Connecticut Shop Where Nancy Lanza Bought 1 Of Her Guns Raided By Feds

Well, if you have guns in inventory that deducted money from your income and you sold those guns without any paperwork, it is still in inventory. It could possibly just be income tax evasion.

The gun store owners explaination as to where the guns went is just plain ignorant.

My son owns a gun shop and goes to the extream protecting his firearms.

All guns and ammo are inside a cage of steal bars with a special type of metal line connecting each gun to the next one and so on till all are connected then the ends of the special wire is bolted to the floor.

There is a very secure lock on the door to the cage and no one goes in without him or another employee.

There are also state of the art alarm systems in and around the building.

There is not a time he doesn't know exactly what guns he has and where they are.

And you can bet your last dollar there are eyes on the customers at all times.

There is no way a dealer is not going to notice missing guns

I have been in many gun shops and they all are very protective of their guns.

Originally posted by TKDRL
Hmmmm, something to keep an eye on for sure. No reason for a raid if nothing hinky was going on, other than to try to make it look like "they are doing something" for the masses of zombies.

Not so. The BATF does what is wants when it wants.
A raid can be completed on the person or company simply by having a FFL.
It is a sad day when a govt agency can swoop in, confiscate all firearms which is merchandise and basically put a company out of business, just because.

Some on this thread are incredulous that the store owner was able to miss the theft of these thirty three firearms from his store. On the face of it, I would agree, it does seem strange. However, strange as it may seem, it is not beyond belief.

There are, in fact, a number of things to consider.

1) Size of the store:
In a store with a large floor plan, a canny thief could remove an item without it ever being missed, just simply by rearranging other stock around the area where the purloined item used to rest. And that assumes that the items stolen were previously on display in the first place! If they were instead in packing crates out the back somewhere, then unless the owner of the store wanted to go and find a particular weapon, and found the weapon with a specific serial number missing, the theft could again go utterly without notice.

2)Stock levels/how many of a particular weapon there were in the store:
As with any excersize involving the obsfucation of a theft, wether it be fraud or straight removal of property, quantity can play a very large part. Lets say I have sixty oranges. Lets say someone takes one when my back is turned. If I still have a pile of oranges, then I am not going to be suspicious. So lets extend the shell of that concept around the issue at hand shall we? Lets say that the thief in this case is after firearms, and that he has studied what weapons are lying around and in what ammounts. Lets then say, that the thief chooses to take one of the firearms, of which there are a great profusion. By doing this, he can avoid detection.

3)Time:
The other thing to consider, when trying to see how a person could steal so much hardware from one place, is the amount of time they spent doing it. Sure, if the thief carried all these guns out of the store over a weekend, then you would assume that the owner would notice, and kneecap the fellow at nearest oppertunity. However, if it is the case that the thefts happened over a year, or even a few months, then it is not as clear cut as all that. Say a weapon goes missing, via the method described in parts 1 or 2 of my response. If it goes unquestioned, then the thief will know that his method appears sound. As long as he selects only the weapons that are there in greatest numbers, he will not need to rush the job. He could steal maybe one or two per month for a year, and get away clean if he is smart and careful.

4)Store policy/management habits:
There is nothing to say that a gun store owner must do daily, eyes on checks on every single weapon in his possession, every day. If he is in a store room, he might check to see that a particular crate number is present and correct, and assume the contents are secured, and thereby neglect to check inside the crate. He may check the crate, and see a weapon on top of some packing, and think "looks tidy to me" and think no more of it. In short, if his habits are lax, then it would be even easier to steal from him.

I have heard of people stealing computers in part form from offices and spares suppliers, I have heard of people stealing cars piece by piece, outfits garment by garment.... all one has to do is to choose ones target wisely.

Originally posted by JBA2848


So now they raid the gun shop to get evidence of what? Was it a illegal gun sale? Is the owner making illegal sales. He was just quoted in the news talking about how he sold them the gun that was probably used to kill the little children. But it seems he has also been running into problems with people trying to steal guns from his shop. Mentally ill people trying to steal guns from his shop? Could it be he just got caught trying to sneak a deal with a mentally ill person?

newyork.cbslocal.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

It didnt have to be anything. This is just government intimidation and example setting.

