A New Study Shows IQ to be a Myth

Originally posted by fastbob72

I believe a better arguement for the OP would not have been that IQ tests are flawed, but I don't care what my score is cause I can play the Jazz flute really good.

Haha that's the best remark I've heard on the subject yet.I can relate to that as I play a mean blues guitar.lol

Well, I play Jazz guitar.

Duz that maik me clevererer?

I really think that IQ tests only show how good people are at IQ tests.

reply to post by fastbob72


I have made two references so far to "Anchorman" and no one has got them. I just saw that movies a few days ago and am still laughing about it.

reply to post by VekTorVik

I do agree with your statements on the subject, I just think your approach was a little confrontational.

Yes.

I am not an expert, but I don't know how an IQ tests are flawed due to hereditarianism.

They don't, and asserting such is stupid.

IQ tests don't measure hereditary traits, or reproduction... they are simple intelligence measurements.

To state that IQ tests are flawed due to hereditarianism is equal to stating that IQ tests are flawed due to hair color.

The entire assertion is fallacious on it's face.

In what portion of an IQ test do they consider heredity?

Exactly.... They don't.

Isn't it really the interpretation of the results that factor in heredity?

Yes, precisely.

That would mean that the methods of extrapolating data obtained from the tests are flawed.

That depends upon what data you are talking about, and what methods are used to extrapolate the data.

Since IQ tests don't have anything to do with hereditarianism, stating that they are fallacious based upon it it likewise fallacious.

Statement 1 - Hereditarianism is a fallacy inherent in IQ testing
Statement 2 - Hereditarianism fallacy claims that intelligence is genetic

Both of these statements are fallacious for a variety of reasons.

Firstly, IQ tests do not take hereditarianism into account.

Secondly, Intelligence IS genetic, (Q.E.D. Slugs are stupid, and humans are smarter than slugs.)

And thirdly, heredetarianism is not a fallacy in the first place, it's a fact of biology.

reply to post by fastbob72

Yes I'd agree with that but I've known many people who would exhibit the above strongly yet who would not necessarily do as well at formal tests.

Formal tests FOR intelligence, or formal tests FOR other knowledge?

One is not the other, remember that.

Whereas some very well educated people who can certainly pass tests allday long like falling off a log yet are somehow clueless in the real world.

Test taking ability, and "Real World Knowledge" are not synonymous with intelligence, and to think so, or insinuate that they ARE, highlights a failure in your comprehension.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


Then I would say we agree.

But I still think testing your IQ is like measuring your penis. It only matters if you have a big one.

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by fastbob72

I believe a better arguement for the OP would not have been that IQ tests are flawed, but I don't care what my score is cause I can play the Jazz flute really good.

Haha that's the best remark I've heard on the subject yet.I can relate to that as I play a mean blues guitar.lol

Well, I play Jazz guitar.

Duz that maik me clevererer?

I really think that IQ tests only show how good people are at IQ tests.

Jazz guitar,,mm probably does in that case,,all those inversions,man !!!!

That's what I was trying to say - with my own rather average intelligence

I'm one of those that's mostly self educated.I think that someone who has gone through university and better educated than me,certainly able to express themselves much more succinctly than I can may well have an advantage in an IQ test simply by being much more used to formal tests than I am but do they have more raw intelligence than me,who can say !!

Maybe I may lack some in communication skills but have more insight

Intelligence seems to mean different things to different people.

Of course,in the end I'm talking out my a**e because I've never actually taken an IQ test.

As long as I outscore a confused ox I'd be happy

reply to post by fastbob72

All this IQ stuff makes me tired. Makes me feel dumb and inferior.

But anyway.

Success isn't just about IQ. It's about social skills, goals, discipline, good parenting, role models, good schooling and study habits, and, of course, being lucky enough to be born in a rich country.

Originally posted by ghoulardi
reply to post by IEtherianSoul9

 

This will be a great read for people with low IQ's I was tested with an above average IQ but I got really lost after reading the first couple sentences.

edit on 12/22/2012 by ghoulardi because: (no reason given)

i also got tested with an above average I.Q. and also got lost after the first few lines, maybe it was boredom, or the strong feeling of sour grapes emanating from the piece, lol.

reply to post by jonnywhite

Success isn't just about IQ.

Are you stating, or implying, that IQ tests are designed to measure or predict general economic success?

