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Is US on a road to Communism ?

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posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by Merinda
 


Just because something is equal it doesn't make it communism.

Equality is just a result of the means of production being owned in common, instead of by a few private owners.

It's not like communism is equality no matter what. In fact nothing can ever be truly equal. The aim of communism/socialism is the end of capitalism, and the means of production owned in common by those who work. It doesn't create complete equality, it just makes the economy more equal, because no one has the advantage of a monopoly of ownership of the means to produce.



You forget to explain that in practice, the means of production is actually owned and centrally controlled by the STATE and therefore the proletariat never control anything and the State never withers away. That is the reality here and the NWO Totalitarian One World Govt will leave the wealthy controllers in place.
edit on 12/19/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-12-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 21 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

You forget to explain that in practice, the means of production is actually owned and centrally controlled by the STATE and therefore the proletariat never control anything and the State never withers away. That is the reality here and the NWO Totalitarian One World Govt will leave the wealthy controllers in place.


No, please read what I'm saying. One more time, socialism can be stateless, that is why we have Anarchism.

"Anarchism is stateless socialism" - Mikhail Bakunin

You're talking about Marxism. I do not support Marxism for the reasons you state.

But having said that the state is not necessarily bad. The state we have now is bad because it is set up for the interests of a minority class of private owners. Those that have the economic power control the state. If the hierarchical system of capitalism is broken down, then we the people will have more power to influence the state.

The state we have is a result of capitalism.



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 07:09 AM
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reply to post by UltraMarine
 


America is already a communist country, owned by foreign(British) capitalists. All possessions owned by Americans are valued in Dollars. The US dollar is a fiat Currency, real currency such as gold and silver are off and on borderline illegal. So it is painfully obvious that since Americans cannot buy or sell our property with real currency, we do not own the property in the first place. As it can be seized with or without a court order with restitution being paid in fake money(fiat currency).

Combined with a Public School system that is used for Propaganda instead of education, rampant genocide via population replacement(Genocide is always the hallmark of a Communist/Leftist regime), forced labor camps and rampant corruption......

You have to ignore the paint and outer shell and look at the inner workings to figure out what is exactly what. America is a totally Communist Totalitarian State, just one with velvet gloves and toy guns.



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 07:42 AM
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reply to post by UltraMarine
 


No, the USA is not on the road to Communism. And claiming that Obama is a KGB agent is ridiculous. It sounds awfully like Birtherism. What's next? Obama is a Maoist? A Syndicalist-Trotskyite? Even worse - a Methodist?



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by korathin
 


America is a Communist country owned by Capitalists? What?



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by korathin
America is already a communist country, owned by foreign(British) capitalists.


How can it be communist if it is owned by capitalists?

That would make it capitalism. Capitalism IS the private ownership of the means of production, land factories etc.

Communism/socialism is the workers common ownership of the means of production.



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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The US is driving AWAY from a representative republic.

Whether our destination is near communism, socialism, fascism, corporatism, or -ism is anyone's guess.



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
The US is driving AWAY from a representative republic.

Whether our destination is near communism, socialism, fascism, corporatism, or -ism is anyone's guess.


The US has never been a true representative republic. You are mixing economic systems with political systems btw.

It's no guess it's quite easy to see what is happening. We are heading to the complete domination of the economy by a small minority of capitalists. Call it corporatism if you like but it is a construct of capitalism.

Politically we are becoming more fascist. Our state system will never be fully fascist because it is capitalists running the state, not the military. I guess we could call the political system corporatism, but the economic system will stay capitalist.

Unless WE wake up to this reality, and take control of our own lives.

edit on 12/28/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


All these terms!

I like simple.

We are here--------------------------------------------------> Slavery (this is where we are heading)



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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I don't know if the US is on the road to communism.

If the simple definition of Communism is one where the state controls the economy, then look to who controls the state. Since our government is for sale to the highest bidder, the ones promoting communism would be the big corporations and banks that want the government in their pocket to do their bidding, rather than follow the rules of free market capitalism.

Those that agree with these entities being able to buy policies to suit them are the problem, Especially since these very large entities have more money than anyone else, and the politicians will listen to them.

If our government ceased to exist, many large corporations and wall street banks would go under without having a Government + Military to control foreign and domestic policy for them at the expense of every other business and person in this country,



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
All these terms!

I like simple.

We are here--------------------------------------------------> Slavery (this is where we are heading)


But lol if you don't understand the terms then you can have no idea what is going on, and what you might be able to change. Or for that matter argue against anything in a forum.