They may have however just went in to ask a few questions and the press is reporting it as a "raid".....you know being the tools that they are. Why have a real raid with storm troopers when you can just say there was one and get the same effect.

reply to post by TrueBrit


I don't know what kind of gun stores you got there in england, but hell, every gun store I been to in the tristate, theft was impossible. Guns were chained, locked in cases etc. Bottlenecked entrances no one comes or goes without them knowing, especially with a stolen gun.

reply to post by TKDRL


But employees/authorised persons would not have the same scrutiny applied to them,would they?

We have crappy gun shops here. All bbs and bloody paintball crap. The odd hunting bow/crossbow, but nothing more gnarly than that. I suppose there might be the odd shop, out in the country that does a little better than that, but in the main thats about it.

Originally posted by macman

Not so. The BATF does what is wants when it wants.
A raid can be completed on the person or company simply by having a FFL.
It is a sad day when a govt agency can swoop in, confiscate all firearms which is merchandise and basically put a company out of business, just because.

Even just to get a C&R I had to agree to tolerating anyday, anytime, without warning visits to the location named in the license.

reply to post by JBA2848


I wonder why it was "raided." I believe one of their initial quotes in all of this, just like the Aurora shooting, was that all guns were purchased legally. So why the raid? I also don't understand why they're wasting time with certain things like this. If they were his mother's guns, which they claim, and she bought them legally, which they claim, what's the purpose in the raid? And Vance said they're going to thoroughly investigate every minute detail, right down to the guns being made on the assembly line - his words. Why? What are they going to gain from that?

reply to post by CinnamonHearts


The source article says it wasn't related to the shooting. It was a sensationalistic headline to highlight BATFE grandstanding. They knew most people would read and digest the whole article. So, the premise is great pr for an agency still smarting from the Fast and Furious scandal.

reply to post by CinnamonHearts

What are they going to gain from that?

more fear, plain and simple.
i agree with you ... if the weapons recovered were legally purchased, what's with the 'raid' at all?

maybe a standard inspection ??
possibly, then blown out of proportion by the msm, more likely than not.

besides, on the stolen merchandise part, not only did the poster above me cover it, but 2 or 3 stolen items per month, over the course of time, isn't as noticeable as ppl would like to think.
(1yr could easily equal 2-3 dozen weapons)

This doesn't make any sense. So they traced a gun back to a gun shop and they are raiding it. If the gun could be traced back to the shop then obviously the gun was legally sold no? This sounds like they are trying chalk one up for gun control to me.

Giving the store owner the benefit of the doubt here first (innocent until proven guilty), I would say they are looking at the purchase records to see if the mother of the shooter hod any other weapons registered to her that are missing. Or, that they found weapons on the premises that are not on his record, they will look at other local dealers, serial #'s, etc.... Also, the records will show ancillary purchases of hers as well....perhaps a pattern to use in the investigation will emerge.

However, I do suspect that "losing" over 30 weapons would constitute a case of gross negligence at best, or outright illegal dealings at worst. That's how investigations should be done. However, like mentioned earlier, a simple "visit to collect evidence" by the BATF would likely be reported by the MSM as a "raid on the gun store". After all, what headline sells more ad space in the media?

"ATF Agents Visit Gun Store to Collect Evidence"

or

"Gun Store Raided by ATF"


PS: I intentionally do not want to use his name, and perpetuate the celebrity status, he's a "shooter", period.

there is no way someone can take 33 guns in a single day from a store but over the course of a year? yeah that would be easy enough if you worked there and knew how to get them out.

Just yesterday Hyatt guns did a million dollars in sales - all of there semi auto rifles are sold out and that's the largest gun store in america - they advertise an inventory of over 7000 guns at any one time.

When there is a bonanza like this going on with guns it can happen just like with any other theft.