Because they aren't, they are designed to measure intelligence.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by ChuckNasty

 

They fail to factor in common sense in almost all cases.

That would be a CSQ (Common sense Quotient), not an IQ (Intelligence Quotient)

You have failed to realize that IQ tests don't MEASURE common sense... they measure Intelligence.

Duh.

IQ tests haven't FAILED to include common sense, in the same way that IQ tests haven't FAILED to include a body mass index.

The concept is irrelevant to what is being studied, as is your post irrelevant to this discussion.

A common sense approach would factor in cultural differences in said IQ test.

How can one measure an IQ of a person who is a farmer in Zimbabwe using simple language translations instead of proper language interpretations. Using a 3D structure and telling a 'low brow' farmer to guess which structure comes next would be dumb (simplistic terms for you dummies) for a farmer who knows nothing about 3D structures...let alone complex math.

How can you measure that person's IQ effectively?

And to compare common sense to a BMI is extremely 'dumb'.

But then again, I guess I am 'Out of my league' on this thread. So, master of IQ - how does one measure ALL cultures with a single test that is written for a specific group of people? You can't - you have to factor in some 'BMI' into the test to REALLY test a person's IQ.

*Note: You can replace the above 3D with a pie chart in 2D...the highly intelligent Zimbabwe farmer wouldn't give 2 duzvi's on what comes next.

This is proved by University professors houses I have been in...

They are ramshackled, dirty, disorganized, smelly, unclean, piles of stuff everywhere.

They might know the square root of 45,789,789 off the top of their head, but some of them can't make toast!

So intelligence is what again?

Some of them are so bright they couldn't function in the real workplace. So intelligence is what again.

Seem of them would never find employment outside of a university where they teach others the stuff they know yet cannot do anything else.

S what is intelligence again?

This is just what I have seen with my own eyes. Not all obviously - but mainly those with superior intelligence according to that university itself.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

Success isn't just about IQ.

Are you stating, or implying, that IQ tests are designed to measure or predict general economic success?

Because they aren't, they are designed to measure intelligence.

Pretty sure jonnywhite put some more info beyond that quoted sentence in his statement....

Implying that a single sentence, within a group of sentences (also know to some as a paragraph-you might want to look up the definition of it as it seems to evade your massive understanding of IQ and the English language), is the only idea or thought of the writer is pretty dumb... Way to hen peck a person's words and play them into your simplistic view of YOUR world.

Keep on breaking down a person's complete thought into sub structures that make up the supporting body of the complete structure...etc etc.

-CN

Then I know people who flunked school and make their first Million at age 28.

So what is intelligence again?

Again that was what I was trying to say in my thick as s**t kind of way.

If you're using a particular test to differentiate levels of intelligence how can it be wholly accurate if two completely different individuals with backgrounds,experience,education and upbringing that's at opposite ends of the spectrum.

If test results are to be the sole arbriter of the IQ level then surely it needs to test like for like.

It doesn't have to be as wide a difference an educated person from the west and an African farmer.

I know many,many people who effectively dropped out of school at 12
or 13 yet are as smart,insightful and wise as any post grad with a shiney degree !!

Perhaps it's those with high scores who on the IQ test that aren't about to accept anyone who questions the tests validity.

I may feel the same if I had a tested 3 figure IQ.lol

reply to post by ChuckNasty

A common sense approach would factor in cultural differences in said IQ test.

This is false.

A GOOD IQ tests stays as FAR AWAY from cultural differences as possible.

It's an intelligence test, not a culture test.

How can one measure an IQ of a person who is a farmer in Zimbabwe using simple language translations instead of proper language interpretations.

Meaningless jargon thrown in for effect.

Your question means nothing.

And to compare common sense to a BMI is extremely 'dumb'.

What does common sense have to do with measuring intelligence?

The exact same that BMI has to do with intelligence.

You are stating that Intelligence tests (that measure intelligence) are FALSE, because they don't measure things which are NOT intelligence.

This would make your statements 'dumb', actually.

But then again, I guess I am 'Out of my league' on this thread.

Playing the emotional angle?

Is that poison you are throwing in my well?

So, master of IQ - how does one measure ALL cultures with a single test that is written for a specific group of people?

And what specific group of people is an IQ test written for?

Pray tell?

