The mystery of Mayan and Egyptian common creation myth.

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posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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I'll outline here what seems to me a very great mystery, arguably THE greatest, it concerns correspondence between Mayan and Old Kingdom Egyptian creation myth, separated as these two cultures were by time and space there shouldn't be such peculiar and particular concerns.

I'll begin with the Maya, their conception of first time creation involving three stars of first establishment located within the constellation Orion

Mayan Creation


The story of creation on QuiriguaStela gives us the most detailed information about the first moment. The text describes the first event as the “appearance or manifestation of an image” . Here the image that appeared was of three stone-settings described as a jaguar throne stone placed by the Paddler Gods at a place called Na-Ho-Chan, ‘House (or First or Female) Five-Sky’; a snake throne stone set up by an unknown god at Kab-Kah, ‘Earth-town and a water or ocean throne stone set up by Itzamna


Quirigua, Palenque, and other sites, the scribes specified further that the place where these stones were set was“Lying-down Sky First Three-Stone-Place,”(Ch’a-Chan-Yax-Ox-Tunal).







.David Freidel and Schele, who were working on these concepts, immediately presumed that the three stones referred to the stones of a Maya hearth. Not only does a hearth always have three stones in it, but they are arranged in the same triangular pattern as the glyph for Yax-Ox-Tunal. Furthermore, as Matt Looper pointed out, Dennis Tedlock(1985) had identified the lower triangle of stars in Orion—Alnitak, Saiph, and Rigel—as the three stones of the hearth. At the 1992 Workshop on Maya Hieroglyphic Writing,Barbara Tedlock further added that theK’iche’ call Orion Je Chi Q’aq’, ‘dispersed fire’







The cosmic hearth was not the only image generated by creation according to the ancient texts. Another inscription published in Mayer (1991) says that “on 4Ahaw 8 Kumk’u, was seen the first image of the turtle, the great divine lord”

This turtle is the double-headed turtle that cracks open for the rebirth of the Maize God and like the cosmic hearth can be found in the sky. Because the three stars on the turtle’s back match the belt of Orion, Schele(1992) believes the turtle to be located there



None of this is my own research but i would concur with their conclusions, to this i would draw attention to the sign for the place of establishment that is seen beneath the cosmic tree, the stepped hieroglyph which can also be the sign for a city or pyramid/sacred mountain, this then would also appear to relate to the three points of first establishment relative to Orion.












I would also draw attention to the Principle bird Deity, the falcon of night and day, that could be illustrated above the sign for first establishment.




From the late Post-Classic Paris Codex back in time to the Pre-Classic San Bartolo murals, god D (Itzamna) has the so-called Principal Bird Deity The bird often holds a bicephalous snake in its beak. Its head sometimes resembles that of a rain deity; at other times, it is more like that of a bird of prey, perhaps the laughing falcon believed to be a harbinger of rain. The wings are repeatedly inscribed with the signs for 'daylight' and 'night', suggesting that the bird's flight could represent the unfolding of time.



en.wikipedia.org...




That would look sort of familiar to an Egyptologist, lets examine why...


The Mayan identifications of the first creation place with Orion seem generally accepted and non-contentious, as far as the Egyptian correlation goes i would have to say that everything you have read on the interwebs for this is wrong, at least for the Old Kingdom, the familiar striding figure was after the Sumerian 'Shepherd of Anu' introduced in the Middle Kingdom and associate with the proliferating cult of Osiris, who amongst many other Deities assimilated the Cult of Sokar, who represented Orion in the Old Kingdom.

Its always been problematic to explain how Sokar in the Old Kingdom could have represented an ideogram for the constellation Orion, taking into account the Mayan configuration however, it becomes very easy...

First we should note that the Sokar festival of Khoiak was a seasonal agricultural festival based upon the position of Orion relative to the local horizon, as in the case of the Mayans there was direct relevence to the birth/rebirth of an agricultural Deity



He represented the fertility that lies at the bottom of the underworld as well as the minerals and vegetal produce of the earth. He was carried on a boat known as the Henu-barque which had the form of a the crescent moon. His stellar manifestation was that of Orion.







www.rostau.org.uk...