The ATF has a real problem though if this can happen and the guy needs to have those 33 guns confiscated and sold at auction to benefit the ATF as a penalty at the very least.

Originally posted by JBA2848
windsorlocks.patch.com...

Police: Man Stole Weapons from East Windsor Gun Shop Because He Was Being "Teased" at Work
Jordan Marsh, 26, of South Windsor has mental health issues, according to one family member.
The weekend arrest of a mentally ill man who had been stockpiling weapons has some believing that another potential tragedy akin to the one in Newtown was averted.


Jordan Marsh, 26, whose most recent address was 485 King St. in South Windsor, is facing a litany of charges after allegedly attempting to steal a long rifle from an East Windsor gun store last Saturday.

Marsh, who until recently lived with his father and stepmother, had previously received a two-year suspended sentence after it was discovered in June 2011 that he had stolen 12 firearms from the same gun store, Riverview Sales

So he stole 12 guns from the same gun store? He did not steal them all at once but at separate times. Now I would have to say I doubt he was able to do this over and over.

Why would it be so impossible to steal over and over again? People do it at Walmart all the time. Once you find a loop hole in a business's security measures, as a thief you exploit it. I would imagine it would be very difficult to steal 12 guns in one clean sweep. So it makes sense to me that he continued to go back and steal some more until he was finally caught.

As far as the OP, I think it is all nonsense. What is the point in raiding the place now? It only makes sense if the transaction was illegal to begin with, but the MSM has been adamant in saying that all the guns were legally purchased.

reply to post by MikeNice81


You're right because all I read was the headline, and it made no sense to me. Mission accomplished on their part.

with the pace gun sales increasing right now, it would not surprise me in the least if a few go 'unaccounted'.
a local dealer here is sold-out of just about everything, including ammo.
www.heraldtribune.com...

This guy stole over 20 guns from ONE store?! Are you kidding me? Any gun store I've ever been in has all of its guns locked up inside of a locked cage. How could he have done it once let alone over 20 times? That doesn't add up. Maybe the store owner was selling them under the table and then reporting them as stolen? I dunno, this story is getting weirder and weirder everyday.

Let me state up-front I am a 2nd Amendment advocate. My intent with the following statement is to attempt to identify a valid area of gun legislation, with the goal of keeping our rights intact and save needless deaths.

As for these "missing" firearms, I feel even ONE missing firearm is too many. Does shoplifting happen in retail, of course. But "missing" one TV or ten TV's will not result in someone being dead. One missing firearm has the potential for 10 dead people (typical 10 round mag in a pistol as an example). I would hope that the tracking of firearm sales would be the most stringent and rigorous with regards to security, inventory record keeping, and physical inspection on the planet. This is not a call for further registering or information collection of retail buyers.....no. This is assuring that the sellers licensed to deal in this trade are held responsible for the industry in which they chose to do business.

If a firearm dealer cannot assure, via "paperwork" and visual inspection, the location and status of EVERY one in his/her possession, then his/her license to sell should be revoked. This also applies to ammunition as well IMO. There will be some here saying that "theft happens", to which I say, with that attitude, then "death happens". Lets hope it's not your family that pays for that missing item with someone's irreplaceable life. The price paid for one missing firearm is too high in my book. And, if it continues to be that lax, you can kiss the 2nd Amendment goodbye right now.

Let's all accept personal and professional responsibility for these items in our possession. We have at our fingertips the power of life or death, we should be respectful of that responsibility, and never lax.

Originally posted by JBA2848


So now they raid the gun shop to get evidence of what? Was it a illegal gun sale? Is the owner making illegal sales. He was just quoted in the news talking about how he sold them the gun that was probably used to kill the little children. But it seems he has also been running into problems with people trying to steal guns from his shop. Mentally ill people trying to steal guns from his shop? Could it be he just got caught trying to sneak a deal with a mentally ill person?

newyork.cbslocal.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Wow... thats a great question. I guess if his money was green it didn't matter what his mental state was...