You seem to be adept at >IMPLYING your way out of the arguments that you manage to muck yourself into, without a hope of comprehending what is going on.

You can't - you have to factor in some 'BMI' into the test to REALLY test a person's IQ.

And now you are speaking gibberish.... great....

*Note: You can replace the above 3D with a pie chart in 2D...the highly intelligent Zimbabwe farmer wouldn't give 2 duzvi's on what comes next.

You do realize, that most of what you wrote, doesn't mean anything.... right?

reply to post by pacifier2012

They are ramshackled, dirty, disorganized, smelly, unclean, piles of stuff everywhere.

Are you trying to imply that Intelligence is Cleanliness?

In that... a poorly cleaned house is a sign of stupidity?

Is this your argument? Really?

What exactly do you think IQ tests measure? Table setting skills? Social Ability? Medieval Etiquette in court settings?

Are you really this thick?

So intelligence is what again?

a (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason (2) : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests)

Some of them are so bright they couldn't function in the real workplace. So intelligence is what again.

a (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason (2) : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests)

Seem of them would never find employment outside of a university where they teach others the stuff they know yet cannot do anything else.

You do realize that intelligence is responsible for all innovations, inventions, and advancements since man discovered *FIRE* right?

Are you just buttfrustrated because you aren't intelligent? and so, taking out your own insecurities on people who posses a trait that you lack?

Is that your game?

S what is intelligence again?

a (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason (2) : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests)

reply to post by ChuckNasty

Pretty sure jonnywhite put some more info beyond that quoted sentence in his statement....

What's your point?

Implying that a single sentence, within a group of sentences (also know to some as a paragraph-you might want to look up the definition of it as it seems to evade your massive understanding of IQ and the English language), is the only idea or thought of the writer is pretty dumb... Way to hen peck a person's words and play them into your simplistic view of YOUR world.

Oh, you didn't HAVE a point.... nice way to mask your inability to have a coherent thought by just jamming in as many words as you could.

Keep on breaking down a person's complete thought into sub structures that make up the supporting body of the complete structure...etc etc.

Do you think before you type? or is this all just a straight Emotion to Keyboard rant?

reply to post by fastbob72

If you're using a particular test to differentiate levels of intelligence how can it be wholly accurate if two completely different individuals with backgrounds,experience,education and upbringing that's at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Because you are measuring their intelligence, not their background, experience, education, etcetera...

Jeez....

You are adding superfluous information where none needs to be.

If test results are to be the sole arbriter of the IQ level then surely it needs to test like for like.

Test results are not the arbiter of IQ... Test results are a MEASURE of IQ..... Geez....

It doesn't have to be as wide a difference an educated person from the west and an African farmer.

And this statement didn't mean anything.... You just like saying "African Farmer", don't you?

Shove that mental picture in as many faces as possible, eh?

I know many,many people who effectively dropped out of school at 12
or 13 yet are as smart,insightful and wise as any post grad with a shiney degree !!

Graduating from High School is not an intelligence test... ffs.

What is wrong with you people?

Perhaps it's those with high scores who on the IQ test that aren't about to accept anyone who questions the tests validity.

You don't even know what intelligence MEANS, and you are railing against the very CONCEPT of it....

Truely, it's baffling how you can be so AGAINST something that you CLEARLY have no Idea what it even is.


This thread.... I swear....

Rather, the study determined three factors — reasoning, short-term memory and verbal ability — that combined to create human intelligence or “cognitive profile.”

I guess it makes sense that there are multiple types of intelligence. In light of this, maybe some other index could be constructed that would better reflect the true magnitude of the intellect.

I just hope that this study will not be used to support the "my ignorance is as good as your knowledge" bandwagon, people are not all equal. Also, I dont see what the part about hereditarianism has to do with th validity of IQ? IQ is supposed to measure intelligence regardless of whether it is influenced primarily by genetics or environment.

reply to post by Maslo

I guess it makes sense that there are multiple types of intelligence.

There AREN'T multiple types of intelligence... the entire theory of multiple intelligences was made to pander to Idiots who felt bad about themselves for not being intelligent.

Here is the definition of intelligence:

a (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason (2) : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests)

Would you like to explain how there could be MULTIPLE types of this extremely specific definition?


Or perhaps the people in this thread would like to wax poetic about the virtues of mathematical social skills?