The agrarian calendar perfectly defines the liturgy: the onions planted at the end of September and picked at the end of October are heralding the arrival of the light and are going to be transplanted in the land to be ready to be chewed at the time of the festival of Bastet, February 5th, as all snakes come out of their hibernation and when the swallows begin to return announcing the summer sun. The small onions, early fruits and vegetables, inhaled to receive a new breath at the time of the ntryt-night, having germinated during the winter period, become witnesses to a source of rebirth to a chthonian life, with the image of a living Sokar in a cave and carrying the solar star in the Duat. The solarisation or light created the 25th and 26th of Khoiak leads to a stellar design (or darkness with appearance of the constellation of Orion).



www.osirisnet.net...


It is the arc wingspan of Sokar, the night falcon, that directly equates to the primeval mound of first creation, with the Mayan this is the carapace of the turtle, thus there are differances in stylistic approach, and yet they locate their mounds of first creation in the same locale.

Sokar is drawn across the cosmic waters in the Henu barque, a turtle naturally can simply swim.. There appears to be a concern in the Henu barque sometimes with the triangular formulation around the Orion nebula, the three points of first establishment.








Sokar was the principle Deity of the necropoli at Giza, Saqqara and Abusir, the pyramid having association with the mound of first creation, and the place of rebirth, as in the Mayan example, from the centre or heart of the turtle carapace.









The Mayans considered this central place of first creation as were the cosmic tree of the Heavens was raised, as did the Egyptians in terms of the raising of the Djed column, the Underworld realm of Sokar having centrality within the Duat.




It's hard to see how these particular and peculiar commonalities arose, like i said, why the heart of first creation should have been seen as within the Orion nebula, perhaps though it explains why 'the engineers' ride within a Henu barque...




then again perhaps not, but all very intriguing.


edit on 18-12-2012 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)
edit on 18-12-2012 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 10:40 AM
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Hello,

interesting thread to say the least, thank you for taking the time to make it, for us readers.

I like the tie in with Alien ( always been a big fan ) , be it a quick tie in, and all that...

S&F for a thought provoking thread



SS



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by Spike Spiegle
 



Yes someone has noted the curious tradition of the Henu barque and incorporated it into the modern mythos of Alien and the Engineers. There is also the first place of creation being associate with the fire within the triangular hearth, and Prometheus with the bringing of the fire...



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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Yes, excellent.

I am always looking at the obvious but ignored connections as well.

This certainly caught my eye. Be sure to scroll right to to see the similarity.




posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by Julie Washington
 



It's odd that they don't get ignored by the movie industry though, that they are brought to mind at a subliminal level but not discussed at the serious. For example the 'engineers command apparatus incorporates the Mayan cosmic tree motif after the Pacal lid, no surprises there as it's such a part of 'ancient alien' lore, but to combine that with the Henu bark and thus combine Mayan and Egyptian elements which are thematically related is quite impressive...for Hollywood.





posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by Kantzveldt
 


Hi kantzveldt,
Another very interesting thread, I have lately become enamored of ancient mythology and how it can be used a a guide to past events and to track human movements.

I referenced this article in one of previous threads if you didn't read it, I think you will find it very informative, I know I did.

anthropogenesis.kinshipstudies.org...



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:46 PM
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I have always wondered about the connection with what we call the Orion Constellation.
Giza in Egypt,the pyramid of the moon in South America.
Especially those chinese pyramids.




www.earthquest.co.uk...
edit on 18-12-2012 by kdog1982 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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Interesting. I never really pay much attention to this stuff. But I had a UFO encounter 2 years ago, I used stellarium to figure out the direction it went (it accelerated to incomprehensible speeds and dissapeared into the background of space). The area of space that I saw it go to was pretty much where Rigel Kent is. I thought it an odd coincidence



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 09:32 PM
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very interesting stuff-

another interesting synchronicity regarding the connection between these two great civilizations can be found in the Mayan Long Count:

this current cycle, in which the 13th Baktun is said to end this friday (
) began in 3114 BCE.

Upper & Lower Egypt where thought to be unified in ~3100 BCE by a fellow named Narmer (or Menes).

it seems an interesting correlation of timing... combine that with the similar stylistic hieroglyphic writing style and a penchant for pyramids, then through in the OPs very interesting theories, and there seems to be a valid notion to some sort of interconnection between the two civilizations.

just my 2 cents.

www.cemml.colostate.edu...
en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 18-12-2012 by mythos because: add links so folk don't think i'm just makin' this s!!t up.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by Kantzveldt
 


Bookmarking for later (too bust at work for now).

Kantz, you know I love your work.

