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Originally posted by quango
Which personal libertys exactly are being infringed here?
The Right to not have to have an ID card?
People claim to want protection from terrorists and then merrily shoot down every idea the government thinks up.
Let this idea, even for five seconds, percolate in your head: The government is trying to protect you.
Hmm.. OTOH, mandatory in five years from 2007?
What year is that?
Originally posted by iwouldificould
I'm in UK and had an id card when I was in the forces. It never caused me any problems to have the card, but there were a lot of benefits.
I can't see why most British people would have any objections to an id card. There are so many situations we need to prove our identities these days (applying for credit, buying a house, dealing with solictors), a national id would fit the bill nicely. We all have id in some shape or form, so what's wrong with one that's nationally recognised? If it helps to make terrorism more difficult, so much the better!
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
The reason it infringes on civil rights, is one you are micromanaged by the government, as in everything you do, what you buy, where you go, everything is under tabs. Thus forms a national database, under the government, of all the citizens in UK, not just your name, date and birth, but an entire history of your life from the issue of the ID card.
Thus you are presented with a very dangerous and real abuse scenorio under a dictorial and corrupt government, everything about you can be changed in one edit, you can be turned into someone you're not(a terrorist) you can be erased from records, or convicted of things you did not even do.
If you don't think it is against your civil rights for your privacy to be completely taken away, and to be micromanaged by an all powerful government, then either you are a drone, you do not care about rights, or need a serious reality check.
A wise man once said; if you exchange your freedom for security, then you will lose both freedom and security.
This already exists. It's called credit card records. Library records. Phone records. Utility bills. School records. Umm. Etc?
The government in your hypothethical could do this just as easily WITHOUT national ID cards, if they are that corrupt and evil.
What privacy are we talking about?
Did not the retail clerk see you buy that handbag? Did that camera at the ATM not record you taking out $40 from your account? Do the utility companies not know where you live and how much you consume? Does your employer not present all your personal info to the taxman? Does your credit card not record every purchase you make, wherever you go, whatever the item? Is not the type of car you drive on file? Your license plate? Is your every internet click not already trackable and retrievable? Your every phone call, both ingoing and outgoing, logged?
Well then he'd certainly be appalled at the state of things now, wouldn't he?
Look, I'm not FOR identification cards. I'm just not AGAINST them either.
It's a card. My wallet is already full of them. If it helps uproot terrorists - awesome. If it doesn't - well, it doesn't.
As for privacy - not only is it not a right once you leave your house and interact in society - it long ago ceased to exist.
In addition to this, a national ID card, will also contain data on:
1. Where you go in the day
2. Which contacts you keep
3. What you do on a day-to-day basis
4. What you buy
Ok number 1 only if you swipe your card everywhere you go which would mean card readers installed everywhere, exceptionally unlikely. Number 2 : linked to data from number 1 with a computer analysis assessing times to specifially determine likely contacts in a group....for millions of people several hundered times a day hmmm I think a nice beefy computer with software not yet possible will be needed. Number 3: how on earth will a card record what I do, where possibly (number1) what I do no way. Number 4: not unless we are cashless and the ID card replaces a bank card. Anyway you can do number 4 now with a bank card now so wake up and wise up.
A national ID card could result in more freedom and less intrusive government behaviour if applied correctly !
There is no reason for it not to happen and you can turn the governments argument for an ID card against itself: "If you have nothing to hide and are behaving within the law then I can view my own information". Since this data will log every time the police question you, for example, then it also acts as an official record of harrassment !
you can turn the governments argument for an ID card against itself: "If you have nothing to hide and are behaving within the law then I can view my own information".