Doomsday re-scheduled? Archaeological record suggests Mayan Armageddon is Sunday

Well, if you believe in quantum physics, then there is most likely a version of the universe where the end of the Earth happened. If you are reading this, it did not happen to you, nor I, so be happy, and for God sake, stop moving this date around, it is getting really foolish. Thanks. Live long and prosper. (and I wish I was living in the universe where Kirk is real!)

YAWN" It's monday ...

Quantum Physics, Alternate Universes, Alternate Realities, Doomsday Scenario ... the Mayan Calender.

I'm not going to be the one who tells these guys to stop smoking ... whatever "potent" stuff they're smoking ... but to seriously believe their fictional tales, after they puffed the smoking dragon .... ya right!

Fiction is fiction .... that stuff, will always stay in the Fictional Universe.

YAWN" It's monday ...

Quantum Physics, Alternate Universes, Alternate Realities, Doomsday Scenario ... the Mayan Calender.

I'm not going to be the one who tells these guys to stop smoking ... whatever "potent" stuff they're smoking ... but to seriously believe their fictional tales, after they puffed the smoking dragon .... ya right!

Fiction is fiction .... that stuff, will always stay in the Fictional Universe.

What the F did the Mayans even do to earn people of the 21st century even CONSIDERING what they thought about the future?

Were they really special? Did I miss something? Did they predict ANYTHING that came true?????

reply to post by sconner755


The Spanish coming that eventually killed them good enough?

reply to post by superman2012


They did not predict the coming of the Spanish. The Mayan civilization ended before the Spanish arrived - by a few centuries.Good enough for you?

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by superman2012

 

They did not predict the coming of the Spanish. The Mayan civilization ended before the Spanish arrived - by a few centuries.Good enough for you?

Quoted you so you couldn't retract.
You do know how to use Google don't you? Do you just follow me around hoping to prove me wrong? You will one day, I guarantee it.

The last Maya states, the Itza polity of Tayasal and the Ko'woj city of Zacpeten, were continuously occupied and remained independent of the Spanish until late in the 17th century. They were finally subdued by the Spanish in 1697.

If you are referring to specific cities and not the "Mayan civilization", I would agree with you. One being Mayapan.

A little reading for you to deny your ignorance on this subject.

reply to post by superman2012


There you go finding that the descendants of the civilization were alive then and also are alive today.

The Mayan civilization had collapsed hundreds of years before the arrival of the Spanish.

The year 2012 was based on the long count calendar. This thread is about a non-GMT correlation. Guess what? The civilization using the long count was long gone by the time the Spanish arrived.

Do you understand what I am telling you? There is a difference between the civilization and the descendants. Yes there were Mayan cities. The people did not die out. The society changed.

Think of it this way, the Roman Empire collapsed on the west by the 5th century, but that did not mean that there not Roman cities well after that date.

If you read the subject you will learn that the Mayan civilization began to collapse by the 8th or 9th century. The civilization broke down into city-states.

The people conquered by the Spanish had not used the long count calendar for centuries. 2012 is about the long count calendar. Right? This Sunday date is about the long count calendar. The long count went out of use sometime during the break down of the Mayan civilization into the city state society encountered by the Spanish.

reply to post by stereologist

There you go finding that the descendants of the civilization were alive then and also are alive today.

Yup, their civilization was there until the Spanish conquered them, I'll give you that we are both at least 1/2 right though.

The Mayan civilization had collapsed hundreds of years before the arrival of the Spanish.

No, no, no my dear friend. Elements of Mayan civilization collapsed, yes. But not the whole civilization as you eluded to in your previous post.

The year 2012 was based on the long count calendar. This thread is about a non-GMT correlation. Guess what? The civilization using the long count was long gone by the time the Spanish arrived.

That is akin to saying that the Gregorian calendar was introduced in 1582. Well now, that is in the past, and we don't live like those antiquated people, therefore it is wrong. PS- they used it.

Do you understand what I am telling you? There is a difference between the civilization and the descendants. Yes there were Mayan cities. The people did not die out. The society changed.

To be honest, I don't think you know what you are trying to say. We are not the same civilization as in the 1500's, but, we are still a civilization. We have made advances, changing our civilization. It doesn't cease to be a civilization. It might help you to try to think of it as a 'living entity' that constantly evolves. Society always changes.

Think of it this way, the Roman Empire collapsed on the west by the 5th century, but that did not mean that there not Roman cities well after that date.

Now are you trying to say government and civilization are one and the same? If you are, you are wrong.

If you read the subject you will learn that the Mayan civilization began to collapse by the 8th or 9th century. The civilization broke down into city-states.

Yes, that is why I agreed with you on the first point. The Mayan civilization didn't collapse though, it changed, as all civilizations do.

The people conquered by the Spanish had not used the long count calendar for centuries. 2012 is about the long count calendar. Right? This Sunday date is about the long count calendar. The long count went out of use sometime during the break down of the Mayan civilization into the city state society encountered by the Spanish.

I'm sure you have a source for the claim that they hadn't used that calendar for centuries?

reply to post by superman2012

No, no, no my dear friend. Elements of Mayan civilization collapsed, yes. But not the whole civilization as you eluded to in your previous post.

Consider the Roman Empire and the remnants afterward. The Roman remnants were similar, but not the same. The Mayan city states were similar, but not the same.

That is akin to saying that the Gregorian calendar was introduced in 1582. Well now, that is in the past, and we don't live like those antiquated people, therefore it is wrong. PS- they used it.

I have no idea what you were trying to state here. The long count was not in use.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Sitler said. "That's because that calendar fell into disuse a thousand years ago."