With Prometheus, Ridley Scott has taken so many ideas from ancient lore. I'll discuss more later.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 11:45 PM
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Very interesting your hypothesis.
I have linked these two cultures together also in different ways
and the information that keeps coming forth from inquisitive minds
such as yours is most astounding.

Your findings helps with proving my own beliefs.

Thank you for thinkig outside of the box and koudos
for not being caught up in the paradigm.
I encourage your quest!



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:47 AM
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Very interesting connection between the Egyptians and the Maya. Check this YouTube video out about a Egyptian and Inca connection. It will greatly reinforce your Egyptian, Maya connection. Both east and west of the very ancient world were a united civilization.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 03:48 AM
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Does this topic somehow relate to the Black Pyramid mentioned in this video?

Just curious...


"This is a stone pyramid about ten inches high. It was found in the 1980s in the jungles of Ecuador, and this and other artifacts are referred to as La Mana artifacts.

Five symbols engraved into the base of the pyramid stone in "Pre-Sanskrit" language:

"The Son Of The Creator Comes From Here ..."

The inlaid dots, coincide with the constellation of Orion.

- Why is the exact same 13-stepped pyramid with the all-seeing eye all over the world, but always lacks the reference to "The Son Of The Creator"? From, presumably, Orion? Hello?

The Black Pyramid Of The Son Of The Creator



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 07:12 AM
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reply to post by mythos
 



There are a whole lot of important cultural developments happening worldwide at the start of that era, the begining of the bronze age, historians have tended to use the date of 3,200 BC as a rounded approximation figure for events of that era, i googled them all once and there was seemingly more happened on that date than any other in history


As can be seen in the OP, when the principle of Earth, sky, water was established, the division of the sky was according to five, were the circa 5,200 year periodic is a fifth of the greater cycle, the era of the five suns.


I Have looked for the tradition of the Five Suns in Egypt...







reply to post by punkinworks10
 



Thanks for the article, i have looked at dispersal from the core Neolithic area, this greater picture somewhat outside of my scope, but interesting.



reply to post by LightAssassin
 



Yes lots of things, we mustn't overlook the reviving from within the sarcophogus like stasis chambers...






reply to post by Murgatroid
 



I suspect those are hoax artifacts, and really quite uneccesary as mainstream academia accepts the interest of the Maya in Orion as an important aspect of their creation mythos.


edit on 19-12-2012 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by Kantzveldt
 


Originally posted by Kantzveldt
I suspect those are hoax artifacts, and really quite uneccesary as mainstream academia accepts the interest of the Maya in Orion as an important aspect of their creation mythos.

Hoax? Not a chance...

Cover-up maybe, but HOAX? NO...

The difference between a hoax and a cover-up is easy to spot in this case.

Clearly the reference to "son of God" does not fit into the NWO agenda so naturally it is labelled as a "hoax".

Mainstream academia has been taken over just like everything else has.

Just another mind control tool used against the masses.

They have just as much credibility as the mainstream media and MORE influence in fact.

I don't believe a WORD they say anymore.


“the biggest cover-up in the history of mankind is the history of mankind itself”


"Throughout recorded history, the Illuminati has successfully withheld from humankind major aspects of history and science in order to subjugate the masses"

By manipulating the souls evolving on earth, the Illuminati have deliberately suppressed the spiritual facts of life, not to mention liberating technologies, which could bring plenitude to all.

Secrets of Suppressed Science and History


“There are two histories: official history, lying, and then secret history, where you find the real causes of events.” ~ Honoré de Balzac


"The model of human prehistory built-up by scholars over the past two centuries is sadly and completely wrong, and a deliberate tool of disinformation and mind control. ...they demonstrate a systematic destruction of proofs that show another reality than that the official story. Falsifications and even destruction of such proofs has been common for more than two hundred years." LINK


"...the Illuminati eventually controlled the science departments in all colleges and institutions of higher learning. The plan was to stifle scientific knowledge and then twist what was left to fit the science they wanted the people to believe. They accomplished this by adopting new rules in regards to scientific research.

Secret Societies - Who Controls Knowledge?








edit on 19-12-2012 by Murgatroid because: I felt like it..



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by Kantzveldt
I'll outline here what seems to me a very great mystery, arguably THE greatest, it concerns correspondence between Mayan and Old Kingdom Egyptian creation myth


What correlation would this be?

