical terms when applied to a large society the state will be supreme and not the worker (prolitariat per se). Communism therefore morphs into statism where the state owns the means of production (as in Communism) but the state becomes something even larger and more sinister. Have you read the Communist Manifesto (most of the tenets of which have been slowly introduced into our culture over the last 80 years)? I think that most people are familiar with some of it (ie the elimination of private property) and that is enough to oppose it ipso facto. Do you like having your own property?

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

 

Peoples idea of "thriving" varies greatly. Tito was a psychopathic murderer that lived in paranoia and fear of his own people he brutalized.

The EU is not exactly the best example to juxtapose what was and what is since it is in essence a vast socialism across the board. The evils you describe as ruining the country are not part of the capitalist economic model. They are a product of large social spending and huge government interference in all that is.

So you didn't have LCDs. So what. People in western nations don't all have them, but also don't live under brutal totalitarian regimes which seem to thrive under the guise of Communism.

That speaks volumes to me......

edit on 3-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

As I said...I probably don't have the whole picture concerning all aspects of living under that regime . My position is that of a common man, working 9-5 to make ends meet.

I am however interested to hear your "source" for this statement:

Peoples idea of "thriving" varies greatly. Tito was a psychopathic murderer that lived in paranoia and fear of his own people he brutalized.

What gave you the idea Tito was psychopatic murderer or that people feared him in that sense ?? He commanded respect from all ages of life in my country. His role in liberating our country from the Nazi regime was crucial during the WW2. We have town squares in Croatia with his name even today. Even though my country pooled out of Tito's Yugoslavia...the respect for the Man and what he stood for in general, is still present to this day.

My parents were born right after the WW2 and grew up in Tito's Yugoslavia and lived through it's entire existence. As I have for the most part of my life.They never mentioned any fear you speak off.

Your stance sounds much like some foreign propaganda to me. No offence intended.

People tend to ignore that Communism never existed and can never exist since it is an utopia and though, never attainable with current mindset. What people followed all over the world was the Soviet Socialism which is a completely different animal and can never work.

In Soviet Socialism, everyone is equal, but some are more equal then others and the latter empower themselves. lol
In Communism (from communal, community) everyone is equal.
In Democracy, all should be equal but many are more equal then others and the latter are empowered by the former.
In Casts (like India), everyone knows they are not equal.

heh

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame


the early Christian Cult operated as a Communistic system...

communism: Definition from Answers.com

n. often Communism a theory or system of social organization in which all .... The
slogan from each according to his ability, to each according to his need' ...
www.answers.com/topic/communism

enough said on why i am against both

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by txjab512

 

That is no better. How about people decide for themselves as a people. The US likes capitalism since we have gotten used to just compensation for our labors, as well as the prospect of opening our own business if we save and sacrifice.

Even something like anarcho-capitalism would not be a good idea in the US (it is what has led us down our darkest roads) since we like to vote and establish our leadership through democratic elections....in theory....

edit on 3-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

That is pure anarchy letting people decide for themselves.

What you said is just a mirror of what your leaders feed you daily, you have no idea if we like to vote or that there is just compensation for our labors, this is a lie of a politician or sound very similar to the garbage politicians spew when trying to tell the public how things are.

Originally posted by St Udio
reply to post by NysgjerrigDame

 

the early Christian Cult operated as a Communistic system...

communism: Definition from Answers.com

n. often Communism a theory or system of social organization in which all .... The
slogan from each according to his ability, to each according to his need' ...
www.answers.com/topic/communism

enough said on why i am against both

edit on 3-1-2013 by St Udio because: (no reason given)

It's not that simple as reading a quote from a dictionary. You gotta read Karl Max to start grasping the concept.
Lenin adopted a distorted view of Marxism, the so called Marxism-Leninism. Still, Karl Max was not the one that came up with the idea.