To be honest, I don't think you know what you are trying to say. We are not the same civilization as in the 1500's, but, we are still a civilization. We have made advances, changing our civilization. It doesn't cease to be a civilization. It might help you to try to think of it as a 'living entity' that constantly evolves. Society always changes.

To be honest I think you are trying to fudge your stance.

Now are you trying to say government and civilization are one and the same? If you are, you are wrong.

Straw man argument.

Yes, that is why I agreed with you on the first point. The Mayan civilization didn't collapse though, it changed, as all civilizations do.

Fudge what you will.

Just to complicate matters it appears that not all of the separate Mayan groups used the same long counts dates for a particular date. There was no common dating system used across the remnants of the Mayan civilization.

haecceities.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/2012-the-long-count-does-not-end-on-december-21-2012/

As Van Stone argues: “It seems that different schools of time‐reckoning existed in different city‐states. These were proud, squabbling polities, constantly jockeying for power like Athens and Sparta. When one thinks about it, it seems much more likely that they would have competing mythologies and scientific systems, than that they would have been of one accord.”

reply to post by stereologist


You can side step the arguments all you want. Still waiting for your sources. While you search for them, here is an elementary explanation of their calendar. You will notice on that site that the long count calendar is divided into 5 distinct units.

one day - kin 20 days - uinal 360 days - tun 7,200 days - katun 144,000 days - baktun

So, you say they didn't use the long count calendar even though it included days?
This is a good example of arguing when you don't completely understand the topic. Don't worry, I'm not an expert either, not even close.

PS- It wasn't meant to be a straw man argument, just merely trying to point out that your analogy was way off the mark and made no sense in regards to your supposed point.

reply to post by superman2012

You can side step the arguments all you want. Still waiting for your sources. While you search for them, here is an elementary explanation of their calendar. You will notice on that site that the long count calendar is divided into 5 distinct units.

I know about the long count. I already included sources saying it was out of use. Please go back and read.

So, you say they didn't use the long count calendar even though it included days?

Another pointless straw man argument. ... sigh

This is a good example of arguing when you don't completely understand the topic. Don't worry, I'm not an expert either, not even close.

I've repeatedly pointed out that the long count is simply a count of days.

PS- It wasn't meant to be a straw man argument, just merely trying to point out that your analogy was way off the mark and made no sense in regards to your supposed point.

No excuses please. You posted a straw man argument.

The fact is simple. The long count was long out of use. Read the source I posted - a real archaeologist.

I case you need more information that the long count calendar went into disuse over 1000 years ago:

authenticmaya.com...

reply to post by stereologist

So, a website not updated since the beginning of last year, staffed by a Dr. of Internal Medicine is your best source?

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by superman2012

 

You can side step the arguments all you want. Still waiting for your sources. While you search for them, here is an elementary explanation of their calendar. You will notice on that site that the long count calendar is divided into 5 distinct units.

I know about the long count. I already included sources saying it was out of use. Please go back and read.

So, you say they didn't use the long count calendar even though it included days?

Another pointless straw man argument. ... sigh

This is a good example of arguing when you don't completely understand the topic. Don't worry, I'm not an expert either, not even close.

I've repeatedly pointed out that the long count is simply a count of days.

PS- It wasn't meant to be a straw man argument, just merely trying to point out that your analogy was way off the mark and made no sense in regards to your supposed point.

No excuses please. You posted a straw man argument.

The fact is simple. The long count was long out of use. Read the source I posted - a real archaeologist.

Simple fact. You have not proven your position and your repeated used of "straw man argument" and "fudge this and that" have shown that you do not want to address any of the original questions posed of you. I get it. I have come to expect this of you. Unless you have verified sources (no blogs and no setting up your own website) please allow that either argument can be possible. I don't want to have to waste all my time explaining things to you like when I had to explain the jet stream and how it worked for you.

reply to post by superman2012


The source is very clearly archaeologists. So please spare all of the whining.

It's very clear that with the collapse of the Mayan civilization so too was the long count calendar dropped.

Since you obviously did not read the posted material I see no reason to continue this discussion with you.

reply to post by superman2012

Simple fact. You have not proven your position and your repeated used of "straw man argument" and "fudge this and that" have shown that you do not want to address any of the original questions posed of you. I get it. I have come to expect this of you. Unless you have verified sources (no blogs and no setting up your own website) please allow that either argument can be possible. I don't want to have to waste all my time explaining things to you like when I had to explain the jet stream and how it worked for you

Two separate archaeologists point out that the last time someone used the long count was around 900AD.

The people encountered by the Spanish were the descendants of the Mayan civilization which is not the same as the people that used the long count. No one had used the long count in 500+ years by the time the Spanish arrived. Discrepancies in long count dates from the Classic period now suggest to archaeologists that the long count calendar was not standardized across all of the Mayan cities.

I've explained it you. I have given you links to those archaeologists that made these statements. Go read since you haven't done that already.

reply to post by stereologist

Discrepancies in long count dates from the Classic period now suggest to archaeologists that the long count calendar was not standardized across all of the Mayan cities.

You sure showed me with such strong language.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by superman2012

 

The source is very clearly archaeologists. So please spare all of the whining.

It's very clear that with the collapse of the Mayan civilization so too was the long count calendar dropped.

Since you obviously did not read the posted material I see no reason to continue this discussion with you.

It's ok pal. I know that you don't answer all questions posed of you and will not provide true sources when asked. I read yours, responded to it, asked more questions and you tried to (unsuccessfully) ignore my questions and responses by accusing me of straw man arguments and fudging something. Many thanks to you for not continuing this discussion and putting me through anymore of your nonsense.

reply to post by superman2012

You sure showed me with such strong language.

Sorry that is too difficult a concept to grasp.

What it means is that date problems appear to be due to different dates being assigned to the same day by different groups. That is what happens when a civilization collapses and different groups head in different directions.