We really do have the power to change, but we allow ourselves to be overwhelmed by the artificial complexity of it all. It's really not as complex as we are made to believe. Understand the basic meaning of terms, and you will have a better understanding of history, and thus a better understand of what is happening now and what it might lead to.

People will allow a dictatorship because they believe it is the opposite of what it actually is. That is how Hitler came to power. Mussolini got his political power through the Italian socialist party, he wasn't a socialist, it was just a platform to gain power. He was thrown out of the party for supporting military action, something socialists are apposed to. The Bolsheviks used the workers, claiming to be socialists, to gain state power.

In modern times we have the illusion of democracy, when in reality the state is ran by and for capitalist interests.
Yet people can't seem to see past what they're told, capitalism is freedom and communism is slavery. Even when shown overwhelming proof they still refuse to accept the grand illusion they have fallen for.

All governments lie, not just the "enemy".

"As Socialism in general, Anarchism was born among the people; and it will continue to be full of life and creative power only as long as it remains a thing of the people." From the book 'Modern Science and Anarchism' p.5, Peter Kropotkin, 1908

edit on 12/28/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by jacobe001
If the simple definition of Communism is one where the state controls the economy


But that is not the definition. That would be state-capitalism...



state capitalism
state capitalism
noun
a form of capitalism in which the central government controls most of the capital, industry, natural resources, etc.


dictionary.reference.com...

Communism/socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production.



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Regardless of what we have, it sure is not "Free Market Capitalism" and the military I served in is not about defending our "freedoms" but for stealing my tax dollars to protect the interests of the Big "Multi National Corporations and Global Banking Cartel that owe no allegiance to this country.



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by jacobe001
Regardless of what we have, it sure is not "Free Market Capitalism" and the military I served in is not about defending our "freedoms" but for stealing my tax dollars to protect the interests of the Big "Multi National Corporations and Global Banking Cartel that owe no allegiance to this country.


Well we partly agree, just need to refine the terminology and place blame where it truly needs to be.

Capitalism is not free-market though, period. Free markets have been around forever, capitalism is only 250ish years old. In fact the term capitalism was coined by socialists. Loui Blanc, a French Socialist, coined the term and defined it as "the appropriation of capital by some to the exclusion of others." It was later refined as the private ownership of the means of production.

"Free market" in the capitalist sense is the freedom to exploit without government over site. It is free market for capitalists only. It's not a free market for those who do not own property and only have their labour to sell. If it was a truly free market workers would be able to dictate what their labour is worth, not the capitalist owner. Capitalists use the state to their benefit because they have the economic power to do so. There is no freedom when there is an imbalance in economic power. It creates hierarchy.

The military, the police, the state, all set up to protect the interests of the capitalist class, which is "the Multi National Corporations and Global Banking Cartels".

edit on 12/28/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Fair enough.
I'll go along with you there.

The founding fathers wanted a country that gave equal opportunity to succeed for everyone and that is not what we have today, when the government is only representing these entities at the expense of not only individuals but the small and medium sized business in this country.

The small and medium sized business in this country is not given equal opportunity to succeed when the Multi National Corporations and Global Banking Cartels can come in with their lobbyists and write their own foreign and domestic policies to benefit them and hurt the small guys. Are better yet, go into politics and write policy for your former companies that you then go back to afterwards.

Then these same entities come in and buyout or bankrupt the small guys that their policies are responsible for and call it "Free Market Capitalism" when it is anything but.

I understand your concern with Free Market Capitalism as well and agree it should be balanced by a defensive government as well that protects us from corrupt individuals and countries abroad and corrupt individials and collective entities here at home to the benefit of everyone.

edit on 28-12-2012 by jacobe001 because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-12-2012 by jacobe001 because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-12-2012 by jacobe001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by jacobe001
 


Exactly mate.

Capitalism has turned our society into a competition that feeds on that human nature. The system of capitalism causes this to happen, it's an inevitability. There will always be some at the top and many at the bottom, no matter how much it's regulated. Regulations don't work that well anyway because capitalism empowers a minority class economically to the point they can buy themselves out of regulations.

In reality government doesn't run the country, capitalists do, because they are the only ones with the economic power to do so. Our focus should to be on capitalism, not the state, to understand the problem.

Capitalism is an economic dictatorship. It takes money to do anything politically and they have a monopoly on production, meaning they will always be economically dominant, and thus in control of the state.





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