Depending on the time period --AND the location-- the Egyptians believed that
* the universe was created from a self-created deity (Atum)
* the world emerged from a lifeless sea
* Eight deities created the universe
...etc
en.wikipedia.org...

The Maya believed that the earth was created by the wind: en.wikipedia.org...

Also, I'm familiar enough with Egyptian artifacts to be able to read some of the texts. I don't see anything about the birds in the image that you posted that's similar to what the Egyptians used.

I have a lot of reference books full of things the ancient Egyptians wrote and I've looked at some of the Mayan texts. I don't see any connection, particularly 1,000 plus years after the fact.



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 05:47 AM
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reply to post by Byrd
 




What correlation would this be?

Depending on the time period --AND the location-- the Egyptians believed that
* the universe was created from a self-created deity (Atum)
* the world emerged from a lifeless sea
* Eight deities created the universe
...etc



The question you have overlooked, as has the Wiki page you referenced, is who created the primordial mound of first creation from which Atum-Ptah-Ra et al emerged, it is only that preliminary stage with which i have concerned myself in the OP, and i did mention this is entirely outside the scope of the general blurb...


So as i outlined, it is Sokar, the God of the deepest, darkest depths (as evidenced in his centrality within the Duat), that makes first emergance from the primordial waters and creates the mound of creation, with which he sails around the skies on the Henu barque.

To realise this role of Sokar, one needs to extrapolate him from his Osiris association in the pyramid texts, coffin texts and New Kingdom funerary texts, to consider his unique functions.


The relationship of the Mastaba to this mound of first creation and later the pyramids i'm sure you're aware of, maybe also that the Old Kingdom necropoli would be associated with a lake off the greater river from which the primordial mound emerged, Sokar had association not only with the mound but also the lake from which it was considered to emerge from;



Faulkner: A ‘ferryman’ text
O Kherty of Nezat, ferryman of the ‘Ikht-bark which Khnum made, bring me this, for I am Sokar of Rostau
(r.st3.w), I am bound for the place where dwells Sokar who presides over Pdw-s.


www.cintronics.com...

Pdw-s there relates to the Lake of Abusir, the locale of the Royal Necropolis at the time of the pyramid texts.



There are two sources of textual references to the Abusir lake. The earliest reference
occurs in utterance 610 (§1712) of the Pyramid Texts as a title or epithet of Sokar, “Sokar who presides over the Pdw-š” (Faulkner 1969, 253), where Pdw- š is interpreted as the “lake of Abusir” (Gaballa and Kitchen 1969, 5, n.6). Secondly, New Kingdom and Late period texts cite toponyms from the Memphite Necropolis in association with the sanctuary of Sokar, which is most likely to have been at Saqqara
(Posner-Kriéger 1976, 71, n.1). Thus, the notion of a lake at Abusir was derived from the translation of the title or epithet of the god Sokar


pia-journal.co.uk...




Also, I'm familiar enough with Egyptian artifacts to be able to read some of the texts. I don't see anything about the birds in the image that you posted that's similar to what the Egyptians used.



I'll always accept that observed stylistic correlations are somewhat in the eye of the beholder,but here's the comparison i was making, the Mayan motifs involving a falcon




were the falcon was associated with Itzamna and seen as a bird associated with night and day, the passing of time, and the Egyptian Horus falcon as seen on the Horus name serekhs of the first Dynasties, were Horus was the falcon that ruled by day and Sokar the falcon that ruled by night.





You'll also see on those the triple palace facade related to the principle of establishment, but like i said in the eye of the beholder.



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:00 AM
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reply to post by Kantzveldt
 


It is all about religious observation of the heavens. Those guys were the scientists of their time. Natural scientists. Philosophers and mathematicians. They knew the speed of light and the measurements of the Sun, Moon and Earth. Even the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, references the speed of light accurately. By the time you understand these things you are supposed to be a mature human who has reverence for the Creation. Sadly, most just become movie directors and stock brokers.



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 06:01 AM
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reply to post by XXX777
 


And this is a very cool thread. Kudos to you!



posted on Dec, 20 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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To further make the point that the movie Prometheus was directly concerned with this tradition of the Mayan and Egyptians that Orion was the place of first creation, here are a couple of stills i took direct from the movie, the first the rock art drawing showing the configuration all around the world, and then an actual image of that star configuration as they had identified it, only briefly seen, but should look sort of familiar...











reply to post by XXX777
 



I wouldn't mind being a movie director, to be honest...
edit on 20-12-2012 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



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